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Hello everyone,
(This is not supposed to be a rant)

I often feel like there is a strong anti-Cadian vibe among many war gamers. It is not exactly uncommon for people to call the Cadians the most boring and standard forces in the Imperium.
I really can't see how they are boring or generic except maybe for the fact that:
A. They are most commonly used since the majority of standard plastic boxes contain Cadians, which makes them the most seen on the tables.
B. They aren't specialized on a certain field, but rather serve as average foot soldiers. (Unlike Elysian's with their air. cav. style, Krieg's trench feeling, Catachan's jungle/guerrilla style etc)

So yeah I see how on the surface they might seem generic; to that extent they are pretty plain (but then again you can't fight every war with air cav or with guerrilla forces...)
But on the other hand there are so many things that make Cadians really, really, really awesome/badassed:
- They are the principal point of defense against the eye of terror and the horrors that emerge thereof. A constant struggle against some of the most horrible forces in existence and a world always under siege; how is that lame?
- Since the DKOK and Catachans get so much credit for the fact that large parts of their population are militarized, why don't the Cadians? The fluff says that being born a Cadian basically makes you a soldier.
- Still, while being under siege and having most of the population used for the military, they are known through out the Imperium of some of the best soldiers. There might be many of them, but for Imperial soldiers, they are the crème de la crème. Considering the incredible danger they face, they still export considerably elite troops.
- They are often considered over glorified poster boys. I don't see how, the whole idea of Cadia seems grim dark as **** to me (without excessive gore and skulls...) I mean, a planet where the only choice to not be slaughtered is to condemn an entire planet to a tradition of war , where the individual freedom is pretty much limited by the people''s field of operation and youngsters have to survive in the "white shield" troops to get some recognition. The Cadian life really boils down to a sort of between a rock and a hard place" life and is really dark considering that most of their lives and deaths will only postpone the next chaos attack, but still keep afloat the Imperium and leaves room for heroes.
- Their whole planet seems to be a mystery (weird pylons and stuff...)
- Cadians can take up most any form of war and master it. From elite special forces teams, to trench warfare specialized armies or covert ops jungle warfare forces, I think most exist in some bit of fluff or can be made up without breaking the fluff.
- It never gets boring on Cadia. With every black crusade, something is bound do gone down on or at least near Cadia. If the Lexicanum does not betray me, it seems like there are Chaos forces controlling parts of Cadia at the current moment in fluff while the Imperium seem to have the upper hand in space.

So in the end, the Cadians armies have huge variety, leave a lot upon to imagination, all the while having very cool fluff, stuff going on, mysteries and an important struggle on their home planet.
So except for the fact that they are the main representatives of the 40k franchises Imperial army, what makes them worse than the DKOK, the lads from Armageddon, or Arnie and his pals from Catachan? I mean, you can't say that Cadians lack personality when compared to the DKOK (I know that's their thing and it works well, but it is no argument against Cadia when you prefer artificially breed trench warfare soldiers indistinguishably clothed in coats and gas masks... ) or say that Cadians are over glorified when Catachans beat Chaos Marines with their fists, then wrestle a 12 foot scorpion and crack one liners without breaking a sweat. As every army has their appeal, I think Cadians are just less specific, but by no means generic as in boring.

If anyone feels free to object, I would love to hear where the hate comes from.
(And please excuse any possible fluff errors, I will admit to not being an expert)

I read "how are Canadians boring"
But i thinks its because they are the default, just like smurfs the army is mostoly centered around and all the kits so you may have to work harder to make a different force.

hotsauceman1 wrote:I read "how are Canadians boring"
But i thinks its because they are the default, just like smurfs the army is mostoly centered around and all the kits so you may have to work harder to make a different force.

I have to agree with bronie.
But anyway the Cadians are just boring they have no flavor to them. They are just round headed helmeted guys. Nothing really special about them.

Asherian Command wrote:
But anyway the Cadians are just boring they have no flavor to them. They are just round headed helmeted guys. Nothing really special about them.

Yeah, but that is the part I don't get. Why don't they have flavor provided all the back ground and variety they've got?
And why are they less special then the DKOK for instance, whose soldiers are actually not distinguishable? Coming to think of it, every army is full of indistinguishable "various-shape headed helmet" guys. I just don't see how Cadians seem so generic next to faceless Space Marines, other rank and file guardsmen or any other infantry. Not that I dislike the whole wh40k setting, but the Cadia hate seems to me like calling out on a football because of its shape, but being completely cool with a basketball (if that comparison makes any sense )

I just find the cadian models visually boring.

The reason Im going with DKoK models is because I wanted a germanesque trenchcoat army.

This is all just specaulation on my part, but I would guess that any accusations of them being boring are based on the models. By that, I mean that if you want to play IG it's cheaper to go for plastic models than an army with loads of metal or resin , and (just in my opinion) out of Cadians and Catachans Cadians have more of a "generic sci-fi soldier" look to them (further backed up by the IG codex mentioning how Cadian-style equipment is used by many regiments). Thus, Cadians come to be seen as the bog-standard IG guys (perhaps similar to Ultramarines being ridiculed for being "poster boys?").

It's because the models are fairly generic. They're supposed to be though; if everyone was as ostentatious as Grey Knights then how special would they look? A lot of the backlash is also from people who miss the old metal Cadians too, who had a somewhat different look.

Personally, I like every IG regiment pretty well. I love the ridiculousness of Catachans, the brutal WW1 aesthetics of DKoK, and everything from there to the standard Cadians.

Personally, I like their simple, rugged aesthetic. They dress to go to war and fight. Nothing more.

Back in the all metal (METAL!) days of 2nd and early 3rd edition Cadians were the most popular force (based on internet and game store comments). Of course they looked like this...



And if you ignore the candy apple red guns they look pretty good and military.

The plastics however are just dull, they got a resounding Meh when they came out and have not aged well in the last 10 years.

The fluff is another issue. Just as we're always told how great the Ultramarines are, we also hear again and again how great the Cads are it's just not supported in the rules. GW can go on and on about how they are the last line against chaos but rules-wise they're just guard. So they feel hyped while other regiments are a bit more reasonable in their fluff.

Finally, going back to the models is the lack of options. The plastic Cads are a typical half-assed job by GW missing half their special weapon options and with no heavy weapons (compare to the Marines who get all their specials and one heavy in their basic box). There's no alternate heads, no way to really make vets, conscripts or penal legion out of the box.

If GW threw in another sprue with weapon options and head options the Cadian models would get a lot more love.

At least the Cads can rest easy knowing the Catachans (WHOLE ARMY IS RAMBO!) are far more hated.

As it is now, they look like they're wearing pajamas and skateboarding equipment.

Fafnir wrote:As it is now, they look like they're wearing pajamas and skateboarding equipment.

Lol true.

I think Cadians are awesome- they're based off the Red Army!

You know with the flourishing of the dual use kits you would think they could at least offer some options on a guard kit, different helmets or hats or something. Lets hope the redo it soon.

I personally really like Cadians. Whenever I read an Imperial Guard centered novel, I always think to myself "what would it be like if they had been cadians?".

Their models aren't bad to me. They look pretty cool to me. I'm glad that a good looking model is the posterchild of the Imperial Guard ranges, it could be a heck of a lot worse.

People don't like them for what I would imagine as being annoyed that they are the model that all the new/ young players would use. These players get annoying. Thus the models are annoying. Also, these players usually aren't the best at painting. Making people annoyed to play poorly painted models.

Lastly, Cadians have Kasrkin. That should be enough for people to like them.

Captain Destructo wrote:I think Cadians are awesome- they're based off the Red Army!

Um no. They may be awesome but they're not based on the Red Army, the Valhallans are.

Cadians believe it or not are based on Canadian Shock Troops.

Cadians have repelled at least 11.5 Black Crusades (12th was in the Gothic Sector and the 13th was a stalemate) and have fought across the Imperium in almost every major battle.

Cadia is also responsible for the creation of Ursarkar E. Creed...I rest my case.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Captain Destructo wrote:I think Cadians are awesome- they're based off the Red Army!

Um no. They may be awesome but they're not based on the Red Army, the Valhallans are.

Cadians believe it or not are based on Canadian Shock Troops.

That's interesting got a sauce on that?
@OP
Part of it is because, unlike with space marines where blue=ultramarines, you can paint Cadians any colour and they will still basically be Cadians. I've painted mine in Victorian British attire, Scarlet and Beige. Sure they look cool, but they're still Cadians.
Cadia itself is pretty lame though. Population 800 million...that's pretty underwealming.
Unless the total population of Cadians throughout the universe is actually huge, since most of them will be in the Guard. But the fluff doesn't mention or support that, so we're stuck with a planet smaller than some Earth countries.

I'm fine with Cadians... when I'm facing them. I think the problem is that Cadians are just the ordinary guard, and with anything ordinary, it gets a bit old at some point. Personally, I would go for vostroyans if I played guard.

Joey wrote:
Cadia itself is pretty lame though. Population 800 million...that's pretty underwealming.
Unless the total population of Cadians throughout the universe is actually huge, since most of them will be in the Guard. But the fluff doesn't mention or support that, so we're stuck with a planet smaller than some Earth countries.

When has GW ever proven themselves to be good with numbers?

Asherian Command wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:I read "how are Canadians boring"
But i thinks its because they are the default, just like smurfs the army is mostoly centered around and all the kits so you may have to work harder to make a different force.

I have to agree with bronie.
But anyway the Cadians are just boring they have no flavor to them. They are just round headed helmeted guys. Nothing really special about them.

Yeah, but thats no different to any other IG regiment.

Catachans are tough jungle guys.

Krieg are trench coat guys.

Elysians are drop troops.

So on and so forth. None of them are any more or less boring than the others.

They just look very dull compared to other planet troopers.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Cadians believe it or not are based on Canadian Shock Troops.

I was rather led to believe they were based off of 1950s-1990s NATO troops, considering all of the IG Regiments are a mish-mash of uniforms from different conflicts - for example Mordians have a distinct 1850s-1900s Imperial/Colonial troop feeling, whilst DKoK cover WW1 French, Belgian & Germans (with a dash of British in there).

My big problem with Cadians is with the plastic models. I've never liked their helmets, the detail on the models is often lacking and I'm sick and tired of building and painting the damned things, since they were re-released years ago. I loved the old metal Cadians, they were my third favourite after Mordians & Valhallans (Praetorians were awesome but I never did get ahold of any). The new ones? Ugh, I just don't like them. I didn't mind them at first but now...

I think what annoys many people is how they are often thrown into almost every conflict across the Imperium regardless of how close/far it is from Cadia. For example with the computer game Space Marine it is somehow a group of Cadians on a Forgeworld - no sign of Skitarii or Techpriests, just Cadians. Dawn of War games it's Cadians. They just crop up time and again and I'd rather they didn't. There's a whole two page spread in the old 3rd Ed. Guard Codex with so many different regiments it's annoying that they don't introduce them or re-introduce older regiments like Mordians or Tallarn.

The Death Korp I find to be fascinating. What is important with the Death Korp is their faceless imagery. They're nameless, faceless killers who obey their orders to the letter or die trying. I could think of nothing more terrifying, if I were a human in the 41st millenium, of seeing a gasmasked line of Korpsmen advancing towards me in silence - I would need a new set of fatigues very quickly! They are like the 'Tomb of the Unknown Soldier'; no-one knows who the Unknown Soldier is or was, where he died, how he died or who killed him. No-one knows how long his body lay on the fields of France, it is just a skeleton brought back to England and interred as a reminder of the many. Krieg reflect that in 40k for me - faceless, expressionless, emotionless, unknown.

Cadians aren't boring, but chances are, if you play IG you're going to have at least some Cadians.

When playing against other regiments they're often a lot more rare since they are either difficult to customize and are moderately expensive (metal regiments) to the downright need a mortgage to create resin regiments.

So when you play against most IG players you'll see oh, it's Cadians again, while when you see a regiment such as the Death Korps, it's pretty much, hey cool! I haven't seen anyone use these models for before!

Also the 2nd edition Cadians were also so much more badass. They looked like the guys from the Starship troopers movie while the new guys kinda look like American Football players.

I don't mind them and happily use them for my guard. Although If I am honest, I would probably prefer Mordian/Praetorian plastics, or Tanith styled troops over them if I could.

Ideal force of course is the Necromundian Spiders, but that would require either Necromunda to return with plastic gangs, or a bizarre choice for GW on their next Guard Plastics release for me to get what I'm after.
Atm metal/Plastic conversion would be way too much hassle.

For me, it's appearance. DKoK look awesome, cadians look like crap. The bodies are boring, and their helmets look ridiculously proportioned and gigantic. Can't stand them. I prefer catachans even.

Cadians aren't boring. Just like smurfs aren't boring. We've just seen them so many times that they don't have that 'Awe' factor that drops your jaw. If you tacked on DKOK models with Cadian fluff, suddenly every player would love Cadians. It comes down to the common models and the lack of serious detail. Now, look at Digits' Drogan log. He used cadians and, with some converting and greenstuff, turned them into a gorgeous, fluffy, eye-catching force. I have done similar. However, when I field my Elysians with my Cadians, it is always the Elysians who get the attention. Elysian fluff is pretty weak too. Cadians are boring because it is up to the player to make them exciting. They are simple so that they can be converted, messed with, and coolified. Get some accessories from FW, you'll see how quick people change their mind about cadians at your FLGS. Look at how GK's do. People love GK's because of the gorgeous models. But try as you might, converting will pretty much yield just different looking GK's. Cadians can be Macragge PDF, Drogans, Merican Lancers, etc.

Versatility is boring until you do something with it.

For the record, Kid Kyoto's "Canadian Shock Trooper" piece is a long-running joke here on Dakka.

That said, Cadians are far from "boring". They are called such because just like the scions of Ultramar, they have a negative connotation associated with them because they're "vanilla". Nobody wants to be the same, everyone wants to be unique. It's why everyone wants alternate models from elsewhere, whether it's Mantic's not-Canadian "Corporation" troopers, Rackham's AT-43 guys, Fantasy Flight Games' Dust Tactics models, Forge World's Death Korps or Elysian models--people want something which will be different right out of the box.

For myself? Cadia is where I'll always hang my imaginary spacesoldier helmet. The Wardens of the Gate are hardcore, through and through. Whether stopping Chaos cold on their homeworld or demo charging their way through glacier walls to get at Eldar on the other side in Imperial Armour 11--these boys got my attention and have held it for years now.

What made the Cadians boring for me was the fact that my store already has 6 IG players... and they all play Cadians. One guys has a few Catachans, but they're badly painted and he doesn't use them anymore. I wanted to use a different army other than "generic sci-fi soldiers" and so I started looking into other regiments. I didn't want to be yet another Cadian player lumped in with the others.

If you're so confused why, look up, in no particular order, Starship Troopers MI troopers (from the movie, the TV show guys looked cooler and had powered armor), Halo's Marines, Aliens Marines, and pretty much any other typically seen sci-fi infantry. Then you'll see why a lot of people don't want to use them. They're generic, even if they have cool backstory and the forgeworld models look cool, the basic plastic guys you get out of the box look like typical plastic army men. In a way, they're even more faceless then the DKoK, because even though they have faces, they're all literally the same. Whereas the DKoK are SUPPOSED to look like that, with the Cadians it comes off as though they were lazy with the models almost.

"But don't all the other armies suffer from this problem as well?" you might ask, well yeah, of course they do, but there's more to it than that. Imperial Guard are made up of normal men and women, aka us. We aren't orks, we aren't necrons, and we sure as hell aren't spacemarines, so we don't worry as much about them being more uniform in appearance. However, when it comes to average people, we know just how varied humans can be, and like to believe we're different. Seeing a ton of cadians that all literally look the same can come across as kind of boring or unsettling. DKoK do this intentionally, which shows how this can be done correctly. Cadians on the other hand were an accident (or at least I hope they were) and were not meant to be faceless masses.

Now, look at DKoK, Mordian Iron Guard, Armegeddon's Steel Legion, Valhallan's Ice Warriors, the awesome Vostroyan's, or one of the many custom made IG regiments that are all over this site. They have character, a unique personality, something that makes them stand out. How many Vostroyan styled armies have you seen in sci-fi stuff? Valhallans? Steel Legion? I guarantee you it won't be nearly as many as Cadian styled armies. Then throw in most players use Cadian models, and it only strengthens the fact that players get tired of seeing them all the time and want to stand out.

It's not that the Cadians themselves are necessarily bad, just that they're common. If I was the only IG player at my store, I might use them myself, but with 6 others I just can't bring myself to do it. I also think in the codex when it says "Cadian equipment is so good almost all other regiments use it as well" it kind of had an "ultramarines" effect, where it comes across as saying, yeah, other regiments are cool, but they'll never be as good as Cadians.

Long story short, each person will have their own reason for disliking cadians, but basically it boils down to this: Imperial Guard is made out of the average joe, in all his shapes and forms. Having 100 Cadians that all look the same flies in the face of the idea that each soldier in the Guard is a unique human being, with his own life stories, goals, and ambitions. Some people like this, some people hate this, and some just don't care. That's where the differences in opinion comes from, and as long as this army is around, this'll continue.

Either way, we're all IG here, and we all love tanks, guns, and crushing the enemy beneath hundreds of boots, so everyone wins!

Cadians are boring for the same reason Ultramarines are considered boring: they're on the box.

I love Cadians, they are my favorite IG Regiment.
I don't found them boring at all, simply because unlike Space Marines they are ordinary men and women holding the line against galaxies biggest evil.
And their specialty is Marksmanship and Discipline. And they are regarded as some of the best of the Guard Regiment, short only to Space Marines themselves.