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Cineworld has just mothballed rather than closed completely (although that could still come).

Does anyone know, had they filmed the footage for the second half of Dune? That’s quite common these days, as a significant chunk of production (50%+?) is in editing and post production. Would be interesting if they have, because you could get both halves released in short order next year.

They didn't film the second half of the book, but they did do "additional shooting" that wrapped up in august. This additional stuff was originally meant to be filmed right around when coronavirus became a thing. I kinda wish they would take a leap of faith and film the second half starting next year. But I doubt they will, it's just wishful thinking. It'll probably be 3-4 years before we see a part 2, assuming this first movie doesn't lose a ton of money.

The second half of the book is shorter, but it covers a greater span of time and events within it are sped up. There's a lot of "training montage" inter spaced with major events. In the Lynch film they even sped up this segment and you really feel it; there's ample space to show Fremen starting their rebellion, fighting back and starting to really make an impact all without feeling like you're padding things out. If anything it could, if well written, add depth to a segment of the book that is actually lacking.

Plus there's a slew of major epic battles and events. Just the end battle alone can be a major chunk of time.

The story of Tenet tells us why all these films are being delayed.....

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/tenet-box-office-warner-bros-christopher-nolan-1234792129/

Christopher Nolan’s “Tenet” willed itself past the $300 million mark globally this weekend even as the overall domestic box office appeared to be on the verge of collapse.

I'm totally fine with them delaying movies until a time where they're more profitable for them as long as they're not lobbying for a special handout from taxpayers for such a decidedly nonessential industry. The pandemic and its consequences aren't under the control of the movie industry but choosing to make no money now instead of just significantly less money in return for potentially more money later definitely is a choice.


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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

If they pad it out like the Hobbit, maybe we’ll find out that Paul’s first child was also preborn, and just noped right out of that Golden Path business. We can have a Peter Jackson scene where he and a Sardaukar just stare at each other for five minutes. Then Chani pole-vaults I to the center of a ring of soldiers trained in the Waiting-your-turn Way for a slow-mo, sad-music wire-fu beat down.

Oooo... Maybe they can incorporate a buding romance between a helmeted nameless Sardaukar and a Fremen who meet in battle but instantly fall in love instead! Kind of like that fan favorite 40k romance for the ages between an eldar warlock and Vindicare.

That makes too much sense. When they finally bring their faces close for that will-they-kiss tension, the camera needs to pan away to the preborn baby making the “excellent” hand gesture.


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Ooh, and they can give Duncan Idaho a musical number about The Best Things in Life. Things like, you can only die once. Never outliving one’s purpose. Values never change.

They can sneak in some Buffy lyrics, because why not?

“...Knowing that it ends. Well, that depends. On if they let you goooooo...”

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Ooh, and they can give Duncan Idaho a musical number about The Best Things in Life.

Only if they combine it with a Dirty Dancing style shield practice scene with Paul. I think the singing in the rain musical number by him later in Fremen garb just doesn't fit the lore though.

It would have fit the end of the Lynch film....

Give him a “Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious” song made entirely of Fremen and Bene Gesserit words. Bonus points if they find a rhyme for “chaumurky”.


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The Dirty Dancing number needs to segue into Flashdance’s “he’s a maniac”.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Give him a “Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious” song made entirely of Fremen and Bene Gesserit words. Bonus points if they find a rhyme for “chaumurky”.

If that was a power word, it would crack the planet's crust upon its first utterance.

The Dirty Dancing number needs to segue into Flashdance’s “he’s a maniac”.

I dunno. That sounds more like a Harkonnen number.


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 Easy E wrote:
It would have fit the end of the Lynch film....

Hollywood needs to mine threads like this for new content. They're missing out on billions I tell you... billions!!!

And with that I'll stop with the jokes even though this is all we'll likely have for most of the next 6 months regarding this film.

 warboss wrote:
I'm totally fine with them delaying movies until a time where they're more profitable for them as long as they're not lobbying for a special handout from taxpayers for such a decidedly nonessential industry. The pandemic and its consequences aren't under the control of the movie industry but choosing to make no money now instead of just significantly less money in return for potentially more money later definitely is a choice.

That is all true, although I was really looking forward to this picture and am pretty bummed about it. I assumed because The Invisible Man made a tidy profit by going straight to VOD then other movies would follow - but that's a bit naive, the budget for Invisible Man was only* $7 million. Your point is a good one; the bottom line has to make sense. Still a shame though when it gets in the way of creative people getting a chance to share their work, but that's a fairly old problem.

Absolutely. I think they as producers, stars as "talents", and we as customers need to adjust our own expectations for budgets including effects and salaries in this "new normal" until things rebound (if they ever do). I don't personally believe we'll ever get back to pre-COVID box office totals during the heyday of the MCU and it's not entirely the fault of the pandemic. I think the lockdown just accelerated the timetable with a switch to more home viewing via streaming. At least for me, though, there will always be a place in my heart for the cinema experience but I was year on year declining in my total number of films seen for the past decade (except for one outlier year where I had the Moviepass service). I fully admit though that a large part of that might be my own aging and may not translate to other demographics though.

 Easy E wrote:
The story of Tenet tells us why all these films are being delayed.....

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/tenet-box-office-warner-bros-christopher-nolan-1234792129/

Christopher Nolan’s “Tenet” willed itself past the $300 million mark globally this weekend even as the overall domestic box office appeared to be on the verge of collapse.

Theaters are screwed. They've done everything they can to make theaters safe -- and honestly probably HAVE mitigated a lot of the risk. But people just don't trust the virus or each other. There's nothing more that industry can do if people just don't trust the environment. And no studio is going to release blockbusters that need theater audiences to turn their expected profits.

 warboss wrote:
Absolutely. I think they as producers, stars as "talents", and we as customers need to adjust our own expectations for budgets including effects and salaries in this "new normal" until things rebound (if they ever do). I don't personally believe we'll ever get back to pre-COVID box office totals during the heyday of the MCU and it's not entirely the fault of the pandemic. I think the lockdown just accelerated the timetable with a switch to more home viewing via streaming. At least for me, though, there will always be a place in my heart for the cinema experience but I was year on year declining in my total number of films seen for the past decade (except for one outlier year where I had the Moviepass service). I fully admit though that a large part of that might be my own aging and may not translate to other demographics though.

All good points. Before quarantine I was finding theater going to be cost-prohibitive, and only made the effort for big fun movies. I agree that expectations have to be hedged; historically, when studios depend more and more on blockbusters to break even they eventually overextend themselves. The trick as I (a decidedly non-expert) see it is to release higher quality, lower budget movies. VOD can be hugely profitable; Invisible Man was a small character-driven horror movie that grossed $135 million. I know that's probably chump change for the industry, but in a world where a third of all humans are chronically malnourished, that's a hell of a lot of money. The challenge is probably finding the right price point where more people won't just pirate it, I suppose. I imagine that very soon movie theaters will all be art theaters, showing classing movies and indie art films that aren't available elsewhere.

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
All good points. Before quarantine I was finding theater going to be cost-prohibitive, and only made the effort for big fun movies. I agree that expectations have to be hedged; historically, when studios depend more and more on blockbusters to break even they eventually overextend themselves. The trick as I (a decidedly non-expert) see it is to release higher quality, lower budget movies. VOD can be hugely profitable; Invisible Man was a small character-driven horror movie that grossed $135 million. I know that's probably chump change for the industry, but in a world where a third of all humans are chronically malnourished, that's a hell of a lot of money. The challenge is probably finding the right price point where more people won't just pirate it, I suppose. I imagine that very soon movie theaters will all be art theaters, showing classing movies and indie art films that aren't available elsewhere.

I agree. The two films that surprised me the most when I had the moviepass and was going every week or two to the theater (something that I hadn't done since my early 20's) were relatively low budget (Upgrade and Peppermint). I enjoyed those two relatively simple and unpretentious movies more than I did half the marvel and star wars blockbusters that both preceded and followed them. I'm not saying that those were perfect movies by any stretch (they were just good, not even great... just plain good) but they were better than films that cost 5x their budget. Honestly I don't know if they were technically profitable though and will have to look them up though but they surprised me the most. Heck, with streaming scifi shows being made for $8+ million per episode and looking good visually (even if the acting and script are frequently gak... cough *Picard* cough *STD* cough), I'd be fine with something that was 50% higher budget than a two hour version of that. Admittedly the math isn't that simple and the costs of things like sets are amoratized over several seasons so the relative cost for a feature film would be higher blah blah blah but my point stands. Keep marketing budgets and actor salaries reasonable upfront (with a higher backend if the movie exceeds expectations) or feth them and hire relative unknowns with less of an ego/expectation instead so that a scifi movie (my favorite genre) with a budget of $50mil ($600mil+ worldwide gross) is the new "blockbuster" (like the first Deadpool a few years ago).

Edit: According to IMDB

Peppermint: $25mil budget/$54 mil worldwide gross
Upgrade: $5mil budget/$17mil worldwide gross

Hardly impressive numbers but, using a 2.5x ratio, Upgrade was technically profitable before homevideo/streaming income.

 warboss wrote:

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
All good points. Before quarantine I was finding theater going to be cost-prohibitive, and only made the effort for big fun movies. I agree that expectations have to be hedged; historically, when studios depend more and more on blockbusters to break even they eventually overextend themselves. The trick as I (a decidedly non-expert) see it is to release higher quality, lower budget movies. VOD can be hugely profitable; Invisible Man was a small character-driven horror movie that grossed $135 million. I know that's probably chump change for the industry, but in a world where a third of all humans are chronically malnourished, that's a hell of a lot of money. The challenge is probably finding the right price point where more people won't just pirate it, I suppose. I imagine that very soon movie theaters will all be art theaters, showing classing movies and indie art films that aren't available elsewhere.

I agree. The two films that surprised me the most when I had the moviepass and was going every week or two to the theater (something that I hadn't done since my early 20's) were relatively low budget (Upgrade and Peppermint). I enjoyed those two relatively simple and unpretentious movies more than I did half the marvel and star wars blockbusters that both preceded and followed them. I'm not saying that those were perfect movies by any stretch (they were just good, not even great... just plain good) but they were better than films that cost 5x their budget. Honestly I don't know if they were technically profitable though and will have to look them up though but they surprised me the most. Heck, with streaming scifi shows being made for $8+ million per episode and looking good visually (even if the acting and script are frequently gak... cough *Picard* cough *STD* cough), I'd be fine with something that was 50% higher budget than a two hour version of that. Admittedly the math isn't that simple and the costs of things like sets are amoratized over several seasons so the relative cost for a feature film would be higher blah blah blah but my point stands. Keep marketing budgets and actor salaries reasonable upfront (with a higher backend if the movie exceeds expectations) or feth them and hire relative unknowns with less of an ego/expectation instead so that a scifi movie (my favorite genre) with a budget of $50mil ($600mil+ worldwide gross) is the new "blockbuster" (like the first Deadpool a few years ago).

Edit: According to IMDB

Peppermint: $25mil budget/$54 mil worldwide gross
Upgrade: $5mil budget/$17mil worldwide gross

Hardly impressive numbers but, using a 2.5x ratio, Upgrade was technically profitable before homevideo/streaming income.

Sounds like we got to get you into the studio system. I think Warboss Productions could quickly become the mark of quality!

In other news, having just finished re-reading Dune I'm back onto Dune Messiah. I posted a few pages ago that it was a rough read for me in high school and I didn't end up enjoying it. Fast forward to now and it's quite the reverse, but I'm starting to feel like Dune Messiah should have been the last act of Dune. One of the things that I really like in the series is how it turns the idea of classical heroism on its head, with Paul basically going from Skywalker to Vader. That's such an important turn and sets the tone for the rest of the series, which I think comes to a head in a great way in book four. Dune without Dune Messiah lets Paul off the hook a little bit, I think.

There are some books that are a tough read the first time you go through them. Gardens of the Moon - the first book in Malazan book of the Fallen - is a really great example. First time isn't impossible, but there's a lot of world terminology and theories and ideas that don't get fully explored until later in the book - some not until a book or two later. So the first time you go through it there's a lot of mysterious things happening that it can be hard to see the story for the lore and setting.

Second time is a breeze because you've a vague to good understanding of the different concepts being thrown at you which lets you far more easily focus on the story and characters. It makes for, in my view, an enjoyable first and second read of the book.

I probably wouldn’t have finished* Dune Messiah without massive spoilers and moral support from the YouTube channel Quinn’s Ideas. His timeline of Dune gave me enough cheese at the end to make the maze worthwhile. Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune are both great, but require one to get through Dune Messiah first.

*I enjoyed a lot of the book for what it was, especially all the oblique conversations loaded with jargon, but was still running out of momentum due to story and character-related issues.

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:

Sounds like we got to get you into the studio system. I think Warboss Productions could quickly become the mark of quality!

My last (and only!) film experience was making Lego stop motion short films (<1 min) for school projects in the 1980's when my uncle would let me borrow his gigantic VHS camcorder. If ever I do break into the industry, I promise to make the best films ever at my budget of $5.00 USD!

I think you’re onto something with the reliance of cinemas on blockbuster “event“ films. We have a local independent cinema that does a lot of art house stuff, foreign films and also does themed events (sci-fi marathons, Halloween horror all-nighters, etc.) in addition to the latest films (which it generally shows a few weeks after mainstream release, which is great if you miss something). I’m really hoping they can survive this mess, but also I think it shows the other things you can do with a cinema.

I’ve long said that I wish there were more re-releases of classic films; through that place I’ve been fortunate enough to see Alien, Blade Runner, Top Gun and 2001 on the big screen, all of which were originally released well before I was of cinema going age (or born). I’d love to see a theatrical release of the LoTR special editions and big screen versions of some “big” TV (Band of Brothers, etc.) A season pass to a weekly showing of BoB could be a great way to get people in the screens and seeing what else is on offer.

Of course this requires the damn virus to go away, so that people can relax on an evening out...

 Easy E wrote:
It would have fit the end of the Lynch film....

It depends if that would have included a dwarf dancing in reverse to slow jazz..

Finished Dune Messiah last night, very happy that I decided to go back and revisit it; there's a lot of depth that rewards re-reading. About to start Children of Dune. I never ended up watching the mini-series, I think I'll check it out after I read the book.

Honestly the delay of the film more or less sucked the wind out of me in terms of my interest in anything Dune related. I'm going to have to just put it all in the back of my head until at least next summer and just forget about it. It sucks, and I knew it was coming but i've gotta put all that hype energy somewhere else.

I'm consoling myself with the thought that at least I'll get a chance to see it in the cinema if it is released next year, whereas there would have been no chance if it came out now.

Reading my way through the books again in the meantime (although agree it's going to be impossible to maintain the emotional intensity )

It's a better choice in the long run, return on investment is questionable now, but if they hold off and release just when people are back to feeling safe in crowds it could exceed even rosy expectations.

Apparently this movie is now due to release on HBO max streaming simultaneously with it's theatrical release in october 2021. I'm not sure how well that will turn out in terms of $. Even though this is their plan i'm not sure it will hold. They're doing the same thing with WW1984 and we'll have to see how that turns out.

So...simulflow?

It’s looking more and more unlikely that the studio will fund the second half of the story.

Darn it!

Well, there go the profits.

I was looking forward to seeing it in the cinema, whenever that happened, but I guess I'll just have to sit and wait for Netflix to get it. Maybe I should get a bigger TV for the occasion...

It's not like I ever go to the cinema to watch films anymore, the last thing that I watched was, coincidentally, Bladerunner. Great film, just doomed to not make much money; I figured that Dune was going to be in the same category, because it's a bit niche, but hopefully it would have done well enough for part 2 to get made.

Looks like we can kiss that goodbye

 Thargrim wrote:
Apparently this movie is now due to release on HBO max streaming simultaneously with it's theatrical release in october 2021. I'm not sure how well that will turn out in terms of $. Even though this is their plan i'm not sure it will hold. They're doing the same thing with WW1984 and we'll have to see how that turns out.

yes although isn't Wonder Woman coming out on Christmas Day?

Hopefully by October 2021 the worst of the virus will be behind us and cinemas will be busier once more.

And I don't know how much HBO Max means to people outside of the US?

I wonder why movie studios are trying to kill movie theatres? Do they cut into the bottom line too much?