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Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Of all the 40k Battleforces the SM IMHO is by far the best one, followed by the sororitas kit. Both are perfect for people who want to start those armies, as they'll certainly end up getting those models anyway at some point.

And in both cases adding a few more things will give the players pretty functioning armies for mid sized games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bearded__ninja wrote:
I'm looking forward to the Spesh murine box, the BA community are telling me not to..because not meta
But i like the look of it & fluff/personal choice over curbstomping lists anyday.. OH and something about the "Failspeeder" draw's me towards it.
So yeah i have my fingers crossed i can land a box in time for christmas.


Well, speeder aside which is just a matter of preference, anything else is pretty much basic standard stuff for a marine force, BA included.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/21 11:45:34


 
   
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U.k

 Jidmah wrote:
I didn't expect a Karen to know what a citation is (it means providing actual quotes to prove your point)

It also takes some serious lack of self-esteem to get triggered this much by the difference between "wrong" and "bad" from someone who hasn't been living in an anglophone country for over a decade
But "I'm never wrong!" is an essential part of the Karen mindset, so no surprise that you broke out the confetti to celebrate your victory.

But yes, in case that was unclear, I still think your advice is wrong, bad, malicious and harmful to the community as well as that Navarro lacks both the knowledge and the experience to understand the posts made in response to him.


As I said. Unpleasant. But that is all that I can expect of you really, arrogant and rude. Never mind. Carry on name calling and what have you, makes you look really clever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Geifer wrote:
Andykp wrote:
[spoiler]Glad you can see a use for box at least but your first sentence is the problem I have with other commenters on here. The fact it has different rules and buffs etc on the table top is irrelevant. It’s a warboss on a trike in the fluff. It’s a warboss. It’s only when it gets on the table it becomes a sped boss with rules that do x y or a. Story wise, he is the boss, but these that are saying we are doing it wrong can only see what he does on the table.


Out of curiosity, if there was a hypothetical Marine box with a core of Scouts, a flyer and a Terminator Captain, and I were in the market for an expansion of my 10th company army, would you assert that in the fluff a Space Marine Captain is a Space Marine Captain amd there is no narrative problem with the Captain of 1st company leading 10th company?

 wuestenfux wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yes, we can all agree a 40% discount is cool if you don't care what you're buying.

Looks like a good threshold but a bit too ambitious in the case of battleforces.
I guess that 30% discount is the max.


I only checked Sisters (and don't recall the numbers posted earlier in the thread) because of my interest in the box, but that box is just over 230€ when bought individually. 30% would bring it down to just over 160€. 40% would be closer to the 130€ the Christmas boxes were two or three years ago when last I paid attention.

I could see it go either way. I wouldn't put a 160€ price tag beyond 2021 GW, but I really hope the inevitable price increase we'll see on them won't be that harsh. At 140€ they would match a price tag GW has sold some things at lately and still preserve the 40% discount.

Generally, though, I can't agree on the part about 40% discount being too ambitious for Christmas boxes. They've always been a pretty decent deal with that kind of discount or even more. Getting a significantly lower discount would actually be a departure from a longstanding strategy.


Why couldn’t the captain of the 10th company have access to terminator armour?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bearded__ninja wrote:
I'm looking forward to the Spesh murine box, the BA community are telling me not to..because not meta
But i like the look of it & fluff/personal choice over curbstomping lists anyday.. OH and something about the "Failspeeder" draw's me towards it.
So yeah i have my fingers crossed i can land a box in time for christmas.


If I wasn’t already over run with intercessors I would get this one definitely.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/21 11:56:53


 
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






Andykp wrote:
Spoiler:
 Geifer wrote:
Andykp wrote:
[spoiler]Glad you can see a use for box at least but your first sentence is the problem I have with other commenters on here. The fact it has different rules and buffs etc on the table top is irrelevant. It’s a warboss on a trike in the fluff. It’s a warboss. It’s only when it gets on the table it becomes a sped boss with rules that do x y or a. Story wise, he is the boss, but these that are saying we are doing it wrong can only see what he does on the table.


Out of curiosity, if there was a hypothetical Marine box with a core of Scouts, a flyer and a Terminator Captain, and I were in the market for an expansion of my 10th company army, would you assert that in the fluff a Space Marine Captain is a Space Marine Captain amd there is no narrative problem with the Captain of 1st company leading 10th company?

 wuestenfux wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yes, we can all agree a 40% discount is cool if you don't care what you're buying.

Looks like a good threshold but a bit too ambitious in the case of battleforces.
I guess that 30% discount is the max.


I only checked Sisters (and don't recall the numbers posted earlier in the thread) because of my interest in the box, but that box is just over 230€ when bought individually. 30% would bring it down to just over 160€. 40% would be closer to the 130€ the Christmas boxes were two or three years ago when last I paid attention.

I could see it go either way. I wouldn't put a 160€ price tag beyond 2021 GW, but I really hope the inevitable price increase we'll see on them won't be that harsh. At 140€ they would match a price tag GW has sold some things at lately and still preserve the 40% discount.

Generally, though, I can't agree on the part about 40% discount being too ambitious for Christmas boxes. They've always been a pretty decent deal with that kind of discount or even more. Getting a significantly lower discount would actually be a departure from a longstanding strategy.


Why couldn’t the captain of the 10th company have access to terminator armour?


Okay, maybe I was too subtle. I'm trying to figure out if your stance is "do whatever you want, the fluff is open enough".

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U.k

Spoiler:
 Geifer wrote:
Andykp wrote:
[spoiler]
 Geifer wrote:
Andykp wrote:
[spoiler]Glad you can see a use for box at least but your first sentence is the problem I have with other commenters on here. The fact it has different rules and buffs etc on the table top is irrelevant. It’s a warboss on a trike in the fluff. It’s a warboss. It’s only when it gets on the table it becomes a sped boss with rules that do x y or a. Story wise, he is the boss, but these that are saying we are doing it wrong can only see what he does on the table.


Out of curiosity, if there was a hypothetical Marine box with a core of Scouts, a flyer and a Terminator Captain, and I were in the market for an expansion of my 10th company army, would you assert that in the fluff a Space Marine Captain is a Space Marine Captain amd there is no narrative problem with the Captain of 1st company leading 10th company?

 wuestenfux wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yes, we can all agree a 40% discount is cool if you don't care what you're buying.

Looks like a good threshold but a bit too ambitious in the case of battleforces.
I guess that 30% discount is the max.


I only checked Sisters (and don't recall the numbers posted earlier in the thread) because of my interest in the box, but that box is just over 230€ when bought individually. 30% would bring it down to just over 160€. 40% would be closer to the 130€ the Christmas boxes were two or three years ago when last I paid attention.

I could see it go either way. I wouldn't put a 160€ price tag beyond 2021 GW, but I really hope the inevitable price increase we'll see on them won't be that harsh. At 140€ they would match a price tag GW has sold some things at lately and still preserve the 40% discount.

Generally, though, I can't agree on the part about 40% discount being too ambitious for Christmas boxes. They've always been a pretty decent deal with that kind of discount or even more. Getting a significantly lower discount would actually be a departure from a longstanding strategy.


Why couldn’t the captain of the 10th company have access to terminator armour?


Okay, maybe I was too subtle. I'm trying to figure out if your stance is "do whatever you want, the fluff is open enough".
[/spoiler]

Not too subtle at all, but that ORK box doesn’t require any great leaps of imagination to make a simple background for it.

I am not about to tell anyone that they can’t do what they want with their models either. I have my take on the fluff, and build my armies back ground around it. But others are welcome to theirs.
   
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 Geifer wrote:


Generally, though, I can't agree on the part about 40% discount being too ambitious for Christmas boxes. They've always been a pretty decent deal with that kind of discount or even more. Getting a significantly lower discount would actually be a departure from a longstanding strategy.


I am just hoping that the boxes will end up in the 125-130 pound territory(which might be optimistic). Then the Necron box is a shoe-in for me and I might even go for the Lumineth box(even if I shouldn't)
   
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Andykp wrote:
Spoiler:
 Geifer wrote:
Andykp wrote:
[spoiler]
 Geifer wrote:
Andykp wrote:
[spoiler]Glad you can see a use for box at least but your first sentence is the problem I have with other commenters on here. The fact it has different rules and buffs etc on the table top is irrelevant. It’s a warboss on a trike in the fluff. It’s a warboss. It’s only when it gets on the table it becomes a sped boss with rules that do x y or a. Story wise, he is the boss, but these that are saying we are doing it wrong can only see what he does on the table.


Out of curiosity, if there was a hypothetical Marine box with a core of Scouts, a flyer and a Terminator Captain, and I were in the market for an expansion of my 10th company army, would you assert that in the fluff a Space Marine Captain is a Space Marine Captain amd there is no narrative problem with the Captain of 1st company leading 10th company?

 wuestenfux wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yes, we can all agree a 40% discount is cool if you don't care what you're buying.

Looks like a good threshold but a bit too ambitious in the case of battleforces.
I guess that 30% discount is the max.


I only checked Sisters (and don't recall the numbers posted earlier in the thread) because of my interest in the box, but that box is just over 230€ when bought individually. 30% would bring it down to just over 160€. 40% would be closer to the 130€ the Christmas boxes were two or three years ago when last I paid attention.

I could see it go either way. I wouldn't put a 160€ price tag beyond 2021 GW, but I really hope the inevitable price increase we'll see on them won't be that harsh. At 140€ they would match a price tag GW has sold some things at lately and still preserve the 40% discount.

Generally, though, I can't agree on the part about 40% discount being too ambitious for Christmas boxes. They've always been a pretty decent deal with that kind of discount or even more. Getting a significantly lower discount would actually be a departure from a longstanding strategy.


Why couldn’t the captain of the 10th company have access to terminator armour?


Okay, maybe I was too subtle. I'm trying to figure out if your stance is "do whatever you want, the fluff is open enough".
[/spoiler]

Not too subtle at all, but that ORK box doesn’t require any great leaps of imagination to make a simple background for it.

I am not about to tell anyone that they can’t do what they want with their models either. I have my take on the fluff, and build my armies back ground around it. But others are welcome to theirs.

The guy has obviously not heard of Space Wolves. Poor fella.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/21 16:55:38


 
   
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 Eldarsif wrote:

I am just hoping that the boxes will end up in the 125-130 pound territory(which might be optimistic). Then the Necron box is a shoe-in for me and I might even go for the Lumineth box(even if I shouldn't)

That's the price range that will get me buying the Admech one. If they go with a £150 price tag, I'll be giving it a miss.

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 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:

I am just hoping that the boxes will end up in the 125-130 pound territory(which might be optimistic). Then the Necron box is a shoe-in for me and I might even go for the Lumineth box(even if I shouldn't)

That's the price range that will get me buying the Admech one. If they go with a £150 price tag, I'll be giving it a miss.


£150 doesn’t feel like a treat or a bargain, more like an investment. I don’t play AoS but some of those boxes are tempting.
   
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I have removed some off topic posts engaging in personal attacks from this thread. Please help ensure this thread does not return to such a state. Thanks!

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Andykp wrote:
 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 AngryAngel80 wrote:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I think we get it, if GW put a literal turd on 40% discount you'd eat it up because they can do no wrong.


No, we just think some of you overreact. That, or you somehow think you're the arbiters of how other people are allowed to play of have fun.

Either way, it looks like we're totally making fun of you for it.



Way to high ground my dude, don't worry if someone got that Ork box to play games with they'd be the one making fun of themselves. That's called 3 D Chess right there.


Of course, someone's gonna roll up with an army that contains a wartrike, plane, 20 boyz, shokkmek and some grots + 1330 other points of stuff and you're going guffaw and tell them they're a joke. You seem like you have a healthy gaming group.



Like some here I wouldn't tell anyone to get that box unless they just really wanted all those models and had a good ork army already. Some people do get them for good starter armies and with what was beaten to death already this collection makes a very poor foothold for a number of reasons.

I don't think anyone argues you can't just want to buy it for reasons, they are just saying it's a crap force on its own. You do realize not everyone has limitless funds to drop into an army right ? So if you don't have the limitless funds you kind of want a cohesive force right off that you can easily add to. Not a hodge podge where you'll need to spend double its cost again to make it workable.

All I've seen people say is they wouldn't say it's great for starter players, no one is saying someone with an existing collection couldn't find a place for it.I'm just saying I agree with them, it's a shame of a starter force, but really we don't know how much of a savings any of these boxes will be so for all we know it'll be costed so high it'll be as bad of a value as it is a starting force and make this debate rather pointless in the end. The models look fine, outside from the grots, but it's just a poorly balanced grouping.


What people have said is, this box is crap and and we are all doing the hobby wrong and none of us know anything about the game or ORKS at all. I am not trying to hoodwink anyone into buying it so that they can be laughed at by gamers who can hobby better than me. I am just saying this box isn’t that bad if you aren’t arsed about winning as much as you are about having a nice looking new pile of cool models. You might not think people are arguing that they can’t but this because for any reason but that is exactly what they are doing. And being pretty unpleasant about it too.



Ok, it's not about winning all the time, it's about winning at all with it. Some of these forces give a good, and fluffy core that you'd imagine can win a game now or then. The Ork one specifically has things that make you go hmmmmm. Like a warboss that only interacts with the flyer. A shock attack gun which while I love them, can see why people wouldn't. Grots are meh and the boyz are one of those looks cool on the stand kinda feels bad in the field units with their weapon allocations. Over all it just feels like they liked the look of the models together but didn't stop to wonder how they'd actually work together well.

No one is going to laugh at someone for buying the box I'd imagine but most experienced players will let the possible new player it isn't a good starter force, why and how they can expand it and I dunno for me it would feel bad to need to spend double over or more to make my starter army be able to actually start and not just get face rolled all over the place from even a fluffy force. As this force isn't even really fluffy considering the synergies inherent within it and by that I mean very little. At this point I'm not sure why people are arguing against that fact outside sheer stubbornness.

Models look good, but they don't function together well for the new players out there. Can we at least agree on that ?
   
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U.k

Spoiler:
 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Andykp wrote:
 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 AngryAngel80 wrote:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I think we get it, if GW put a literal turd on 40% discount you'd eat it up because they can do no wrong.


No, we just think some of you overreact. That, or you somehow think you're the arbiters of how other people are allowed to play of have fun.

Either way, it looks like we're totally making fun of you for it.



Way to high ground my dude, don't worry if someone got that Ork box to play games with they'd be the one making fun of themselves. That's called 3 D Chess right there.


Of course, someone's gonna roll up with an army that contains a wartrike, plane, 20 boyz, shokkmek and some grots + 1330 other points of stuff and you're going guffaw and tell them they're a joke. You seem like you have a healthy gaming group.



Like some here I wouldn't tell anyone to get that box unless they just really wanted all those models and had a good ork army already. Some people do get them for good starter armies and with what was beaten to death already this collection makes a very poor foothold for a number of reasons.

I don't think anyone argues you can't just want to buy it for reasons, they are just saying it's a crap force on its own. You do realize not everyone has limitless funds to drop into an army right ? So if you don't have the limitless funds you kind of want a cohesive force right off that you can easily add to. Not a hodge podge where you'll need to spend double its cost again to make it workable.

All I've seen people say is they wouldn't say it's great for starter players, no one is saying someone with an existing collection couldn't find a place for it.I'm just saying I agree with them, it's a shame of a starter force, but really we don't know how much of a savings any of these boxes will be so for all we know it'll be costed so high it'll be as bad of a value as it is a starting force and make this debate rather pointless in the end. The models look fine, outside from the grots, but it's just a poorly balanced grouping.


What people have said is, this box is crap and and we are all doing the hobby wrong and none of us know anything about the game or ORKS at all. I am not trying to hoodwink anyone into buying it so that they can be laughed at by gamers who can hobby better than me. I am just saying this box isn’t that bad if you aren’t arsed about winning as much as you are about having a nice looking new pile of cool models. You might not think people are arguing that they can’t but this because for any reason but that is exactly what they are doing. And being pretty unpleasant about it too.



Ok, it's not about winning all the time, it's about winning at all with it. Some of these forces give a good, and fluffy core that you'd imagine can win a game now or then. The Ork one specifically has things that make you go hmmmmm. Like a warboss that only interacts with the flyer. A shock attack gun which while I love them, can see why people wouldn't. Grots are meh and the boyz are one of those looks cool on the stand kinda feels bad in the field units with their weapon allocations. Over all it just feels like they liked the look of the models together but didn't stop to wonder how they'd actually work together well.

No one is going to laugh at someone for buying the box I'd imagine but most experienced players will let the possible new player it isn't a good starter force, why and how they can expand it and I dunno for me it would feel bad to need to spend double over or more to make my starter army be able to actually start and not just get face rolled all over the place from even a fluffy force. As this force isn't even really fluffy considering the synergies inherent within it and by that I mean very little. At this point I'm not sure why people are arguing against that fact outside sheer stubbornness.

Models look good, but they don't function together well for the new players out there. Can we at least agree on that ?


I have never said they synergise or anything like that. And don’t disagree that they don’t, rules wise. Fluff wise it isn’t as bad as is made out at all. All I have said is those rules synergies that are missing aren’t that important to everyone. I don’t think that’s a stretch for people to accept. Fluff and rules synergies aren’t the same thing. In the fluff, if a boss has a bike he is still the boss and would still boss the boyz about. Just not on the gaming table. I think a lot of you mistaking fluff, for theme. An army can have a theme without being fluffy at all, and visa versa.

So yes we can agree that the models look good and we can agree that they aren’t not an ideal collection of units rules wise. But probably disagree on how much that second point matters.
   
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The best part about these battle forces is if you don’t like them not buying them has almost no impact on the gameplay for you at all! It’s not like a supplement or updated codex. Or even updated models.

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Y'know the battleforce I want?



100 Guardsmen for $200.

Call it 10 heavy weapon teams (20 guys), 40 push fit Cadians (RIP) and 40 mutipart ones with the upgrade sprue. Oh and a command squad. So OK 105.

Now that would be useful.

 
   
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So, these boxes are ready to order in december?
Any clues on the exact date?
   
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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Y'know the battleforce I want?

Spoiler:


100 Guardsmen for $200.

Call it 10 heavy weapon teams (20 guys), 40 push fit Cadians (RIP) and 40 mutipart ones with the upgrade sprue. Oh and a command squad. So OK 105.

Now that would be useful.


It would certainly make for a nice change of pace to buy a representative number of Guardsmen in one go instead of a pile of ten man boxes.

Cadians are even old enough that GW shouldn't feel bad about offering that many for that price.

Nibbler wrote:
So, these boxes are ready to order in december?
Any clues on the exact date?


Nothing official yet. The boxes tend to be available early in December, though. and they're not among next week's pre-orders, so pre-orders on the 4th seems likely.

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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Y'know the battleforce I want?



100 Guardsmen for $200.

Call it 10 heavy weapon teams (20 guys), 40 push fit Cadians (RIP) and 40 mutipart ones with the upgrade sprue. Oh and a command squad. So OK 105.

Now that would be useful.


You can for sure get that many non IP infringing IG from WGA, Grognards even have heavy/command

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Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know the battleforce I want?



100 Guardsmen for $200.

Call it 10 heavy weapon teams (20 guys), 40 push fit Cadians (RIP) and 40 mutipart ones with the upgrade sprue. Oh and a command squad. So OK 105.

Now that would be useful.


I'd buy one, can never have enuff infantry....
   
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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Y'know the battleforce I want?



100 Guardsmen for $200.

Call it 10 heavy weapon teams (20 guys), 40 push fit Cadians (RIP) and 40 mutipart ones with the upgrade sprue. Oh and a command squad. So OK 105.

Now that would be useful.


I think it was direct only when Apoc came out, unlike the green tide or space marine battle company boxes. It came with a bunch of the metal at the time cadian officers and special weapons, a bunch of infantry, and heavy weapon teams. Can't find a picture of it, but I remember it, alongside the other Apoc bundles back in 2008
   
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U.k

I always a bit disappointed when there aren’t any of the Xmas boxes I want to get.
   
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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I think it was direct only when Apoc came out, unlike the green tide or space marine battle company boxes. It came with a bunch of the metal at the time cadian officers and special weapons, a bunch of infantry, and heavy weapon teams. Can't find a picture of it, but I remember it, alongside the other Apoc bundles back in 2008


This one?

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/22 21:26:13


 
   
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beast_gts wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I think it was direct only when Apoc came out, unlike the green tide or space marine battle company boxes. It came with a bunch of the metal at the time cadian officers and special weapons, a bunch of infantry, and heavy weapon teams. Can't find a picture of it, but I remember it, alongside the other Apoc bundles back in 2008


This one?

Spoiler:



The only thing that would make that box any better for me would be to throw a Russ in there. That is one heck of a classic box!
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I had that box. Not the contents, just the physical box.

Though I do have that standard bearer...

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I had that box. Not the contents, just the physical box.

Though I do have that standard bearer...


Standards...one ALWAYS needs standards .

Didn't a couple of years ago they offer an IG one with THREE tanks in it? I seem to recall getting one to fill out my tank brigade.

And I guess there is no Tau box?

It never ends well 
   
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Tampa,FL USA

 Stormonu wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I had that box. Not the contents, just the physical box.

Though I do have that standard bearer...


Standards...one ALWAYS needs standards .

Didn't a couple of years ago they offer an IG one with THREE tanks in it? I seem to recall getting one to fill out my tank brigade.

And I guess there is no Tau box?


They did a 3 Russ Apocalypse box with the first Apocalypse release. The also did a box of 10 Russes at the same time.

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 Stormonu wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I had that box. Not the contents, just the physical box.

Though I do have that standard bearer...


Standards...one ALWAYS needs standards .

Didn't a couple of years ago they offer an IG one with THREE tanks in it? I seem to recall getting one to fill out my tank brigade.

And I guess there is no Tau box?


Whilst not a Christmas box, I remember the Apocalypse box with 4 tanks - Leman Russ Demolisher kit, two Leman Russ Battle Tank kits, a Chimera, three Heavy Weapons Teams and a Command Squad.

No Tau box this year.
   
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

There was an armoured company box that had 10 Russes in it. I never got it because by the time the first edition of Apocalypse rolled around, our group had kind of already got there (doing our own mass games the year before), and I already had 30 Leman Russes. Didn't want anymore.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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Is there a reason why they couldn't do one of these box type things year round? I mean, Imagine being able to go into your local store, pick up the Start Collecting Box + One of these army boxes for your faction + Codex and be pretty ready to play right from the get go.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Togusa wrote:
Is there a reason why they couldn't do one of these box type things year round? I mean, Imagine being able to go into your local store, pick up the Start Collecting Box + One of these army boxes for your faction + Codex and be pretty ready to play right from the get go.


Off hand, because they would take up a ton of space on shelves, and would fill the role of start collecting sets, just larger.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




 Togusa wrote:
Is there a reason why they couldn't do one of these box type things year round? I mean, Imagine being able to go into your local store, pick up the Start Collecting Box + One of these army boxes for your faction + Codex and be pretty ready to play right from the get go.


GW values profit over anything else. The army boxes mean less revenue vs people spending money to get several units and boxes. I am still surprised that GW even sells these anymore, I think they put out a limited amount of them to advertise more then sell them as they will be limited distribution I am sure.
   
 
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