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On a different thread it was mentioned that if Horus had won, humainty would have been deystroyed, so who would take their place?

Thoughts?

Orks

Shoulda seen that coming

Im just thinking that if man were dead, the ork population would increase.

It really would depend on how things played out.

Humanity would self-destruct in an orgy of violence. Chaos would, for however long that took, swell to enormous levels of power, but then it would wane irrevocably as the human race died. The Eldar and the Dark Eldar would probably be about the same.

Without the Astronomicon the Tyranids would never be drawn to the galaxy; who knows what effect that would have on them. Maybe they were coming here anyway.

The Necrons would, once again, be unaffected. . . unless the sudden massive spike in Chaos tripped some kind of alarm system and started waking them up early. The effects of that? Anybody's guess, but it wouldn't actually increase their numbers or anything like that. The Necrons have as many Necrons as they have, and can't get anymore. However, it might be that they would wake up much faster, and of course if they started waking up in 30k they'd have 10,000 fewer years of accumulated damage to deal with.

The Orks would be basically unaffected. You could make arguments that they'd either become more powerful or less powerful; more because they'd have more room to expand, less because they'd have less to fight. Of course, Orks are usually perfectly happy fighting each other, so. . . I'd probably give it to them.

I think that your thought on how the orks would have room to expand is definatly true for the Tau.

Vice_Grip wrote:I think that your thought on how the orks would have room to expand is definatly true for the Tau.

Very true; but the Tau don't have fast enough FTL to maintain a large-scale empire. Central command and control requires strategic speed; so does the Tau style of warfare, which relies on concentration of firepower on specific points and avoiding close combat. In space, they can't do that; every other race's ships move faster than theirs do on the galactic scale, which means that their opponents will always have faster communications, faster concentration of force, and a larger number of systems to draw reinforcements from in any given time-frame.

Basically, until the Tau figure out Warp travel or some other, equally fast method of travel, they simply can't grow into a galaxy-spanning power. Orks can, Eldar or DE could if they had the numbers, Tyranids could because they don't care about conquest, only omnomnom, and Necrons can because they have both numbers and the Webway.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Vice_Grip wrote:I think that your thought on how the orks would have room to expand is definatly true for the Tau.

Very true; but the Tau don't have fast enough FTL to maintain a large-scale empire. Central command and control requires strategic speed; so does the Tau style of warfare, which relies on concentration of firepower on specific points and avoiding close combat. In space, they can't do that; every other race's ships move faster than theirs do on the galactic scale, which means that their opponents will always have faster communications, faster concentration of force, and a larger number of systems to draw reinforcements from in any given time-frame.

Basically, until the Tau figure out Warp travel or some other, equally fast method of travel, they simply can't grow into a galaxy-spanning power. Orks can, Eldar or DE could if they had the numbers, Tyranids could because they don't care about conquest, only omnomnom, and Necrons can because they have both numbers and the Webway.

Necrons have the webway?

I thought it was because they already have a foothold in every area of the galaxy. Like weeds, they're everywhere

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Vice_Grip wrote:I think that your thought on how the orks would have room to expand is definatly true for the Tau.

Very true; but the Tau don't have fast enough FTL to maintain a large-scale empire. Central command and control requires strategic speed; so does the Tau style of warfare, which relies on concentration of firepower on specific points and avoiding close combat. In space, they can't do that; every other race's ships move faster than theirs do on the galactic scale, which means that their opponents will always have faster communications, faster concentration of force, and a larger number of systems to draw reinforcements from in any given time-frame.

Basically, until the Tau figure out Warp travel or some other, equally fast method of travel, they simply can't grow into a galaxy-spanning power. Orks can, Eldar or DE could if they had the numbers, Tyranids could because they don't care about conquest, only omnomnom, and Necrons can because they have both numbers and the Webway.

Necrons have the webway?

I thought it was because they already have a foothold in every area of the galaxy. Like weeds, they're everywhere

New necron fluff. They have the Dolmen gates, basically ghetto-style webway entrances.

Ok let look at this then, if Horus won, the Powers of Chaos would rule the Galaxy...that was their plan afterall.

After the Warmaster and Chaos I would say possibly the Tyranids or Orks, as they are the two forces which currently cause the IoM the most problems

Lets group them all up.

Tyranids - Nothing changes, the SM's kept them at bay to some degree, so can the Traitor legions

Orks - Nothing changes, still cant work together properly and are about as team orientated as the English Football team

Eldar - Nothing changes, still so few Craftworlds...the phrase 'Every Dog Has It's Day' springs to mind

Dark Eldar - Nothing changes, unless seeing as Chaos now rules the Galaxy, they could srike up an agreement with the Warmaster.

Necrons - Nothing changes, unless they actually wake up, instead of pushing the snooze button on their alarm clocks

Tau - Nothing changes, unless they discover Warp Travel

Honestly, Orks. I think the only thing that keeps then in check is that they can't go anywhere without running into the Imperium's forces. with an organized Human force to [try to] counter ever waaagh!, they would sweep across the galaxy in an stoppable waagh!, swelling there numbers with smaller ork warband they encounter.

Orks. They're already the leading power when the Imperium won (they control the most territory, have the biggest population, and so on), I don't know why this would change anything.

81Northman wrote:Ok let look at this then, if Horus won, the Powers of Chaos would rule the Galaxy...that was their plan afterall.

This may or may not be true depending on whether the Cabal were/would be correct or not.
The OP's post seemed to put it in the context of the Cabal being correct and Chaos destroying and dying alongside humanity.

Ok let look at this then, if Horus won, the Powers of Chaos would rule the Galaxy...that was their plan afterall.


This may or may not be true depending on whether the Cabal were/would be correct or not.
The OP's post seemed to put it in the context of the Cabal being correct and Chaos destroying and dying alongside humanity.

You are correct, that is what I meant.

Tau - Nothing changes, unless they discover Warp Travel

Not saying they won't have problems, if any thing they would likely over expand and colapse.

Erm... uhhhh...

Aren't most of you missing the obvious here? Had Horus won, Chaos would be the ruling power in the Galaxy. What with the demise of the Emperor and all...?

IronSnake wrote:Aren't most of you missing the obvious here?

Of course I'm not missing the obvious.

Melissia wrote:Orks. They're already the leading power when the Imperium won (they control the most territory, have the biggest population, and so on), I don't know why this would change anything.

I honsetly don't think it would be orks, you know with their in ability to unite under a set of leaders for an extended period of time (no clear succesion, death of leader often leads to civil war).

Orks are just rodents. They can't really control anything, including themselves.

Chaos on the other hand would envelope all of the Galaxy and most likely wipe out every other race. Do Orks thrive in the eye of terror? I think not. And that's what you'd have if Chaos were to kill the Emperor. A galactic-wide eye of terror.

Iron Snake, you missinterpert the question, by defeating the big E, yes chaos would be in a very good postion, but would kill itself off. The blood must flow. Chaos would begin fighting amongst themsleves and deystroy themselves.

That is the given situation.

Not necessarily. And not before Chaos wipes out every other foe first and that includes Orks.

IronSnake wrote:Erm... uhhhh...

Aren't most of you missing the obvious here? Had Horus won, Chaos would be the ruling power in the Galaxy. What with the demise of the Emperor and all...?

And the Cabal told Alpharius, or Omegon, or Alpha Legionnaire #473, that if chaos won the heresy, then it would end up burning itself out and be ultimately defeated. That's what you're missing.


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And orks don't fuel chaos and most people are pretty sure that chaos doesn't want to mess around with Gork and Mork

No I'm not missing ... it...

Like I said Chaos wouldn't just turn on itself right away before extinguishing all life in the galaxy first.

Oh nevermind...

Orks... yes... orks would be the ruling force. *jumps in the bandwagon*

IronSnake wrote:Orks are just rodents. They can't really control anything, including themselves.

Except, of course, for the overwhelming majority of the planets and territory in 40k.

Orks have already won. They're the dominant race. With the Empeor gone and the Eldar fallen, everyone else is merely fighting for scraps while the Orks enforce their will upon the galaxy.

And thus there is only war. Exactly what the Orks want.

We missed probably the biggest option here:

No one.

1) Orks are too war like to maintain a stable society for long.
2) Tau would not be able to grow big enough.
3) Eldar do not have the numbers nesisary, may change given enough time though.
4) Dark Eldar would loose a primary source of slaves, not good, but not crippling.
5) Nids would not come into the galaxcy, or would find it rather empty.
6) Necrons would PROBABLY not awaken, if they did they would find the place to be rather empty as well.
7) No Imperium, self explainitory so I'm not going to go through the list of imperial factions.

Nids might whipe the Eldar and Tau out though.

Vice_Grip wrote:1) Orks are too war like to maintain a stable society for long.

On the contrary, Ork society is incredibly stable.

It's just that Ork society is based on war, not peace like the other societies.

Orks having a "stable" society by our measures would be a failed society by Ork measures.

Good point. Orks it is.

It's not so much that chaos would turn on itself rather, once all the psyker species whose emotions feed the chaos gods are dead, chaos would start starving to death which in turn would possibly cause them to turn on one another trying to maintain their existence for as long as possible by consuming each other. But in the end with nothing to feed off of, chaos would die.

Just a slower process.

Well I suspect Slaanesh would be relatively quick with Ynnead and all...

Randomonioum wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Vice_Grip wrote:I think that your thought on how the orks would have room to expand is definatly true for the Tau.

Very true; but the Tau don't have fast enough FTL to maintain a large-scale empire. Central command and control requires strategic speed; so does the Tau style of warfare, which relies on concentration of firepower on specific points and avoiding close combat. In space, they can't do that; every other race's ships move faster than theirs do on the galactic scale, which means that their opponents will always have faster communications, faster concentration of force, and a larger number of systems to draw reinforcements from in any given time-frame.

Basically, until the Tau figure out Warp travel or some other, equally fast method of travel, they simply can't grow into a galaxy-spanning power. Orks can, Eldar or DE could if they had the numbers, Tyranids could because they don't care about conquest, only omnomnom, and Necrons can because they have both numbers and the Webway.

Necrons have the webway?

I thought it was because they already have a foothold in every area of the galaxy. Like weeds, they're everywhere

New necron fluff. They have the Dolmen gates, basically ghetto-style webway entrances.

Well that's annoying...

So looks like Orks and Necrons for me. Course the necrons would eventually wake up if there were too many orks. Probably sure the orks wouldn't mind that either.

And I still think the tyranids could be a factor, y'know just because the astronomicon has stopped powering doesn't mean that the tyranids were already travelling there. But hey, space is huge, could be a long shot