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I think part of the reason GK and BA are so over-powered is that within the MEQ niche there's nowhere to go but up (or down lol).
For example with hordes, orks cover melée and guard cover ranged, you couldn't really introduce another horde army that wasn't overly unbalanced.
So I think the following codexes should go:
GK-should be no more than a couple of units in an Inquisitor codex
BA-SM with fast predators
Probably keep Space Wolves and Dark Angels because they're both quite distinctive (remove Long Fang silliness, obviously).
Fact is if, to pick an example, Imperial Guard were as popular as Space Marines, we'd be getting a Cadia codex with rending infantry squads and Catachan codex with infiltrating platoons.

I think the other SM dexes. In a thread similar to this, someone suggested a Codex:Space Marines and a Codex: Chapters of the Astartes.
Your Inquisition dex is a great idea. Why aren't Soritas and GK in one called Codex: Forces of the Inquisiton.

There needs to be one book to rule them all. One SM book, one inquisition book...

Ya, put GK/sisters into a single book and I would also have most of the SM codexs become 1 book.

Um, no. BA aren't really OP, and Grey Knights aren't even THAT amazing.

And besides, the different codexes are supposed to be Marines with different methods of waging war.

Vanilla Marines: Gunline, tough, tactical
Space Wolves: Close combat, heroes
Blood Angels: Speed and deep-striking
Black Templar: Horde-style close combat
Dark Angels: Shooty
Grey Knights: Even more elite than standard Marines, but fewer in number

Although, I do suppose you could have separate codexes for every other army as well. The idea that no codex has anywhere to go but "up" is a silly notion - they should have strengths in certain areas, but they should also be weaker in certain areas.

For instance, Space Wolves lack Combat Tactics.

If the SM get a Codex for each major Chapter with a different tactic, then the Eldar should get one for each Craftworld with a different tactic:

Biel-tan get the Aspects moved into Troops
Ulthwe have all aspects at 0-1, Black Guardian squads, Warlock squads are elite etc etc

Your reasoning could and should apply all armies, or none of them.

Yes let the hatred flow..

DeadlySquirrel wrote:If the SM get a Codex for each major Chapter with a different tactic, then the Eldar should get one for each Craftworld with a different tactic:

Biel-tan get the Aspects moved into Troops
Ulthwe have all aspects at 0-1, Black Guardian squads, Warlock squads are elite etc etc

Your reasoning could and should apply all armies, or none of them.

...Or just Codex: Eldar (Vanilla craftworld and Exodites) and Craftworld of the Eldar.

lets keep fluff out of it.

they do it because marines sell. end of story.

if eldar sold like marines you would see 10 different eldar codexs

Indeed. They are a miniatures company afterall.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Indeed. They are a miniatures company afterall.

yup, keeping that in mind, if anything we will see more. 20 marine flavors each with its own book anyone?


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i heard gw is working on a few new meq books as we speak.

the grey templars - the elite of the grey knights. you only need to buy one squad.

and blood samurai- they are even more jump specialized than blood angels and get fast, cheap land raiders.

and also one chaos one. abbadon's offspring. but that's just a rumour.

:coolface:

Remove Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Black Templars. It's stupid they all have their own dex's anyway.

Harriticus wrote:Remove Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Black Templars. It's stupid they all have their own dex's anyway.

Yeah, please remove four valid armies from the game and piss off every one of their players.

Joey wrote:I think part of the reason GK and BA are so over-powered is that within the MEQ niche there's nowhere to go but up (or down lol).
For example with hordes, orks cover melée and guard cover ranged, you couldn't really introduce another horde army that wasn't overly unbalanced.
So I think the following codexes should go:
GK-should be no more than a couple of units in an Inquisitor codex
BA-SM with fast predators
Probably keep Space Wolves and Dark Angels because they're both quite distinctive (remove Long Fang silliness, obviously).
Fact is if, to pick an example, Imperial Guard were as popular as Space Marines, we'd be getting a Cadia codex with rending infantry squads and Catachan codex with infiltrating platoons.

I don't really think DA deserve a dex TBH, all terminator force? Congrats, just like every other 1st company.

But the Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Chapters Idea is good. Have all the big name chapters- UM, IF, BT, CF etc. all have their own things, because even if they are compliant, they all have their specialties, and in the case of IF, their own LR variant.

And I LOVE your Codex: Inquisition book. It would also allow room for deathwatch which is just awesome.


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Brother SRM wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Remove Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Black Templars. It's stupid they all have their own dex's anyway.

Yeah, please remove four valid armies from the game and piss off every one of their players.

Well it was stupid to introduce them, but they can't just do away with them. People are still mad about them doing that with squats.

They should consolidate them into a single codex.

No way to go but up? I don't agree. They theoretically could make a codex that's 'weaker' than the codex released before it, and people would still buy it and play that army, and it wouldn't really attract the attention of 'hoppers'. Just my .02 dollars

Samus_aran115 wrote:No way to go but up? I don't agree. They theoretically could make a codex that's 'weaker' than the codex released before it, and people would still buy it and play that army, and it wouldn't really attract the attention of 'hoppers'. Just my .02 dollars

This.

All they need to do is make it different enough to have to use different tactics. They don't seem to realize that new units and upgrades is the way to do that, not adding free upgrades and making stuff that's bad cheap enough to be good.

DoctorZombie wrote:Why aren't Soritas and GK in one called Codex: Forces of the Inquisiton.

Because they have little to nothing in common? And no, occasional Inquisition usage doesn't count - Inquisitors can and do requisition any Imperial force.

It'd make more sense to combine every Marine Chapter (sans GK) into a single Codex. If you want to condense, then start with the ONE army that is broken down into various sub-codices for a dozen variants before moving to something more distinctive. Marines deserve their special Codices no more or less than the various Imperial Guard regiments.

Of course, this is argueing purely from an external perspective. In economical terms, I do not believe GW would pursue such a course, given that Marines are and will likely continue to be their cash cow, their popularity being equivalent to the attention they receive from the studio - regardless of how much other armies have to suffer due to this.

Lynata wrote:

DoctorZombie wrote:Why aren't Soritas and GK in one called Codex: Forces of the Inquisiton.

Because they have little to nothing in common? And no, occasional Inquisition usage doesn't count - Inquisitors can and do requisition any Imperial force.

It would be like with DA where you can make a deathwing army, or a ravenwing army, or a normal DA army, choosing between the ordos with some possible overlap à la teaming up.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Well it was stupid to introduce them, but they can't just do away with them. People are still mad about them doing that with squats.

They should consolidate them into a single codex.

I wouldn't say it's stupid; it was goddamn genius from a business perspective. I wouldn't argue with consolidating them into a codex or two though. I think general consolidation is a better route than straight up removal of armies in any system.

Samus_aran115 wrote:No way to go but up? I don't agree. They theoretically could make a codex that's 'weaker' than the codex released before it, and people would still buy it and play that army, and it wouldn't really attract the attention of 'hoppers'. Just my .02 dollars

Like sisters of battle!

im2randomghgh wrote:It would be like with DA where you can make a deathwing army, or a ravenwing army, or a normal DA army, choosing between the ordos with some possible overlap à la teaming up.

Which would be the same for any Imperial force recruited by an Inquisitor - just that you'd see Imperial Guard and Space Marines way more often alongside a single Chamber Militant than one Ordo working with another.

Lynata wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:It would be like with DA where you can make a deathwing army, or a ravenwing army, or a normal DA army, choosing between the ordos with some possible overlap à la teaming up.

Which would be the same for any Imperial force recruited by an Inquisitor - just that you'd see Imperial Guard and Space Marines way more often alongside a single Chamber Militant than one Ordo working with another.

Well I imagine it would have the inquidsition specific units as normal in the codex, and then a FOC slot or two for units from other codices, sorta like how orks have looted wagon which can be anything, except obviously not with one-size fits all stats like the wagon.

Why not release one codex and an expantion for each race?
Codex: Space Marines; Chapters of the Space Marines.
Codex: Imperial Guard; Regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Codex: Dark Eldar; Kabals of the Dark Eldar.
Codex: Eldar; Craftworlds of the Eldar.
Codex: Chaos; Daemons of Chaos; Servants of Chaos.
Codex: Necrons; Dynasties of the Necrons.
Codex: Tyrannids; Hive Fleets of the Tyrannids.
Codex: Tau; Colonies of the Tau.
Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus; Forge Worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Codex: Ordos Imperialis; Forces of the Inquisition; Orders of the Sisters of Battle; Agents of the Imperium.
Codex: Orks; Klans of the Orks.
I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

im2randomghgh wrote:Well I imagine it would have the inquidsition specific units as normal in the codex, and then a FOC slot or two for units from other codices, sorta like how orks have looted wagon which can be anything, except obviously not with one-size fits all stats like the wagon.

SoB are not Inquisition-specific. And why would you force people to buy other Codices for units that make more sense appearing in a battle than those belonging to the Chamber Militant of another Ordo?

Again, if you want to condense, why not start with those armies that have the smallest difference in background/style/rules?

Rabtorian wrote:I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

Lumping in SoB with the Inquisition, but the AdMech gets its own book? I see what you did there.

Rabtorian wrote:Why not release one codex and an expantion for each race?
Codex: Space Marines; Chapters of the Space Marines.
Codex: Imperial Guard; Regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Codex: Dark Eldar; Kabals of the Dark Eldar.
Codex: Eldar; Craftworlds of the Eldar.
Codex: Chaos; Daemons of Chaos; Servants of Chaos.
Codex: Necrons; Dynasties of the Necrons.
Codex: Tyrannids; Hive Fleets of the Tyrannids.
Codex: Tau; Colonies of the Tau.
Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus; Forge Worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Codex: Ordos Imperialis; Forces of the Inquisition; Orders of the Sisters of Battle; Agents of the Imperium.
Codex: Orks; Klans of the Orks.
I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

Oh there would be rage. The expansions would be treated like FW, with some players accepting and some not and RAGE!!!

I'm not sure I'd be able to keep up with it.

Keep it simple, do it the way it is EXCEPT with SM, which either have 2 codices, or all just in one codice with HQs unlocking options that give each major chapter it's own flavour.


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AdMech gets its own book?

I personally would like an Admech codex, but the problem is with as many as there already are...and with more than half of them Imperial...

Lynata wrote:

Rabtorian wrote:I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

Lumping in SoB with the Inquisition, but the AdMech gets its own book? I see what you did there.

The general Imperial codex would be more like several mini-dexes strung together that could be mixed and matched. The SoB would be bigger than the white dwarf codex, with the expansion giving you as much variety as the other codexes. I would lump AdMech in there, but they are literally a seperate entity to the Imperium.

Rabtorian wrote:Why not release one codex and an expantion for each race?
Codex: Space Marines; Chapters of the Space Marines.
Codex: Imperial Guard; Regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Codex: Dark Eldar; Kabals of the Dark Eldar.
Codex: Eldar; Craftworlds of the Eldar.
Codex: Chaos; Daemons of Chaos; Servants of Chaos.
Codex: Necrons; Dynasties of the Necrons.
Codex: Tyrannids; Hive Fleets of the Tyrannids.
Codex: Tau; Colonies of the Tau.
Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus; Forge Worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Codex: Ordos Imperialis; Forces of the Inquisition; Orders of the Sisters of Battle; Agents of the Imperium.
Codex: Orks; Klans of the Orks.
I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

Twice as many army books means even less balance.
We need far fewer races. I think we have too many xenos races but they all seem to "fit".
I'm still not sure about necrons. Call me old school but they just seem a bit...eh. They don't fit into the binary good vs evil world of 40k.

Rabtorian wrote:Why not release one codex and an expantion for each race?
Codex: Space Marines; Chapters of the Space Marines.
Codex: Imperial Guard; Regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Codex: Dark Eldar; Kabals of the Dark Eldar.
Codex: Eldar; Craftworlds of the Eldar.
Codex: Chaos; Daemons of Chaos; Servants of Chaos.
Codex: Necrons; Dynasties of the Necrons.
Codex: Tyrannids; Hive Fleets of the Tyrannids.
Codex: Tau; Colonies of the Tau.
Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus; Forge Worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Codex: Ordos Imperialis; Forces of the Inquisition; Orders of the Sisters of Battle; Agents of the Imperium.
Codex: Orks; Klans of the Orks.
I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

While I kile the theory behind this, I thing some armies don't really need an expansion for their particular variations. My example would be necrons, There really isn't a need to give them a second book, as there aren't any (large ) variations between dynasties. Sure the fluff says that certain SC don't or do do certain things. ( like Zandrehk not using deathmarks or flayed ones), but that's a minor thing that could be easily added to a regular codex. Now for armies like SM, CSM, IG, Eldar etc., Yes this makes great sense. The thing I see as a possible hang is that you'll need the original to use the expansion. Not a big problem if this is how it turned out though.

Joey wrote:

Rabtorian wrote:Why not release one codex and an expantion for each race?
Codex: Space Marines; Chapters of the Space Marines.
Codex: Imperial Guard; Regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Codex: Dark Eldar; Kabals of the Dark Eldar.
Codex: Eldar; Craftworlds of the Eldar.
Codex: Chaos; Daemons of Chaos; Servants of Chaos.
Codex: Necrons; Dynasties of the Necrons.
Codex: Tyrannids; Hive Fleets of the Tyrannids.
Codex: Tau; Colonies of the Tau.
Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus; Forge Worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Codex: Ordos Imperialis; Forces of the Inquisition; Orders of the Sisters of Battle; Agents of the Imperium.
Codex: Orks; Klans of the Orks.
I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

Twice as many army books means even less balance.
We need far fewer races. I think we have too many xenos races but they all seem to "fit".
I'm still not sure about necrons. Call me old school but they just seem a bit...eh. They don't fit into the binary good vs evil world of 40k.

I know what you mean. Necrons are definitely the odd one out, the old ones fit a BIT better, but leaving them as nothing more than passing mention in the Eldar codex about their history would have worked really well. They won't die any time soon though because of new codex. If they happen to get the "squat treatment" a few months into 6ed we might get the ball rolling.

Joey wrote:

Rabtorian wrote:Why not release one codex and an expantion for each race?
Codex: Space Marines; Chapters of the Space Marines.
Codex: Imperial Guard; Regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Codex: Dark Eldar; Kabals of the Dark Eldar.
Codex: Eldar; Craftworlds of the Eldar.
Codex: Chaos; Daemons of Chaos; Servants of Chaos.
Codex: Necrons; Dynasties of the Necrons.
Codex: Tyrannids; Hive Fleets of the Tyrannids.
Codex: Tau; Colonies of the Tau.
Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus; Forge Worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Codex: Ordos Imperialis; Forces of the Inquisition; Orders of the Sisters of Battle; Agents of the Imperium.
Codex: Orks; Klans of the Orks.
I don't see how anybody could be unhappy with the list above, and using a system of expansions could also mean that should GW wish, they could release more content by releasing more expansions.

Twice as many army books means even less balance.
We need far fewer races. I think we have too many xenos races but they all seem to "fit".
I'm still not sure about necrons. Call me old school but they just seem a bit...eh. They don't fit into the binary good vs evil world of 40k.

It's a fair point, though I think it would allow for post codex release balancing without a 5-page FAQ, though I'm not sure where you get the binary good vs evil thing from. In 40k, there are only bad guys of various degrees of evil.