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The Screen Junkies video is interesting, right up until Roth repeats that vacuous canard that "it's impossible to please the fans".

No. Just, no. It really isn't. There is - and always has been - a happy medium between JJ's "if you plot this movie at less than 50mph then the cinema will explode!" memberberryfests, and Rian's petulant, pretentious film student shtick. A happy medium where new material can be just that - new, its own thing - without actively pissing on what came before.

Rogue One wasn't perfect, but it was good, and got a decent reception. Solo wasn't perfect, but it was decent enough, and once the backlash from TLJ had passed and people were giving it a shot on its own merits, it was broadly acknowledged as such. Just about everyone except the most misanthropic of 4chan trolls seems to love The Mandalorian.

The problems with the Sequels are not inherent to Star Wars, and "you can't please everyone" only works to deflect criticism up to a certain point, one looooong passed for Disney's attempt to add to the tale of the Skywalkers.

Screen junkies was also one of the (many) professional media outlets that repeatedly gak on fans unhappy with TLJ fwiw.

 warboss wrote:
Screen junkies was also one of the (many) professional media outlets that repeatedly gak on fans unhappy with TLJ fwiw.

They also appear to be among the many media outlets that are now striking a much more conciliatory tone. Hopefully that turns out to be the result of a bit of genuine reflection on the part of pro-critics rather than a cynical backpeddle.

In general though, I thought they were pretty fair - I've not seen the film yet, but it's been so thoroughly spoiled that's not much of an issue - and I suspect I'll end up in a similar end state to Dan though for slightly different reasons; I'll almost certainly be among the cohort who prefer it to TLJ, and even appreciate the fact that there are apparently a lot of retcons, re-explanations, and outright repudiations of that film, but I don't expect to experience any real joy or much of anything beyond some momentary exhilaration, much as with TFA. Which is where I'd depart from Dan - he laments the missed opportunity of a RoS that followed on from TLJ, whereas I lament the missed opportunity of the whole trilogy including TFA.

 Yodhrin wrote:
and even appreciate the fact that there are apparently a lot of retcons, re-explanations, and outright repudiations of that film, but I don't expect to experience any real joy or much of anything beyond some momentary exhilaration, much as with TFA. Which is where I'd depart from Dan - he laments the missed opportunity of a RoS that followed on from TLJ, whereas I lament the missed opportunity of the whole trilogy including TFA.

Lots of monkeying around at work today, claiming to have the high ground . Apparently someone is seeing it at midnight, others in the morning or even going as far as taking the day off unpaid. Totally pumped for the 4DX showing tomorrow...

So glad this has been released so close to Chrimbo because I'm 40 on New Years Eve and will probably see it again on the day as a proper hurrah not only to four decades of being a fan, but also the end of the Skywalker saga itself. Its been emotional, as Vinne Jones would say.

For better or worse, I wish you all a happy trip to the pictures and...MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!

SamusDrake wrote:


So glad this has been released so close to Chrimbo because I'm 40 on New Years Eve and will probably see it again on the day as a proper hurrah not only to four decades of being a fan, but also the end of the Skywalker saga itself. Its been emotional, as Vinne Jones would say.

The trend seems to be that all of the Access Media lice have realized that this might be the last big Star Wars movie for a while, and now- there's not much reason to stay leashed. After all, it's not like any of these sycophantic parasites had any real dignity to start with, but now- they might be trying to salvage that, as anyone from their audience with the mental capacity to wipe their own ass without getting feces in their mouth has abandoned them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait, what?

Has there been a thread collision?

No, you're just going to find people disliking something you like. You'll have to get over that.

 Yodhrin wrote:
The Screen Junkies video is interesting, right up until Roth repeats that vacuous canard that "it's impossible to please the fans".....

I haven't watched the Screen Junkies video (staying away from reviews until after I see it on Sunday) but I actually think that in this specific case, that might be right, simply because TLJ was so divisive. If JJ chose to stay too close to RJ's vision, those who hated TLJ would complain. If he veers too far from what RJ set up, those who loved TLJ complain. While there's a middle ground, finding it would be like nailing jelly to a tree.

Mate of mine who hated TLJ says this one is his favourite of the sequel trilogy, for what that's worth.

Wow wow wow
I wasn't expecting anything, seeing as the 8th was such an insult to SW, and I was still disappointed. At least it retcon the 8th so much it confirms it's really a bad movie, objectively and according to the 9th. But there is nothing to retcon the 9th :(
Every single scene, every single character, is an insult to SW. They really went off the beam with this one.
The 7th is definitely the best of the last trilogy because even if it's a bad copy, it's still a copy of the 4th.

 Yodhrin wrote:
They also appear to be among the many media outlets that are now striking a much more conciliatory tone. Hopefully that turns out to be the result of a bit of genuine reflection on the part of pro-critics rather than a cynical backpeddle.

I'd guess it's more of the latter. Given that Disney has been letting their own employees give less than flattering opinions on TLJ now two years after the fact (and after two years of letting other employees act almost as bad as the worst fans), I think the media outlets just sense the change in wind direction and don't fear possible reprecussions. That's just general speculation on my part though as I don't plan on frequenting those media outlets myself to see. I don't have much power other than my clicks and a couple bucks to spend (a tiny drop in the buckets of the whole potential audience) but I won't throw that away either short of an actual apology.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
No, you're just going to find people disliking something you like. You'll have to get over that.

 insaniak wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
The Screen Junkies video is interesting, right up until Roth repeats that vacuous canard that "it's impossible to please the fans".....

I haven't watched the Screen Junkies video (staying away from reviews until after I see it on Sunday) but I actually think that in this specific case, that might be right, simply because TLJ was so divisive. If JJ chose to stay too close to RJ's vision, those who hated TLJ would complain. If he veers too far from what RJ set up, those who loved TLJ complain. While there's a middle ground, finding it would be like nailing jelly to a tree.

Mate of mine who hated TLJ says this one is his favourite of the sequel trilogy, for what that's worth.

Pretty much. Many reviews are hating on the film for the fan service (at least according to the rotten tomato snippets) as well as for being less subversive than TLJ. While Rian Johnson's TLJ was the tipping point and single biggest factor IMO in the downward trajectory of this sequel trilogy, the rot set in with the largely derivative rehash that was TFA. It was buoyed by the fact that it was the first real new (I don't count that clone wars three or four episode "movie") in over a decade and the anticipation was quite high. I do agree though that JJ was in between a rock and a hard place and am surprised that he agreed to come back to do this frankly after seeing TLJ.

The fact that TLJ was largely well received by critics certainly makes it unsurprising that RoS going in a different direction might be less well received by them, for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far as JJ coming back - he's supposedly a massive Star Wars fan himself, and reportedly liked TLJ (even if he didn't necessarily agree with all of RJ's choices) so I don't think getting him to come back would have been difficult at all.

 gorgon wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
No, you're just going to find people disliking something you like. You'll have to get over that.

I have no issue with people liking something I dislike. By all means, go right ahead.

I have an issue with people not enjoying things they spend their money on.

So, you might want to google "Irony" there, Jar Jar.

 gorgon wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
No, you're just going to find people disliking something you like. You'll have to get over that.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
No, you're just going to find people disliking something you like. You'll have to get over that.

I have no issue with people liking something I dislike. By all means, go right ahead.

I have an issue with people not enjoying things they spend their money on.

So, you might want to google "Irony" there, Jar Jar.

You said this about people who disagree with you about a sci-fi adventure movie.

The trend seems to be that all of the Access Media lice have realized that this might be the last big Star Wars movie for a while, and now- there's not much reason to stay leashed. After all, it's not like any of these sycophantic parasites had any real dignity to start with, but now- they might be trying to salvage that, as anyone from their audience with the mental capacity to wipe their own ass without getting feces in their mouth has abandoned them.

Maybe you should just get over it.

I did like RO and even Solo, really. I'm not against every new things and not even a boomer (yeah some people think the ones that didn't like the Disney trilogy are just too old ).
I even went to the movies theater to see this one !
But Gosh

 insaniak wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
The Screen Junkies video is interesting, right up until Roth repeats that vacuous canard that "it's impossible to please the fans".....

I haven't watched the Screen Junkies video (staying away from reviews until after I see it on Sunday) but I actually think that in this specific case, that might be right, simply because TLJ was so divisive. If JJ chose to stay too close to RJ's vision, those who hated TLJ would complain. If he veers too far from what RJ set up, those who loved TLJ complain. While there's a middle ground, finding it would be like nailing jelly to a tree.

Mate of mine who hated TLJ says this one is his favourite of the sequel trilogy, for what that's worth.

To an extent that's true, but I got the sense she meant it in a more general way(it's been a common sentiment from reviewers/professional nerds for a long while now whenever any significant segment of a given fandom disagrees with their take on a new installment that it was simply inevitable that a significant segment of said fandom would hate it no matter what it was, which is of course patent garbage, or that there's no possibility of a happy medium that would make almost everybody reasonably happy - it's not that [thing they like] is bad, or even merely controversial, it's just those raging manbabies who don't like change etc).

But yeah, sure, it would have been very difficult to nail things to the wall in this specific instance, but framing it as "the fans are impossible to please" rather than "the leadership of Lucasfilm have, through their ineptitude, created a scenario in which the audience is so divided it's almost impossible to reconcile that divide in a single movie" feels like shifting the responsibility to me.

 godardc wrote:

Spoiler:

Tie fighters suddenlyhaving hyperdrive capacities immediately put me off the movie and Palpatine having tens of thousands of spaceship with Death Star level of power (not even kidding) not even speaking about the constant creep in power and number and the fact it recton every single of its own scene every 10 seconds (Rey burns her spaceship, she got a new one 10s later, etc)

Wait a minute...

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Spoiler:

Tie fighters suddenlyhaving hyperdrive capacities immediately put me off the movie and Palpatine having tens of thousands of spaceship with Death Star level of power (not even kidding) not even speaking about the constant creep in power and number and the fact it recton every single of its own scene every 10 seconds (Rey burns her spaceship, she got a new one 10s later, etc)

Wait a minute...

Spoiler:

How the hell did this not reduce the pilot into a paste, considering TIE fighters have no shielding or life support systems?

Well, ask the "fans" and Disney. Maybe the magical Force can explain this too as it seems to be the strongest Deus ex machina of the decade

 godardc wrote:
Well, ask the "fans" and Disney. Maybe the magical Force can explain this too as it seems to be the strongest Deus ex machina of the decade

"There is no source material", of course.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Spoiler:

Tie fighters suddenlyhaving hyperdrive capacities immediately put me off the movie and Palpatine having tens of thousands of spaceship with Death Star level of power (not even kidding) not even speaking about the constant creep in power and number and the fact it recton every single of its own scene every 10 seconds (Rey burns her spaceship, she got a new one 10s later, etc)

Wait a minute...

Spoiler:

How the hell did this not reduce the pilot into a paste, considering TIE fighters have no shielding or life support systems?

Was it one of the TFA versions with the white wings?

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/TIE/sf_space_superiority_fighter

It was a two-seater unlike the previous TIE models, and was outfitted with enhanced weapons and sensor systems as well as hyperdrives and deflector shields.

Assuming that it's the same kind obviously as I haven't seen the film.

The answer is simple than you think.

 warboss wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Spoiler:

Tie fighters suddenlyhaving hyperdrive capacities immediately put me off the movie and Palpatine having tens of thousands of spaceship with Death Star level of power (not even kidding) not even speaking about the constant creep in power and number and the fact it recton every single of its own scene every 10 seconds (Rey burns her spaceship, she got a new one 10s later, etc)

Wait a minute...

Spoiler:

How the hell did this not reduce the pilot into a paste, considering TIE fighters have no shielding or life support systems?

Was it one of the TFA versions with the white wings?

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/TIE/sf_space_superiority_fighter

It was a two-seater unlike the previous TIE models, and was outfitted with enhanced weapons and sensor systems as well as hyperdrives and deflector shields.

Assuming that it's the same kind obviously as I haven't seen the film.

Why tf do they have the same name and just a stupid paint change then ? Everything is just so lazy with Disney it's crazy

Alas, there are too many spoiler tags to resist and I need to resist. I guess this thread is dead to me until I see it on Friday. See you all on Saturday

 warboss wrote:
Screen junkies was also one of the (many) professional media outlets that repeatedly gak on fans unhappy with TLJ fwiw.

This is true. Roth, especially, came across as a bit of a shill. Some of the others were just in it to snark or feel outraged. It was uncomfortable because Dan clearly didn’t like TLJ yet didn’t want to get drawn into debates, either.

Anyway, I like his reviews because he explains why he liked or did not like a movie well enough that I can usually tell from his reviews if I will like a movie, even if he didn’t. Roth is ...less reliable.

 godardc wrote:

Why tf do they have the same name and just a stupid paint change then ? Everything is just so lazy with Disney it's crazy

It's not just a paint change. The engines is moved out from behind the pilot (to allow for the second seat) and replaced with twin engines on the wing struts, and it has shield generator pods on either side of the cockpit ball. It looks superficially like a regular TIE fighter, in the same way that the sequel-era X-wings are recognisable as such while also having a number of design changes.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Screen junkies was also one of the (many) professional media outlets that repeatedly gak on fans unhappy with TLJ fwiw.

This is true. Roth, especially, came across as a bit of a shill. Some of the others were just in it to snark or feel outraged. It was uncomfortable because Dan clearly didn’t like TLJ yet didn’t want to get drawn into debates, either.

Anyway, I like his reviews because he explains why he liked or did not like a movie well enough that I can usually tell from his reviews if I will like a movie, even if he didn’t. Roth is ...less reliable.

I don't recall their specific TLJ discussion or review but, even if it was negative towards fans, I was more forgiving of blatant fan/customer dislike at the time. It was the months of snide little comments offered seemingly every time Star Wars came up as a topic even peripherally that pushed my buttons, especially by Hal (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1246550/). He seemed to relish never missing the opportunity to label unhappy fans with some sort of derogatory moniker. I'm a bit fuzzy after two years as seemingly all the outlets were pretty much running the same narratives but it was definitely his comments that finally made me unsubscribe one day after he took a dig on fans when Star Wars came up about a year after TLJ was released... maybe it was a promo puff piece for Solo.... Prior to that, I enjoyed their content though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
Alas, there are too many spoiler tags to resist and I need to resist. I guess this thread is dead to me until I see it on Friday. See you all on Saturday

May the Schwartz be with you until then! Let us know what you think.

I haven’t seen Hal much at all in years. I stopped watching movie fights, and other than his Comicon bit, I don’t recall him doing anything else for them.

Considering how we’ve had issues discussing Star Wars since TLJ on this board, I’ll just chalk it up to “DisneyWars makes everyone angry”.

I am looking forward to going to the theater with my family and watching Jumanji 2 instead of this.