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All the rats jumping from a sinking ship. All the shills desperately walking that tightrope between "access media" and "retaining an audience with dignity intact".
But, you know, we're just a bunch of Russian Trolls.
No, it's racist/misogynist trolls and Russian bots. Oh, and manbabies of course. All of which now apply just as correctly to every media writer that expresses any discontent with this film if they previously ignorantly labelled all TLJ discontent in the fan community with the same brush. Somehow I don't think they'll apply the same standards though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 05:18:39
When you make a $4 billion purchase and plan to recoup your costs by just winging it... then maybe you you should have a plan...
Thinking about it, this scene from A New Hope feels prescient.
Start at 4:24
Luke [JJ Abrams]: Anyone have a way out? Han [Rian Johnson]: (Shooting at Stormtroopers) I can't hold them off forever. Now what? Leia [Kathleen Kenedy]: This is some rescue. When you came here didn't you have a plan for getting out? Han [Rian Johnson]: He's the brains sweetheart. Leia shoots a hole in the wall. Han [Rian Johnson]: What the hell are you doing? Leia [Kathleen Kenedy]: Somebody has to save our skins. Into the garbage, flyboy. Han [Rian Johnson]: (to Chewbaca) Get in there! Chewbacca (Mark Hamill): (Cries in protest) Han [Rian Johnson]: Get in there you big furry oaf! I don't care what you smell. (kicks Chewbacca into trash chute)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 11:12:49
Well about 4.5 hours I get to see how much copy&paste from 4-6 this one is. Hopefully at least little bit less than last one that I had already seen like 2 decades ago. Expectations around the absolute zero
LunarSol wrote: I quite like TLJ, though I'd prefer it be about half an hour shorter so I could watch it more often.
That's pretty easy to do. Fast forward through all the Canto Bright stuff. It's about 1/2hr worth of footage, and removing it makes zero difference to the outcome of the film.
Rewatching it I even liked this more than I thought I would. At the very least, the parts I liked and didn't like flopped around as I've watched it again. Things like the kangaroo escape breaks up the pacing nicely. What really drags it down are the two bits of soapboxing that feel straight out of the prequels. Finn's confrontation with Phasma is also a pretty baffling cut I'd really like to see restored. Then again, I also keep hoping for yup-nub back, so I've let a lot of this stuff go.
Having decided awhile ago "feth it" on this movie, I kind of reached the conclusion that there's really no way for it to win. Critically at least (it's still probably going to make lots of money).
TFA is like a 2 hour intro scene and everyone forgot the intro is supposed to lead to the actual movie.
TLJ is like a 2 hour intermission about the bad guys getting an upper hand and everyone forgot the intermission is supposed to be the middle of the film not the whole film.
On both sides of those films there's a lot of "where's the story tho" and that basically leaves RoS to pick up all the narrative weight of the trilogy and it's just too late in the game for that. The trailers go ahead and look more like "an epic finale and everyone forgot it's supposed to be the end of the film not the whole film."
You'd think that set up might work in a trilogy but to me I think it leaves the entire endeavor lopsided and feeling empty, to say nothing of TLJ's rotten characterizations and empty "big swing" moments.
What I'm getting from so many of these reviews is "There's so much movie here, more than a single movie's worth!".
It's almost as if there was movie that came out that destroyed every plot point set up in the first one and they've had to scramble to cobble together a plot that makes sense of it all.
If only TLJ hadn't taken place MINUTES after TFA, then maybe there would have been time to spread things out...
Nothing like picking up after almost no time elapses and throwing away everything that came before and fundamentally changing characters along the way.
So far reviews are mixed. However the ones that aren't liking it are generally moaning that it appears to be an Endgame type with lots of tropes and bits for fans.
Translation: it might actually be decent.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: So far reviews are mixed. However the ones that aren't liking it are generally moaning that it appears to be an Endgame type with lots of tropes and bits for fans.
Translation: it might actually be decent.
Fingers crossed. I don't think my inner child's heart can take 2 "poorly received" SW in a row.
Something interesting that I JUST realized is that the "last" SW movie always starts with "R" In 1983 the "final" SW movie was Return of the Jedi In 2005 the "final" SW movie was Revenge of the Sith In 2019 the "final" Saga movie is Rise of Skywalker
I wonder is the next "final" SW movie in 15-20 years will keep the tradition
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 15:10:54
Frazzled wrote: So far reviews are mixed. However the ones that aren't liking it are generally moaning that it appears to be an Endgame type with lots of tropes and bits for fans.
Translation: it might actually be decent.
Fingers crossed. I don't think my inner child's heart can take 2 "poorly received" SW in a row.
Something interesting that I JUST realized is that the "last" SW movie always starts with "R"
In 1983 the "final" SW movie was Return of the Jedi
In 2005 the "final" SW movie was Revenge of the Sith
In 2019 the "final" Saga movie is Rise of Skywalker
I wonder is the next "final" SW movie in 15-20 years will keep the tradition
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
bbb wrote: If only TLJ hadn't taken place MINUTES after TFA, then maybe there would have been time to spread things out...
Nothing like picking up after almost no time elapses and throwing away everything that came before and fundamentally changing characters along the way.
Similar issue to TPM, after a fashion, in that that one spent too much time on Baby Anakin, leaving the last two with seriously heavy lifting. I honestly couldn’t say what my opinion of that trilogy would be had it not been for the superb Clone War show.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
bbb wrote: If only TLJ hadn't taken place MINUTES after TFA, then maybe there would have been time to spread things out...
Nothing like picking up after almost no time elapses and throwing away everything that came before and fundamentally changing characters along the way.
Similar issue to TPM, after a fashion, in that that one spent too much time on Baby Anakin, leaving the last two with seriously heavy lifting. I honestly couldn’t say what my opinion of that trilogy would be had it not been for the superb Clone War show.
Agreed. I actually liked TPM a lot when it came out (but to be fair I was only 14). In retrospect, however, you could completely skip Ep1 and all you'd really miss is the best light saber duel in the saga. Otherwise everything you need story-wise is in Ep2 (which I also liked when it came out, but it has since become my least favorite) and continued to Ep3, and marvelously expanded upon in the Clone Wars show.
So it would appear that the idea time between movies should really be 1-4 yrs, which 20-30 years between trilogies. 10 years between movie within a trilogy is too much and 1 day between is too short.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 15:27:40
Frazzled wrote: So far reviews are mixed. However the ones that aren't liking it are generally moaning that it appears to be an Endgame type with lots of tropes and bits for fans.
Translation: it might actually be decent.
I don't think Endgame really works without the 11 years of successful back to back movies and the good will of its fanbase though.
I've been avoiding the reviews because I don't want to spoil it for myself, but has there been any indication that they've defined fit to explain any of the larger political situation this time? I actually like what details we've gotten about the sequel era as described in the supplementary material but it feels like Lucasfilm is more confident in that aspect of the project then the actual movies.
H.B.M.C. wrote: What I'm getting from so many of these reviews is "There's so much movie here, more than a single movie's worth!".
It's almost as if there was movie that came out that destroyed every plot point set up in the first one and they've had to scramble to cobble together a plot that makes sense of it all.
Just keeping it real, Johnson was handed a big ol' gak sandwich by Abrams. It was completely different than the post-ANH environment. Or post-TPM, for that matter. Mysteries upon mysteries, new characters/entities introduced without any explanation or clear plan, characters in comas, a cliffhanger confrontation, etc. Talk about strangling the creative choices for the directors to come. Cripes, even Lucas understood that the first film of a trilogy needs to tee things up but not *dictate* the story.
Johnson and Trevorrow were hired to write and direct...to be creators, not episodic directors. The studio didn't have everything mapped out anyway! They let Abrams stroll in, set up tons of stuff that the next two would be forced to reconcile, and then stroll out. It's hardly a coincidence that Trevorrow left and Abrams replaced him. If Abrams wanted to monopolize the whole thing, he should have insisted on it in the first place.
Johnson simply attacked the tangled mess he was handed like Alexander attacked the Gordian knot. You're allowed not to like Johnson's choices, but he tried to do the franchise a favor by culling the extraneous stuff. But it seems clear that Abrams didn't take the hint, and will be returning to gak (like the Knights of Ren) that JUST DOESN'T MATTER to the larger story. Even though Johnson left the door wide open for him to ignore it and move forward. I don't hate Abrams' work, but there are times as a storyteller that he just can't seem to stop himself from overindulging. It's the least surprising thing ever that RoS may be overstuffed.
To be clear, I go into these things expecting for popcorn films. I'm sure it'll be fun and have great moments and that my kids will enjoy it. But gadzooks, what a roller coaster this trilogy has been.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 15:57:08
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
Though as mentioned earlier, won’t be weighing in with comments or spoiler tags until it’s on wider release. Don’t want to spoil or prejudice discussion etc.
Might offer a rough ‘out of ten’ rating, but then, might be difficult to do that without waffling and whimbriling.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Frazzled wrote: So far reviews are mixed. However the ones that aren't liking it are generally moaning that it appears to be an Endgame type with lots of tropes and bits for fans.
Translation: it might actually be decent.
Correction, it's an Endgame type via JJ Abrams' style, meaning from what I've read(and based on his previous work) it will feel less like a genuine attempt to wind up a huge story with loads of players, and more like a checkbox that the film is working its way through like chores on the way to the sugary treat Big Damn Action scenes that JJ actually wants to be doing.
I mean, think about how many *brand new* characters this film is introducing, on top of the cameos from old favourites, on top of the fact the main cast have had pretty weak characterisation so far. Plus it has to pick up where TFA left off, while sidestepping The Last Poseur's subversions including essentially putting in an entirely new main-baddie, and tell its own story. People are comparing this to the PT, but this would be like if Attack of the Clones had been set immediately after Phantom Menace and focused almost entirely on Anakin & Padme's honeymoon, with a completely tangential Obi-wan/C3P0 buddy comedy side-plot, and then Revenge of the Sith had to handle the entire decline of the Republic and Clone Wars story in a single film.
Given the constraints of the form(ie, a finale of finales, the ending of a trilogy of trilogies, and of a length vaguely endurable in a cinema by a human not wearing adult nappies), what TLJ did to the overall arc of the Sequels, and the people involved, the best RoS could be is on the same level as TFA; a missed opportunity of tolerable memberberries. Because the best version of the film is one we'd never actually get; at the very end, Luke starts awake from a horrible dream, gathers himself, and steps outside to begin his day training young Jedi at his new academy, the end, roll credits, let us never speak of this again, how 'bout that Babby Yoda tho yeah?
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
At least it can't be worse than previous ones and previous ones were so much carbon copies that hard for this one to copy un'ess it starts to copy itself. Then again at this rate star war movie second halves will be copy of first half. Why write full moviewhen you can write half and copy it
Galef wrote: Agreed. I actually liked TPM a lot when it came out (but to be fair I was only 14). In retrospect, however, you could completely skip Ep1 and all you'd really miss is the best light saber duel in the saga. Otherwise everything you need story-wise is in Ep2 (which I also liked when it came out, but it has since become my least favorite) and continued to Ep3, and marvelously expanded upon in the Clone Wars show.
So it would appear that the idea time between movies should really be 1-4 yrs, which 20-30 years between trilogies. 10 years between movie within a trilogy is too much and 1 day between is too short.
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Ep2 is really the one for me where nothing of value happens. Yes, the Clone War begins, and we... technically... get time with Anakin's character, but the structure of that film is nonsense. TPM, for all the issues with details, actually has a really strong core storyline and could easily adapt pretty much everything from AotC:
- Hayden Christensen as Anakin. Cast more as a Han Solo in the story, self assured he can help them win the race if they set him free.
- Clone army already exists. Political argument is whether to deploy them to break the blockade of Naboo. Mention the use of force emboldening the separatists. Maybe even introduce Dooku as a senator threatening consequences. Clones show up with Palpatine at the end to save the day, Yoda wonders about the consequences.
That's like... basically it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 17:34:45
Here is the Screen Junkies review. Screen Junkies always try to walk the line of honesty and staying positive, so the first three minutes are Roth trying to beat around the bush. Then Dan Murrell starts with “I did not like this movie” and proceeds from there. It’s worth a watch if you want to see a pair of film nerds discuss a trainwreck.
Highlights include:
“This is the worst Star Wars script I’ve ever seen.”
“JJ is just servicing himself.”
“Star Wars is a trap.”
However, they did think that some of the people who loved TFA and hated TLJ will really like this movie.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 17:35:55
Galef wrote: Agreed. I actually liked TPM a lot when it came out (but to be fair I was only 14). In retrospect, however, you could completely skip Ep1 and all you'd really miss is the best light saber duel in the saga. Otherwise everything you need story-wise is in Ep2 (which I also liked when it came out, but it has since become my least favorite) and continued to Ep3, and marvelously expanded upon in the Clone Wars show.
So it would appear that the idea time between movies should really be 1-4 yrs, which 20-30 years between trilogies. 10 years between movie within a trilogy is too much and 1 day between is too short.
-
Ep2 is really the one for me where nothing of value happens. Yes, the Clone War begins, and we... technically... get time with Anakin's character, but the structure of that film is nonsense. TPM, for all the issues with details, actually has a really strong core storyline and could easily adapt pretty much everything from AotC:
- Hayden Christensen as Anakin. Cast more as a Han Solo in the story, self assured he can help them win the race if they set him free.
- Clone army already exists. Political argument is whether to deploy them to break the blockade of Naboo. Mention the use of force emboldening the separatists. Maybe even introduce Dooku as a senator threatening consequences. Clones show up with Palpatine at the end to save the day, Yoda wonders about the consequences.
That's like... basically it.
That'd be a brilliant way to do it. And it could allow the new "Ep2" focus on the Clone War itself, since it would have essentially already begun in Ep1
Wdll seen it. As expected tons of copy of prevlous ones, very llttle new, deus ex machne more than shonld ke legally allowed, bad swoid fights(lucky for rey and kyle neithbr fights competent swordman). Bit better than last one by improving good parts ff last one as it copied good parts of last one
