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We tyranids tend to be fluffy bunnies, that is true. Our army has a really strong theme, there is no avoding that.

No, i don't consider it a bad thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


I scrap built my mines through some venom bugs leftover bits and they came out majorly cool, some prefer it to the originals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/19 11:57:57


 
   
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 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


Im thinking about putting him into my army for fun, mostly b.c its a character and since he hits on 2+ , 5 attacks with re-rolls, he always will hit 4 or more, easy way to remove a model. If he charges something that is 3 wounds, you have a 67% chance to remove it from play, thats better than 3 0ap wounds vs 3+/4+.

Is it a waste of points and most likely not work? Most likely! But does it sound fun? Heck yeah!

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 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


Im thinking about putting him into my army for fun, mostly b.c its a character and since he hits on 2+ , 5 attacks with re-rolls, he always will hit 4 or more, easy way to remove a model. If he charges something that is 3 wounds, you have a 67% chance to remove it from play, thats better than 3 0ap wounds vs 3+/4+.

Is it a waste of points and most likely not work? Most likely! But does it sound fun? Heck yeah!


So are you really using the terrible Red Terror model?
   
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 Astmeister wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


Im thinking about putting him into my army for fun, mostly b.c its a character and since he hits on 2+ , 5 attacks with re-rolls, he always will hit 4 or more, easy way to remove a model. If he charges something that is 3 wounds, you have a 67% chance to remove it from play, thats better than 3 0ap wounds vs 3+/4+.

Is it a waste of points and most likely not work? Most likely! But does it sound fun? Heck yeah!


So are you really using the terrible Red Terror model?


No, i have my own lol

Edit: I will try to take a pic later

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/19 14:30:33


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Mucoloids are expensive because you only get one in a Tyrannocyte pack. They are fairly easy to convert though so its not a big deal.


Pyrovores are obtusely overpriced, but I bought them anyway.


GW made them a bit too strong with the points changes in order to sell them, no doubt, since they had probably upwards of 1500 of them sitting in their wharehouse since they were printed.

Personally I feel if a company cant sell something they should just drop the price, but im not an asshat.



@addnid

Yeah on paper that list is powerful, but a dark angels army or shooty knights army will be a hard counter to it. It will do well in most tournaments unless it hits such a hard counter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/19 15:10:28


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I am still taking my 3 shrikes as one of my FA in a Brigade

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
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There is finally an alternative to biovores from Hydracast. Slightly bigger but looks really good!

http://hydracast.blogspot.com/
   
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 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.

Oddly enough Red Terror is Elite not FA (check his FOC symbol in the book).

Kraken Mycetic Spores are pretty good. They are superior pushback because they cant be taken hostage. Nice in some matchups. Gargoyles also, screen with fly also have usefulness.

   
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 Astmeister wrote:
There is finally an alternative to biovores from Hydracast. Slightly bigger but looks really good!

http://hydracast.blogspot.com/
Wow, that is a mighty fine model. I hope the next time GW resculpts they'll do equally good work (as if )
   
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I never even noticed the red terror being an elite. Why would they put it right in the middle of the fast attack section?
   
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 Badablack wrote:
I never even noticed the red terror being an elite. Why would they put it right in the middle of the fast attack section?


Its a character, if im not mistaking, all characters so far all have been in elites (that werent HQ's)

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 SHUPPET wrote:
How do you guys feel about that? I don't know where I sit on that just yet myself, but part of me definitely feels like I have kinda experienced what he's talking about, it might just be my confirmation bias but this is the only race I really see where there's CONSTANTLY people arguing in favor of bad units, like Mawlocs, Tervigons, Haruspexes, etc, and just fundamentally misunderstanding the units in their logic.


Honestly most people are bad at 40k, so it's not just a Tyranid thing. It's just that they're really kind of gak to paint, and they're rarely top tier competitive, so there aren't a lot of players who have a viable Tyranid army sitting around for when they fit well into the meta. Any time they are fringe competitive, no one is going to bother buying 150+ models, painting them all, and enduring the horde slog (same as green tide), when there are other, easier to field armies that are just as (or possibly more) competitive.

I mean gak, there are lots of armies that have come out of nowhere to win big GTs that everyone is like "HOW?" and most good players just look at it and say, "Yeah, we all knew that could work, but none of us wanted to spend the money/time to do it when we could play something we prefer for less investment".
   
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 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
How do you guys feel about that? I don't know where I sit on that just yet myself, but part of me definitely feels like I have kinda experienced what he's talking about, it might just be my confirmation bias but this is the only race I really see where there's CONSTANTLY people arguing in favor of bad units, like Mawlocs, Tervigons, Haruspexes, etc, and just fundamentally misunderstanding the units in their logic.


Honestly most people are bad at 40k, so it's not just a Tyranid thing. It's just that they're really kind of gak to paint, and they're rarely top tier competitive, so there aren't a lot of players who have a viable Tyranid army sitting around for when they fit well into the meta. Any time they are fringe competitive, no one is going to bother buying 150+ models, painting them all, and enduring the horde slog (same as green tide), when there are other, easier to field armies that are just as (or possibly more) competitive.

I mean gak, there are lots of armies that have come out of nowhere to win big GTs that everyone is like "HOW?" and most good players just look at it and say, "Yeah, we all knew that could work, but none of us wanted to spend the money/time to do it when we could play something we prefer for less investment".


Hmmm. This might have a hand in it. However, I think he's referring to last years LVO results, before Rule of 3 was conceived and back when Tyranids was generally played as just a flock of Flyrants with some Hive Guard and scoring support, something I think a lot of people had access to and wasn't too hard to paint, but Tyranids still couldn't even break top 50, even with Terrain and rules that should by all means benefit them a lot.

Maybe the terrain is not as beneficial as he thinks (I think it's pretty good though), or maybe just spamming Flyrants wasn't actually as good as a lot of people thought and a more TAC list is just better (I suspect this to be the case), but I guess that ties in with his overall point.

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
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Spamming Fly'rants was Not "good". But it was a strong counter to Aeldari so folks were trying to "counter-meta" Ynarri. (IMHO)
   
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Dont forget it was popular b.c players had 5-7 Flyrants from 7th ed, as it was the only playable list, 5-7 Flyrants, rippers, spores, then 300pts of flavor, Malocks, or Lictors, or etc..

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And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.

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 SHUPPET wrote:
And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.


Everyone was saying Genestealers were trash in 5th edition, yet I made it to the top 10 tables of Wargamescon, and there was one other Nid player running an almost identical list who also took I think 3rd in some major GT, and one blogger who was doing very well in GTs with the same base. It was like 6 years ago. We were all using Carnifex with Tyranid Prime deathstars (To abuse the MC/IC rules for joining IC to "units" of MC) and Genestealers, which was a HUGE no no online. The only thing anyone wanted to play was long fang spam, rhino rush, Paladin stars, etc.

The same people were saying the same gak to DashofPepper when he took Orks and crushed a bunch of GTS, then Wyches (With the 3rd edition codex), then Venomspam.

I'm quite used to people telling me what I'm playing sucks and won't work, but I've only ever gone negative in an RTT or GT once, with a charity army I was playing to draw attention to so we could make more $$$ for the raffle. There's a reason a lot of top players don't post on forums, and generally when they do, they eventually just leave because they get tired of being swarmed by idiots.
   
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 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.


Everyone was saying Genestealers were trash in 5th edition, yet I made it to the top 10 tables of Wargamescon, and there was one other Nid player running an almost identical list who also took I think 3rd in some major GT, and one blogger who was doing very well in GTs with the same base. It was like 6 years ago. We were all using Carnifex with Tyranid Prime deathstars (To abuse the MC/IC rules for joining IC to "units" of MC) and Genestealers, which was a HUGE no no online. The only thing anyone wanted to play was long fang spam, rhino rush, Paladin stars, etc.

The same people were saying the same gak to DashofPepper when he took Orks and crushed a bunch of GTS, then Wyches (With the 3rd edition codex), then Venomspam.

I'm quite used to people telling me what I'm playing sucks and won't work, but I've only ever gone negative in an RTT or GT once, with a charity army I was playing to draw attention to so we could make more $$$ for the raffle. There's a reason a lot of top players don't post on forums, and generally when they do, they eventually just leave because they get tired of being swarmed by idiots.


I didnt follow tournaments for nids in 5th as i was in tournaments for martial arts at the time and didnt care for them in 40k.

Now im curious, would have this list been good for 5th tournaments?

With that said, i had 1 list i played, i felt it was a fine list

Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power (Custom made model)
Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power
Hive Guard x3
Hive Guard x3
Doom of Malan'tai + pod (custom made models)
Gargoyles x20 (screen)
2 max Genestealer units and 1 16? or 14? this is the only thing i dont remember

I remember this list very well b.c i only had 2 lists for all of 5th, that and a 2 Prime HQ, 2 Tervigon Troop, with same elites. Its funny that i still remember most of the points.

Net rot, i cant even find information on 5th tournaments lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/21 04:14:27


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 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.


Everyone was saying Genestealers were trash in 5th edition, yet I made it to the top 10 tables of Wargamescon, and there was one other Nid player running an almost identical list who also took I think 3rd in some major GT, and one blogger who was doing very well in GTs with the same base. It was like 6 years ago. We were all using Carnifex with Tyranid Prime deathstars (To abuse the MC/IC rules for joining IC to "units" of MC) and Genestealers, which was a HUGE no no online. The only thing anyone wanted to play was long fang spam, rhino rush, Paladin stars, etc.

The same people were saying the same gak to DashofPepper when he took Orks and crushed a bunch of GTS, then Wyches (With the 3rd edition codex), then Venomspam.

I'm quite used to people telling me what I'm playing sucks and won't work, but I've only ever gone negative in an RTT or GT once, with a charity army I was playing to draw attention to so we could make more $$$ for the raffle. There's a reason a lot of top players don't post on forums, and generally when they do, they eventually just leave because they get tired of being swarmed by idiots.


I didnt follow tournaments for nids in 5th as i was in tournaments for martial arts at the time and didnt care for them in 40k.

Now im curious, would have this list been good for 5th tournaments?

With that said, i had 1 list i played, i felt it was a fine list

Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power (Custom made model)
Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power
Hive Guard x3
Hive Guard x3
Doom of Malan'tai + pod (custom made models)
Gargoyles x20 (screen)
2 max Genestealer units and 1 16? or 14? this is the only thing i dont remember

I remember this list very well b.c i only had 2 lists for all of 5th, that and a 2 Prime HQ, 2 Tervigon Troop, with same elites. Its funny that i still remember most of the points.

Net rot, i cant even find information on 5th tournaments lol.


Yeah, it's a decent list.


5th edition tyranids were fairly strong. The codex was an eclectic mess of ridiculous cheese and utter rubbish, with clearly no thought given to balance. Lots of tyranid players were rightfully annoyed by it, following the popular and fairly well written 4th edition codex. That's where I think the 5th edition complaints largely came from. The poor writing, rather than the strength of the codex.
There were still plenty of strong and fun builds you could make with it.

The doom of malantai was interesting, as it had the potential to wreck non-mechanised lists almost singlehandedly, if they were clustered too closely together. It forced your opponents to spread out their deployment, to limit the number of 3d6 leadership tests it forced them to make.
This combined very well with Ymgarl genestealers, where you wrote down a piece of terrain in secret before the game, and had the genestealers spawn within it when they arrived from reserves. These made your opponent try to cluster their forces on pieces of terrain, to block the genestealers from arriving.
Standard genestealers could arrive from outflank, where they ran in from the sides of the table and charged (no min 9" away, like in 8th. You could appear right next to enemies), forcing your opponent to stay away from the sides of the table.
You could also throw in mawlocs, to punish clustered infantry.

All this together and you were basically dictating your opponents deployment, and forcing them to make some hard choices.

That's not even getting into all the other good stuff, like the tyranid prime + carnifex/prime + guard + swarmlord deathstar shenanigans. Or tervigons (which were awesome).
5th edition was a fun time.


It wasn't until the 6th edition codex that tyranids got bad. I disagree with the assertion that tyranid players couldn't adapt to 6th. That's a massive generalisation about a huge number of players, many of whom play multiple armies. The 6th ed codex really was just legitimately terrible.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/12/21 05:28:50


 
   
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Arson Fire wrote:
It wasn't until the 6th edition codex that tyranids got bad. I disagree with the assertion that tyranid players couldn't adapt to 6th. That's a massive generalisation about a huge number of players, many of whom play multiple armies. The 6th ed codex really was just legitimately terrible.

6th was a badly written codex. I definitely agreed with that since forever. But there was so many more good things than "lol just spam Flyrants", but many people couldn't shake that mentality. There was so much other good stuff. Living Artillery node (and everything within), Lictors, Assassins brood, Mawlocs, Dakkafexes and more thats the top of my head. Master of Ambush was basically a free win 1 out of 3 games if you built for it, I don't think I ever lost a single match when I rolled it. The dex was written badly, but a lot of people couldn't adapt into that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/21 16:15:42


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Also do not forget the Lictorshame list that won a GT in the middle of 6th edition.

The only time Tyranids couldn't really win would be in the post Necron 7th edition with all the Decurion nonsense.
   
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Tyran wrote:
Also do not forget the Lictorshame list that won a GT in the middle of 6th edition.

The only time Tyranids couldn't really win would be in the post Necron 7th edition with all the Decurion nonsense.

Yeah, it was pretty hilarious when that happened, and seeing Jy2 get up on a soapbox to tell Tyranid players that their view of what can work is too narrow, after spending like 100 pages of the thread telling everyone that doing anything other spamming Flyrants was a less competitive choice

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I have to unlurk to jump in on the competitive Tyranids question.

Most players are not top tier competitive players. Tyanids is a faction that has limited appeal to the general pool of players due to the large model count, unusual rules that take time to learn, lack of characters to build narratives around.

Competitive players tend to skew towards the best builds in the armies they play. If a player owns IG, nids, and blood angel's, they are taking the faction/combo that is best between the 3 to LVO.

Between the low overall % of players who play bugs and the incentive to take the strongest possible list you can to major events, you would only expect a few truly good players to be running tyranids at any major event.

This is independent of the actual strength of the codex. When we have a strong codex/build, skilled players who have a Tyranid army might run it instead of whatever else. When we have a weak codex, the reverse might happen. My experience (mid skill player who enjoys tournaments) is this might translate to a 2 or 3 player swing at major events.

Our actual army has been solid but not amazing. We tend to be strong enough to threaten the power builds but not able to stomp 90% of the field. In general, when armys are close to equal, winning tournaments comes down to avoiding bad matchups, getting the bit of luck that gets you 50/50 point wins (vs 46/50), AND being an expert player.

When a faction has 2 expert players in a field of 200, they are much less likely to be the ones who are both good and lucky than the equal strength faction with 20 expert players.
   
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babelfish wrote:
Our actual army has been solid but not amazing. We tend to be strong enough to threaten the power builds but not able to stomp 90% of the field. In general, when armys are close to equal, winning tournaments comes down to avoiding bad matchups, getting the bit of luck that gets you 50/50 point wins (vs 46/50), AND being an expert player.

When a faction has 2 expert players in a field of 200, they are much less likely to be the ones who are both good and lucky than the equal strength faction with 20 expert players.


Nailed it. Nids are not, and havent been for as long as I've played, a high scoring army. We can win almost any matchup, but in the end we will have almost nothing left on the board and the opponent is scrambling to score points before the game ends. It's not a fun way to win for a lot of people, it's physically and mentally exhausting, and you go into very few matchups thinking, "I'm going to roll over this guy".
   
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 Traceoftoxin wrote:
, and you go into very few matchups thinking, "I'm going to roll over this guy".


To be fair if you go into a game knowing that you're going to sweep over and win "easily" against your opponent based on army lists alone then there is something wrong. Either your opponent has built a very bad list or the armies are missmatched at the balance end. In truth what we want is for the game balance to produce close matches where its the player skill and thinking that win the match more than because you've brought the best counterarmy that will just win because its better.

Tyranids are, in my view, right where most of the game factions want to be. Multiple viable rounded builds; nothing supremely outstanding and most of it in the middle. This gives the Tyranid player supreme variety of choice in what they want to field for their army - which lets you play with more of your models, lets you buy and build different things and lets you have a change up in how your army works.
It also makes for more fun matches all round since you're not just steamrolling over opponents nor being steamrolled back. Sure every once and a while its nice to have an easy win; or feel a crushing defeat. But in general the games most people enjoy the most and get the most fun out of are those close matches. Where at the end you're both in a good chance of winning even several turns in and you're thinking, playing and intensely involved in the game .

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Played my first Nid 8th ed game. Lost

Fun tough fight.

I used the double shooting on my Hive Guard when the Trygon and Tyranid Warriors arrived on the board.

I Definatley should have used it on the Tyranid Warriors. WOW they were so effective.

It is a combo I will strive to use again. Also I think I wont put the trygon in charge range and try to keep him out of LOS and just use the Warriors to flank attack a weak element.

With Catalyst....My opponent unloaded his whole army into them and it took 2 full turns to wipe them out....and that was Iron Warriors....so with his dead guys getting some banner or chapter master thing....he rolled more often than not that his guys got to shoot one last time....so it was like 2 extra half turns of shooting.

That unit of Warriors would not die.

It was also my first game facing a titan. The Brood lord put some real pain on it. pretty much solo.


 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
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Yeah multi-wound infantry units with FNP can be tough to take out. I'd love it so much if Warriors could buy +1 armor save for 1 point per model.

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There is no way 3+ armor saves would only cost 1ppm.
5ppm would be fairer.
   
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if marines can get storm shields for 2 points I don't see why not.

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so what are some easy to plan for strategems/psychics and unit combinations.

I'm going with Kraken.

So I have the Trygon bringin up a brood of Warriors and going to use the double shooting stratagem on them.

Can you bring up more than 1 brood/unit.....the FAQ had some changes and it confused me somewhat.

Also IS there anyway to bring in Genestealer unit set up with Infestation Nodes with a different deployment or ONLY thru that ability?

I was thinking the double advanced strat for a large blob of Termagaunts with fleshborers plus the extra 1wound stratagem

Since I have a quad devourer loadout carnifex...the strat that lets 1 extra damage could come in use essentially doubling the wounds....a good use would be vs FNP type units/armies.

I see a lot of rules about falling out and charging....but do any of our units have a strat or option to fall out and shoot? I don't think I saw that?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/23 08:21:23


 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
 
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