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Hi, I was just wondering if anyone has any advice on whether or not Abaddon is worth taking at this level of points. I'm interested to try using him with my Word Bearers as a Dark Apostle.

Cheers in advance!

Others will say no. I say yes. Why?

The same reason anything happens ever: For "Teh lulz".

Seriously though, he can be evil at this points level on his own, just expect to have every anti tank weapon pointed at him when he arrives.

liquidjoshi wrote:Others will say no. I say yes. Why?

The same reason anything happens ever: For "Teh lulz".

It can always be for the lols!

liquidjoshi wrote:just expect to have every anti tank weapon pointed at him when he arrives.

Right, so if you can make it so that anti-tank weapons are already pointing at something else, or you have something else worth taking anti-tank weapons off of at 1500, then go for it.

The problem is that abbadon has beatstick properties all his own, but in order to get the most out of him, you've really got to give him support, as in, some other termies and a land raider or something. Alone and improperly supported, his style can get awfully cramped. Of course, at 1500, the price of a fully-effectual abbadon is going to be half your points. If what you want to run is an Abbadon list, then fine, but if you're just trying to shoehorn him into an already existent 1250 point list, I probably wouldn't bother.

Yeah, 'Baddy on one side of the board, two defilers down the other. Sure, one side will end up dead, but when the other hit's it'll be painful.

No, now I'm giving bad advice. Abaddon at this points level isn't a brilliant idea but it can work. Deep strike with a cheap Termie deathstar, maybe with MoT or MoN depending on what you're facing might work, making sure you have icons down there before he drops.

Or you could just go Kharn-raider.

Abaddon is not realy viable at 1500 points. He is simply far too expensive. Unless you wish to have him walk across the board ( bad idea ) he needs a transport, a Landraider to be more exact.
This brings his cost to about 500 points and leaves you with only 1000 points for the other necessary parts of your army including a squad for Abaddon, unless you want him to fight on his own.
In my oppinion taking Abaddon at 1500 points sacrifices too much for a single, not even particularly dangerous (loyalist Thunderhammer termies, which cost the same amount of points and have access to a much better transport, are far more dangerous/ once the raider is imobilised Abaddon can be avoided/ relatively easily shoot down ), close combat character.

edit: Never ever put Abaddon into a unit of chaostermies unless you want to witness him run down by a sweeping advance/ running of the board.

thanks for all the advice, I'll bear it in mind!

I once used Abaddon and Typhus with 6 Plague Marines in a Land Raider for a 1500 point game. It was freaking hilarious, but I'd have to say I wouldn't really want to do it again Sinking that amount of points into a single unit at such a low point level means your force is SERIOUSLY deficient in every other area

I reckon you could just about pull Abby off on his own at 1500, but as Ailaros said, you'll have to tailor the whole army around him. 1750 is when I normally crack the bad man out.

Ive run abaddon in 1250 game and he owns

what you do is take 4 troops choices with champions they can be plague marines or bezerkers in rhinos but the key is that you give the champions PERSONAL ICONS so that abaddon can deep strike onto their location and not scatter

then watch him tear everything to sht in close combat an save the game

Is he really that much better than a berzerker champ with a fist though? Sure he is more survivable, but the berzerker champ has a bunch of ablative wounds.

Kevlar wrote:Is he really that much better than a berzerker champ with a fist though? Sure he is more survivable, but the berzerker champ has a bunch of ablative wounds.

The Zerker champ can't ID a good 80% of the HQ's in the game at I6 in melee. Or single-handedly pulp a squad of 10 Death Company despite the fact that they got the charge on him.

Then again, the champ doesn'y have a 1 in 6 chance of sleeping for a turn, but my zerker champ has wiffed in CC more than a few times. So nothing is certain, but in my games at least Abbie has been reliable. We play at 1850, though. That gives you some wiggle room for his ride.

I should also note that if he's worth taking at all, he's worth taking at 1500 points. Virtually no character actually gets better as points slide up, and it's not like abbadon gets WORSE as the number of points goes down.

Really, it's what percentage of your strategy to revolve around abbadon? If you're willing to sink a third of your points into abbadonery, then take him in a 750 pt game, and that's fine. If you're not, then just take him once the points level drives the percentage down to personal taste (the points level being compounded by things previously mentioned).

It's not that he gets worse the fewer points you have, so much as he needs to be a more core part of your strategy.

Sephyr wrote:

Kevlar wrote:Is he really that much better than a berzerker champ with a fist though? Sure he is more survivable, but the berzerker champ has a bunch of ablative wounds.

The Zerker champ can't ID a good 80% of the HQ's in the game at I6 in melee. Or single-handedly pulp a squad of 10 Death Company despite the fact that they got the charge on him.

Then again, the champ doesn'y have a 1 in 6 chance of sleeping for a turn, but my zerker champ has wiffed in CC more than a few times. So nothing is certain, but in my games at least Abbie has been reliable. We play at 1850, though. That gives you some wiggle room for his ride.

The berzerker champ can indeed ID anyone that Abbaddon can ID. And he can do it without being affected by mindshackle scarabs or other tom-foolery. Going at initiative 1 doesn't matter when he can't be singled out as a target and has 9 guys standing in front of him to soak wounds. Abbaddon is a great character, just not as great as 10 berzerkers with a fist, which is about what he costs.

Ailaros wrote:I should also note that if he's worth taking at all, he's worth taking at 1500 points. Virtually no character actually gets better as points slide up, and it's not like abbadon gets WORSE as the number of points goes down.

Really, it's what percentage of your strategy to revolve around abbadon? If you're willing to sink a third of your points into abbadonery, then take him in a 750 pt game, and that's fine. If you're not, then just take him once the points level drives the percentage down to personal taste (the points level being compounded by things previously mentioned).

It's not that he gets worse the fewer points you have, so much as he needs to be a more core part of your strategy.

This is not quite true. At lower point costs, expensive characters eat into the budget of other things you need: transports, anti-armor, maybe deep-striking specialists. Putting it simply: The point difference between Kharn the betrayer and Abaddon is the cost of a basic termicide unit. Or a single Obliterator, plus a rhino for one of your squads. So while no character gets worse as points decrease, the do objectively harm the functionality of their army.


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Kevlar wrote:

The berzerker champ can indeed ID anyone that Abbaddon can ID. And he can do it without being affected by mindshackle scarabs or other tom-foolery. Going at initiative 1 doesn't matter when he can't be singled out as a target and has 9 guys standing in front of him to soak wounds. Abbaddon is a great character, just not as great as 10 berzerkers with a fist, which is about what he costs.

But he can't ever do it before they strike, thus saving the lives of your squad. And the zerkers can still eat psychostroke grenades and hit themselves, so they are not quite free from new codex shanigans. He can be singled out by a Vindicare outside of CC, and unlike Abaddon, won't take more than a single shot.

I love my zerkers, but sometimes, especially in larger games, it's nice to have a threat that won't vanish from a lucky battlecannon shot or be chewed apart by a bloodtalon Dread.

Sephyr wrote:

But he can't ever do it before they strike, thus saving the lives of your squad. And the zerkers can still eat psychostroke grenades and hit themselves, so they are not quite free from new codex shanigans. He can be singled out by a Vindicare outside of CC, and unlike Abaddon, won't take more than a single shot.

I love my zerkers, but sometimes, especially in larger games, it's nice to have a threat that won't vanish from a lucky battlecannon shot or be chewed apart by a bloodtalon Dread.

Oh, Abbaddon has his plusses. Its just you give up so much for him at 1500 points. Can he out perform a full squad of zerkers? Most likely not. At 2500 points or so when you have plenty of room to include expensive things he is great. At 1500 where you struggle to max out many of your FOC slots I think I'd rather have the 10 scoring bodies that can wreck just as much face as he can.

Kevlar wrote:
Oh, Abbaddon has his plusses. Its just you give up so much for him at 1500 points. Can he out perform a full squad of zerkers? Most likely not. At 2500 points or so when you have plenty of room to include expensive things he is great. At 1500 where you struggle to max out many of your FOC slots I think I'd rather have the 10 scoring bodies that can wreck just as much face as he can.

No argument there. I use him from 2000 points and up mostly because:

1-I already field a Land Raider anyway for my serkers, so it's not like I'm bringing it just to dribe Abaddon around.

2- He replaces Kharn leading my zerkers. Kharn is great, but he kills his pals so often that, while fun. it usually means I am down a troop choice by midgame if you add his teamkills and the enemy focusing them. Abaddon actually helps the zerkers a lot, since I can allocate plasma, melta and other low-AP wounds on him to save the zerkers. I can also split him to assault 2 targets right out of the Land Raider without being afraid of him being instantly IDed from a power fist or lascannon, so it's like having 2 squads of zerkers riding a single Land Raider!

3- Don't understimate his shock effect on players who aren't veterans. Like Draigo, the Swarmlord and other heavyweights, people can go a bit crazy when he's on the table and bungle their strategy.