Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

it is almost too expensive, I agree that it's not really comparable to the contemptor for the points. but if you're filling out a list they might be worth it. I probably won't give them the melta instead of the stubber.

They might be worth it in an all knight list.

What a wasted opportunity. GW really doesn’t want to sell them.

Sounds like bad rules to me, I will be buying zero boxes.

changemod wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0vXDp6SNOUo

227 points with heavy stubber, 240 with Melta.

So pretty bad really. If you compare to a contemptor dread you're faster and have D3 shots on your melta weapon, but worse skills and an invulnerable that stops working in melee.

A solid 50-60 points overcosted.

Kind of have to laugh at that point cost. People in various tactica threads were saying it wouldn't be worth it at 140-160. I think those might have been unrealistic expectations, but oh boy 240 points is a bit more than people were hoping for.

Seems like it's about 20-30 pts overpriced.

That along with the "meh" impression I got from the leaked Necron beta-dex has really killed Forgebane for me.

Maybe the rules will be so bad that they will be ebay cheap and I can convert them to counts-as some unit that isn't completely garbage.

Is it possible to have an Imperial Knight (regular, pick one of the 5 variants in the Warden box) + 2 Armigers in a 1000 point game?

If Armigers are 240 points at most right now..yes. A non-crusader knight is under 500 points in most cases.

 ph34r wrote:
Maybe the rules will be so bad that they will be ebay cheap and I can convert them to counts-as some unit that isn't completely garbage.

You hold on to that dream for both of us, m'kay?

Well, at least you can take a Knightly host to a 1000 point game?

I think the price of the armigers is partially due to the over-costed melta weapons. A standard multi-melta is 27 points. Based on the 240 price tag, a d3 variant for the armiger seems to cost two of those plus extra for the range. Assuming the armiger thermal spear has the same price increase as a multi-melta compared to a melta gun, it would cost about 32 points for one shot.

Using similar unit costs, assuming the armiger has the same base cost as a contemptor, and using a cost strategy similar to current GW designer 'standards;' base cost 98 + a dread ccw 40 + a multi melta variant with better range 32 + an extra shot (d3 average) 32 + a melta gun 17; would bring the cost to 219 for the armiger.

So, even using an equivalent pricing strategy it's 20 points too high.

That's assuming the base cost is equivalent to the contemptor. Comparing the two, the armiger has +5 movement and two extra wounds. The comtemptor has +1 WS/BS/Str and an invulnerable save that works in combat. There are some trade-offs, but I think most people would choose the contemptor bonuses over the armiger. So I think it's safe to claim the base cost of the armiger is too high.

A competitive armiger price against other melta units would be about 195-205. A good price would be in the 180-190 range if melta wasn't generally over-cost. But 140-160 would be ridiculously cheap compared to any other dreadnought type unit.

Well that solves my problem of wanting to purchase Forgebane at least. I'll just wait until the Armigers are worth fielding.

It's a shame that they're that expensive in points, especially seeing as there's two in the box.

That's either a lot of reshuffling to fit them in my already expensive AdMech army or a constant up in points for games.

Still gonna get a box though, even if they're just for painting and the occasional bigger game on my side.

Well I’ve pre ordered, but for the Necron stuff and Ad Mech character.
All the madness on the Armigers and they’ll probably be the things I’ll never use.

Maybe keep one to paint, and sell the other

And the Necron boxes are flooding the bitz market.

61% off? Don't mind if I do!

AHAHAHA!

It's ~30 points over a Redemptor for -1W, but gaining a 5++, almost doubling movement, D3, 30" Str. 8, AP -4, D6 Damage shooter vs. D6, 36", AP-4 D1 shooter (d2 overcharge)? And 3 of them give you 3CP for a Super Heavy Bat. instead of 1 CP for a spearhead? Sounds like a good deal to me ..

Sunny Side Up wrote:
It's ~30 points over a Redemptor for -1W, but gaining a 5++, almost doubling movement, D3, 30" Str. 8, AP -4, D6 Damage shooter vs. D6, 36", AP-4 D1 shooter (d2 overcharge)? And 3 of them give you 3CP for a Super Heavy Bat. instead of 1 CP for a spearhead? Sounds like a good deal to me ..

The issue being that we're comparing it to a contemptor, which is A: actually a good dreadnought and B: A more direct match to what the Armiger does.

That aside, I've not changed my decision to buy two sets of Forgebane in the slightest: With a 75% online discount I'm paying only fractionally more than I would for the lychguard/immortals/wraiths alone at a GW, plus I get some crypteks, some extra Rangers, bodies for my Hoplites I'd have had to buy regardless, two Armigers and a pile of conversion parts consisting of the sprues of two dominuses and two Armigers.

Good deal.

They’re pretty useful in their lists though.

Whilst Soup is of course a thing, if you want to run pure Knights, or assuming they’re an addition to the Codex, Adeptus Mechanicus, they’re damned useful.

Me, I see them as a solid way to deal with Transports and their contents, a way to offset the lack of speed or models in Adeptus Mechanicus and Knight armies respectively.

With a 15” half range and 14” move, with careful set up they should prove a more or less immediate threat to enemy armour, if not wrecking it completely, at least doing solid enough damage that other units can plink away the last Wounds.

In my Ad Mech, reckon I’d buddy them up with the Dragoons for flank duties. Armiger brings the Dakka for armour, Dragoons deal with infantry blobs. Between them, they ought to prove a decent enough distraction, and they’re nippy enough to move on should their flank be cleared, and bother other stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
It's ~30 points over a Redemptor for -1W, but gaining a 5++, almost doubling movement, D3, 30" Str. 8, AP -4, D6 Damage shooter vs. D6, 36", AP-4 D1 shooter (d2 overcharge)? And 3 of them give you 3CP for a Super Heavy Bat. instead of 1 CP for a spearhead? Sounds like a good deal to me ..

The issue being that we're comparing it to a contemptor, which is A: actually a good dreadnought and B: A more direct match to what the Armiger does.

That aside, I've not changed my decision to buy two sets of Forgebane in the slightest: With a 75% online discount I'm paying only fractionally more than I would for the lychguard/immortals/wraiths alone at a GW, plus I get some crypteks, some extra Rangers, bodies for my Hoplites I'd have had to buy regardless, two Armigers and a pile of conversion parts consisting of the sprues of two dominuses and two Armigers.

Good deal.

75% discount?

75% of retail, sorry.

Triple Helix do that within the UK.

Ahh, gotcha!

Was wondering if I’d missed something

Currently focussed on my Custards, but tempted by the Armigers!

Well, this is exactly what I feared when I saw the stats. They have LoW points but not LoW stats.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And the Necron boxes are flooding the bitz market.

61% off? Don't mind if I do!

AHAHAHA!

Where’s that. I’m not seeing them cheaper at all really..

Whelp that's two boxes on order. But with plenty of other "projects" on the go I think they will probably get stacked in the pile of shame until the IK Codex arrives.

So far looks like the Beta leak is shaping up. A few changes didn't go through, wraiths seem to still be 38pts but now ap -2 but still damage 1. Crypteks are 70pts before wargear. I hope the staff of light going down to 10pts stays as otherwise still a damn expensive hq.

Armigers are going for near £75 the pair.. crazy.

I’m definitely gonna shift one at £30 to make me feel better about buying this box when I shouldn’t..


I’m wondering whether the Lych/Praet box options will fit on the Immortal bodies.

I used all the Immortal/Deathmarks options from 2 boxes of 5 to make 30 models using Warrior bodies I had spare.
It was a great save!

Whilst the box is really good deal, I still probably want to wait till I know whether the Armigers will have other weapon options in their standalone box. I don't want to hunt the additional weapons from bitsellers at crazy prices like I had to do with my big knight.

 Kurgash wrote:
So far looks like the Beta leak is shaping up. A few changes didn't go through

Any sign of the other Necron points?
(particularly Lychguard. If Beta Codex is accurate, they're going to be bottom of the list units, so really hoping they do something to make them more playable)

 Kurgash wrote:
So far looks like the Beta leak is shaping up. A few changes didn't go through, wraiths seem to still be 38pts but now ap -2 but still damage 1. Crypteks are 70pts before wargear. I hope the staff of light going down to 10pts stays as otherwise still a damn expensive hq.

Staff of Light might be 18pts in Forgebane. It's a bit blurry but this looks like 18 to me:
https://youtu.be/XQj_Q5C2CUQ?t=449

Could be 18 or 10 so let's hope for 10...

definitely 18