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I have a friend with 'nids who intends to use the tactic Endless Swarm during apoc play. Even though I want to build a titan, after reading it, and the rules associated with it, I find it quite broken. However, there is a catch. I cannot find without number in any of my books, PDF's Errata, the only place I've found it outside of the breif mention of it in Apocalypse was on a website saying it was "forgotten" but as it wasn't a games workshop website, its debatable. So, is Without number functioning in 5th edition or was it outplaced?

By the way, the reason I find it broken is the Instinctive Behaviors of the 2 who basicly do what you'd want them to do in the first place if they go instinctive. Lurk puts them into terrain and has them shoot out of it (yeah, they don't just hide, they can shoot too) and the others charge headlong into your troops. And none of this requires a synaptic, so if you kill hte synaptic, they still keep coming, its just a waiting game till turn 7 and your not getting any victory points.

Sounds like the 4th edition biomorph you could put on ...Termagants? I think it was termagants. If you kept them under 8 points, they would just keep coming back.

But that was 4th edition.

The ability is listed as a special rule in the Apoc rules, so thats kinda where I'm stuck, I don't want to tell my friend I won't play him in Apoc just because of that rule, but I also don't want to just sit there and wait for the game to be over, its boring.

Outdated rule, doesnt work anymore as far as i know.

However, Apoc is exactly the place where you get to do cool gak like that. Outdated Lost and the Damned codex makes great mutant-spam auxiliaries for CSM, for instance. If you've got access to the Imperial Guard book, it's basically Chenkov's Send in the Next Wave, but you can't kill the gaunts early and they must be under 8 points per model.

Without Synapse they aren't fearless.
The only thing that can be endless swarmed is gaunts, right? You're afraid of a bunch of 12" range Assault 1 BS3 guns?

Seriously, without Synapse that formation is pathetic.

No no, your misunderstanding what bugs me about it. Your basicly just sitting there blasting away at things and getting nothing for it, you get no victory points, and even if you wipe out all the oppnents units, he's not out because they keep coming back...basicly the tactic becomes a stall tactic, and makes the game boring and annoying

xaviorbat wrote:No no, your misunderstanding what bugs me about it. Your basicly just sitting there blasting away at things and getting nothing for it, you get no victory points, and even if you wipe out all the oppnents units, he's not out because they keep coming back...basicly the tactic becomes a stall tactic, and makes the game boring and annoying

But... you can avoid that unit. You can ignore it completely because they have such a short range. If they get in the way, blast them till they fail a morale test.
If that unit is all he has left on the board, he's lost the game - not because the rules say so, but because a bunch of termagants are not going to accomplish anything without Synapse.

xaviorbat wrote:No no, your misunderstanding what bugs me about it. Your basicly just sitting there blasting away at things and getting nothing for it, you get no victory points, and even if you wipe out all the oppnents units, he's not out because they keep coming back...basicly the tactic becomes a stall tactic, and makes the game boring and annoying

Actually, you get victory and killpoints for every squad you destroy. So if you get an advantage early on, your can continue to bombard the bugs as they walk on to the board, getting you further and further ahead.

rigeld2 wrote:But... you can avoid that unit. You can ignore it completely because they have such a short range. If they get in the way, blast them till they fail a morale test.
If that unit is all he has left on the board, he's lost the game - not because the rules say so, but because a bunch of termagants are not going to accomplish anything without Synapse.

The Apoc tactic i'm referencing lets him also use it for Hormagaunts, not just termagaunts, so he gets both lurk and feed, and the feed action is considered raging.

DarkHound wrote:[Actually, you get victory and killpoints for every squad you destroy. So if you get an advantage early on, your can continue to bombard the bugs as they walk on to the board, getting you further and further ahead.

Really? because the only version of the without number rule i've been able to find has said that you get no victory points. And I have seen other units that state they don't conceed victory points, so it seems possible, just highly highly annoying. And really this is just one big rule I'm trying to knock out, we already had a discussion about the Mawloc's Terror from the Deep ability, vs my titan, still doesn't make sense because he can technically push it off the table (though titan stats are borked anyway but thats for another topic)

xaviorbat wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:But... you can avoid that unit. You can ignore it completely because they have such a short range. If they get in the way, blast them till they fail a morale test.
If that unit is all he has left on the board, he's lost the game - not because the rules say so, but because a bunch of termagants are not going to accomplish anything without Synapse.

The Apoc tactic i'm referencing lets him also use it for Hormagaunts, not just termagaunts, so he gets both lurk and feed, and the feed action is considered raging.

Still - one failed morale check and the swarm runs away. Horms have a pretty high chance of failure with their 6 leadership. Throw a dreadnaught at the swarm - they can't hurt it, you kill one model, they have to leadership test at a 5.

xaviorbat wrote:Really? because the only version of the without number rule i've been able to find has said that you get no victory points.

I actually happen to have the book. Since it isn't a current rule, I feel safe writing the entire thing out. Under the Gaunt entry (what is now called Termagants) of the 4th edition book:

Codex Tyranids wrote:Any brood of Gaunts with a cost of 8 points or less per model may be given the Without Number special rule at a cost of +3 points per model. Any brood Without Number that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beinning of the next Tyranid turn. It moves onto the board from the Tyranid player's board edge and has exactly the same profile and armaments as its predecessor. Victory Points are scored as usual for the unit and its replacements as if they were entirely separate broods.

Ah ok, thats not as bad I guess, as long as I get SOMETHING out of it, otherwise unlimited units is pointless to fight against.