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Hello there Dakkanauts,

Had a little question.
(To set the context, I haven't played 40k since 3rd edition, still trying to find my feet and this forum is a great help thanks to you all.)

I see here and there people talking about an army's close combat units and saying "of course, they won't do that well against dedicated melee units", while they seem pretty dedicated in the first place. Think I read it about Khorne berserkers, for instance...
So I was wondering what it takes to be considered a real threat in hand-to-hand combat ! What criteria are generally used to see if a unit qualifies ?
I recall Genestealers being a terror to face back then, what with their huge Initiative and their tendency to slice open adamantium like it's going out of fashion.

Let's take it further if you will : among those killers, what is the unit you do not want to let the slightest chance to reach you ? The biggest, meanest, scariest bunch of muthafuckas to roam the galaxy in the 41st millenium ?
Tau generals need not reply
I have yet to face them, but those Thunderwolf Cavalry flea-bags make me shiver. They can even take stormshields ffs.

I think the criteria is a standard of being able to wreck any standard infantry on the charge. For instance, tooled up Chosen Space Marines, despite having all manner of weapons, will not utterly smash a Tactical Squad. Khorne Berserkers or a 200 point Terminator squad will.

It doesn't much if a unit gives up all other capacities for close combat (this would be the usual definition), unless the unit meets the above. This separates the meat shields and speed bumps from the hammers. My Greater Daemon is not really a dedicate melee unit, despite not having any other option. His role is counter-assault, not independently killing an entire army.

As to the greatest dedicated melee unit, I'm torn between good ol' Assault Terminators and Thunderwolves. Everything the Grey Knights have is just too expensive. Uberkilly, certainly, but that only justifies dedicating my entire army to killing it.

EDIT: Oh, and you got bonus points for saying "dakkanaut" instead of "dakkite."

Henchmen squads with DCA´s and Crusaders make pretty much anything without an AV cry, especially with an Inquisitor or Uriah Jacobus for company.

Death cult assassins for GK's, Khorne Berserkers, Hammernators, Thunderwolf cav, Nobz, Wyches for DE, Genestealers.

And worst of all, Death Company.

BronzeJon is pretty mutch on the money.

Mind you, DE wytches might not kill you outright, but they will winn that close combat.

I would like to add moast things in the GK codex, but it depends. If you are a homogaunt, you do not really fear power weapons. But from the GK purifiers, some of the assassins and paladins. (Mind you palladins is a primary shooting unit.)


If you do not have any way to take AP 12 dreadnoughts are bad in CC.

However, your question asks for a listing for moast units in moast situvations. Raveners withouth S8 (for instant kill) is hard. As is a tervigon and the carnifex, although the last thing is to expensive.

30+ orks in CC with a power claw is also nasty. Your question requiers some more concrete example.

What is the unit in question?

Are you fighting on your premisses?

Do your units have any way of delivery or escape a bigger fish?

Any one of these units: Ork Nobs, Ork boys, Ork Tankbaustas, Ork MegaNobz, Ork Stormboys, Ork Kommandos and Gretchins (NOT). Basically, all orks live to mess everyone's gak up in CC. =D

Wow, Darkhound didn't just take the cake, he snatched it so fast everyone now thinks it was a lie.
Jokes aside, that's great input, with things I hadn't even begun to consider. Much appreciated.

Thanks for all the replies guys, keep'em comin' !
Niiai, there's no particular context to my second question ; it was more for the sake of entertainment, à la "who's got the biggest ?" , just with promises of epic-scale dismembering instead.

Full units of Wraiths with whip coils (and optionally additional equipment for wound abuse) also count.

As do most Daemons of Chaos melee units. Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, and Fiends, especially.

For me a a cc specialist is a unit that deals a large number of attacks that ignor armour and can survive armour ignoring attacks in one way or another (striking first so you don't face a lot of attacks back counts). With that criteria palidans are pretty scary

Mephiston.

heartserenade wrote:Mephiston.

uh ... no!

Abbadon remains the melee bad ass in the 40k universe!

I know some guys hate him but....
Draigo.
( and 5 paladins)

Can't forget Mr. Thrakka!!

Generally, I'd say anything with with loads of attacks and/or power weapons. Preferably both. Most any orks, Khorne daemons, Wyches, Death Company, Assault Terms, or TWC are the ones that really come to mind.

Swarmlord with lash whip body guards? ID, 4+ inv of his own, enemy at i and WS 1 and rerolling successful inv saves, preferred enemy iirc. Nasty big bug!

grifter wrote:Henchmen squads with DCA´s and Crusaders make pretty much anything without an AV cry, especially with an Inquisitor or Uriah Jacobus for company.

Came to say this, glad it is covered.

The Uriah Bomb has got to be one of the most lethal units in the game right now for H2H.

On their own - slaanesh fiends.
Number of attacks - rending
Initiative - they are going first.
Invulnerable save
Speed - cavalry - good luck they are almost always in charge range.
Wounds - 2 plus immunity to instant death.

Otherwise we are talking TH/SS termies coming out of an LRC. They have the charge range and can force the fight anywhere.

Don't forget harlequins - lots of attacks, rending, fleet,, furious charge and a power weapon on the leader. They rip things up.

Fiends are one of the better CC units in the game. as the other guy said, 2 wounds, invuln save, a craptop of attacks, rending
Assault termies are scary. Period. double that in a LRC
Bloodletters- lots of attacks, power weapons, and they go before marines on the charge- aka- They eat marines for breakfast
Bloodcrushers- take bloodletters, add a wound and twice the killy power, and a marine save. these make daemons tournment worthy (with blessing of the blood god, 2+ save against Psy. powers and force weapons. TAKE THAT GK, and fateweaver. they get to re-roll a 3+/5++ save...)
Orks- be it nobs or boys, they scare me. though they have teeshirt army, they have more models than you have shots/attacks, and they are good in cc too boot! same thing for 'Nids
Grey Knights- there is never enough of them. they are scary, but still
wyches- they are eather one of the best non-cc units in cc, or one of the worst cc units. they can eat a non-cc unit on the charge, although dont exepct them to kill bloodcrushers or berskers, but still good
Berskers- they get lots of attacks, and a marine save. they will eat you.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah-
Banshees- lots of attacks, only the KoS can go simlu with them and power weapons...

I think there are dedicated CC units, as mentioned, but there is also a higher tier of CC units.

Take the CSM Daemon prince. He's a nasty fellow, 4 attacks on profile, MC, S/T/I5, can get some nifty powers, wings to make him mobile, 3+/5++ etc. He's a beatstick, he will tear up tanks and walkers and tac squads and guardsmen and so on and so forth.

But when he gets charged/charges something like a blob of genestealers or TH/SS terminators, he tends to get splattered. He might carve up some models, but cannot face down certain units in melee. 5 Tac terminators are something a DP has a good chance of gobbling up, especially if he is a tzeentch prince for the 4++. But 5 TH/SS terms is like throwing him into a brick wall.

So for me, there are 4 tiers of melee units-

Units that don't like to be in melee unless for a tactical reason i.e powerfisting a vehicle, speedbumps (Fire warriors, unblobbed guardsmen, tac marines...)
Units that are ok in melee and can be used to tie up lower tier units/assist a dedicated CC unit (CSM, GH, trukk boyz)
Dedicated CC units- Units that do well in melee, and units that need to get into melee to do the bulk of their damage (20+ boyz mobs, beserkers, GK, bloodletters)
Raw beatsticks- units that dominate in melee (large groups of 'stealers, TH/SS terminators, TWC)

Jihallah wrote:Raw beatsticks- units that dominate in melee (large groups of 'stealers, TH/SS terminators, TWC)

You missed the Uriah bomb.