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topaxygouroun i wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Boneswords are far better.

For 1 extra point you gain another attack and -1ap all the time.

I'd almost rather scything talons that the rending claws on warriors if I was trying to save points.


Venom cannons are not bad with the points reduction, but they don't put out much more damage than deathspitters on average actually. They pull ahead againgst primaris equivalent and armor, but loose out againgst most anything else for the points.


How do you get an extra attack with boneswords over rending claws?


Boneswords just give you one additional attack with them. Like a chainsword does.
   
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topaxygouroun i wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.


With the huge volume of attacks from 28 warriors and Ws 2+, I prefer to have the occational -4 ap to rend through a 2+ armor rather than the static +1 ap. Maybe I'm wrong, but sometimes I need to be able to open some metal cans.
Statistically speaking the boneswords are better against almost any target except T8. Mostly because of that extra attack.
   
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I think you can make a playable Warrior based army. Though I don't think Kronos would be my first choice. But that depends on your meta. Kronos Warriors have Deeper shadows baked in. But Leviathan gives 6++ to Warriors, and Jormangandr gives "always get some cover" and Tunneling assault. I think tossing in Venoms is a perfectly "OK" thing to do, but it is not mandatory.

A couple of folks who post here use Warrior based armies, One Leviathan, the other I think tries several Fleets. Maybe they can chime in.
   
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Bergen

I am a cassual player, but I often runn 2 groups of 9 waariors and a prime.

3 VC, Bone Sword
2 Lash whip and sword+ deathspitter
4 with deathspitter scything tallons
all AG

AG is only 9 points, and is a very low investment for safty and consistensy. Or even range.

The VC ads nice support where you need it. Random as hell, but OK, and good reach. Good with the 2x shooting if your hive guards are dead.

The lash whips can be funn as you often have to pile in towards the nearest model. They can allow you to partisipate in combat and still shoot when it is you turn.

I ruun mine with leviathan. That 6+++ is frustrating vs flat 3 damage weapons. Alså, the stratagem is golden if you can activate it.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

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topaxygouroun i wrote:
Post Chapter approved, how good an army base of 3x9 Kronos warriors with deathspitters/venom cannons + tyranid prime for the buff would be?

On paper that's 9 venom cannons plus 25 deathspitters, hitting at 3+ with reroll 1's. Or, 9d3 missile launchers and 25 heavy bolters with added mobility for 850ish pts. Then supplement the rest of the list as needed.

You can also pay the rending claws and now your gunline can protect itself as well.

Do you think something like that could work?


IMO best Warrior loadout is DS and BS, super cheap and very effective, +1attack with -2ap for 2pts is the best melee weapon in game IMO, and DS are 1/2 price HB that are assault with shorter range, if Marines have Deathspitters and BS they would be the best army in game.

But, Knights can counter them extremely well, Warriors are good, but a Warrior army is very Rock, Paper, Scissors.

EDIT: I also wouldnt go Kronos, either Jormunganndr for the slow army with lots of Venomcannons, or Kraken to get into melee fast. IMO Kraken is best for them, as 1/2 their damage is melee, so you want to get into melee. You also could add AG to them (I do) this makes them even faster.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/08 18:44:41


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topaxygouroun i wrote:
Post Chapter approved, how good an army base of 3x9 Kronos warriors with deathspitters/venom cannons + tyranid prime for the buff would be?

On paper that's 9 venom cannons plus 25 deathspitters, hitting at 3+ with reroll 1's. Or, 9d3 missile launchers and 25 heavy bolters with added mobility for 850ish pts. Then supplement the rest of the list as needed.

3 squads of 9 warriors + a prime is 28 models. With 9 venom cannons, that leaves you with 19 models carrying deathspitters. Not 25.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rending Claws are, correct me if I'm wrong, cheaper.

Rending claws are the same price as boneswords.
   
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Arson Fire wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:

Rending Claws are, correct me if I'm wrong, cheaper.

Rending claws are the same price as boneswords.


Welp, that's my bad.

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Warrior armies need to either be jormy/w zoanathrope support, Kraken/w swarmlord and pyrovores, or leviathan with malanthropes.

I really liked the idea of a Gorgan warrior squad with toxin sacs, but its just not efficient. If the poison strat just granted +1 to wound instead of 5+ for toxin sacs it would be worth looking at, but atm its just not.

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3 squads of 9 warriors + a prime will need to be leviathan unless you want to die to mass damage 3 shots.
If your local meta does'nt have much dmg 3 weapons then you can run any other hive fleet.
But when bad boyz such as reapers or Ion heads come for you... What you gonna do ?
   
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Netherlands

addnid wrote:
3 squads of 9 warriors + a prime will need to be leviathan unless you want to die to mass damage 3 shots.
If your local meta does'nt have much dmg 3 weapons then you can run any other hive fleet.
But when bad boyz such as reapers or Ion heads come for you... What you gonna do ?


Rely on a 6++ save? Dunno, leviathan always looked more of a gimmick than a real fleet if you ask me. And if they are shooting the ion cannons at my warriors they are not shooting them at my other monsters. the thing with warriors is that they are dirt cheap for the punch they pack.

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If your running full warriors (which you can with some malanthrope backup), leviathan is pretty good.

46 warriors with 6++ and -1 to hit is pretty durable even againgst 3dmg weapons.

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6+++ will save you more or less 50% of warriors agaiçnst dmg3 weapons if you do the math : you will roll 3 dices for each warrior sustaining a 3 dmg wound. when you roll a six with one of these 3 dices, the warrior "absorbs" the next 3 dmg wound. See what I mean ? Of course if unlucky on "6s" then yeah, levi trait will suck.
But I agree in general leviathan trait is not great. I'd never run it if I was not running warrior/zoanthrope heavy lists, so for me its a niche hive fleet trait
   
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I'd rather have Kraken, warriors are melee and shooters, with Onslaught and all assault weapons, a 9man unit can really be scary. Especially since we can give them Catalyst for a 5+++

So move+advance 3D5 highest x2 +1, for average 17" that can still shoot and charge with a +1 to the charge, and thats with out Swarmlord movement, with swarmlord you are adding on an addition 6+run+1, ayou can easily go 30-36" and still shoot/charge.

Im a believer in large powerful units needs to be super buff to work, otherwise they are a easy target. Start them near -1 to hit and out of LoS if you can.

That 9 man unit might outrun the Prime, thats the worst part, so you should use Double movement on him too (Metabolic override), with the double move he should be able to keep within 6"

The problem, it relays on powers to work this way.

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Netherlands

addnid wrote:
6+++ will save you more or less 50% of warriors agaiçnst dmg3 weapons if you do the math : you will roll 3 dices for each warrior sustaining a 3 dmg wound. when you roll a six with one of these 3 dices, the warrior "absorbs" the next 3 dmg wound. See what I mean ? Of course if unlucky on "6s" then yeah, levi trait will suck.
But I agree in general leviathan trait is not great. I'd never run it if I was not running warrior/zoanthrope heavy lists, so for me its a niche hive fleet trait


Why Zoanthropes tho? Warriors don't need synapse support or anything. Aside from a prime for the hit buff, they really don't need much support I think.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
If your running full warriors (which you can with some malanthrope backup), leviathan is pretty good.


Why malanthrope? If you are running a swarm of Warriors you don't really need a hidden synapse creature and in this instance a brood or two of Venomthropes actually adds threat saturation (more T4 3 wound bodies + reasonable melee and shooting) in addition to wider area coverage on their shroud.

addnid wrote:
But I agree in general leviathan trait is not great. I'd never run it if I was not running warrior/zoanthrope heavy lists, so for me its a niche hive fleet trait


I think it is more of a generalist than niche. It doesn't really have any units that it can't support with its toolbox but doesn't really make anything especially crazy either. A niche fleet would probably be something like Hydra or Kronos where it does one thing very well but offers little to nothing for units outside that specialization.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 13:18:57


 
   
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Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!
   
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Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Where have you been all my life?

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leviathan is worse than jorm for survivability on anything that isn't running, and anything that is running likely doesn't want a survivability trait anyway

warriors fill this niche where they want to shoot, assault, and also want run often to get in range, yet do want a survivability trait. They provide their own leviathan buff too. If anything is to be leviathan it's them, but still. it is really nice Vs armigers and hellblasters tho, as someone pointed out its basically a 50% increase to durability.

other than Warriors I think it's a subpar trait for most things. Still, that stratagem is gonna hit pretty hard on a unit with 36x 2+ S4 AP1 attacks, take a unit of gargoyles to secure it and I think it will put the hurt on anything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 14:37:42


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Bergen

The problem is my gartgoyle list is the flyer part.

The 'known suspects' is the flying hive tyrant, gargoyles (a bit tarpitty) and the neuronthrope. Obviusly just to trigger the stratagem.

Works really well with genestealers as well.

The 6+++ is also very good on gaunts. A leviathan army suualy has a lot of synapse, and feraless smal critters are good,

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

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 Niiai wrote:
The problem is my gartgoyle list is the flyer part.

The 'known suspects' is the flying hive tyrant, gargoyles (a bit tarpitty) and the neuronthrope. Obviusly just to trigger the stratagem.

Works really well with genestealers as well.

The 6+++ is also very good on gaunts. A leviathan army suualy has a lot of synapse, and feraless smal critters are good,


With 25-40 warriors on the table the last thing you need to worry about is synapse I think.

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I don't have the warriors to test it but someone run this list and tell me how it feels:


Levi batt

malanthrope
prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin, warlord, Ymgarl factor, Perfectly adapted

Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal

The Red Terror

Levi Batt

Malanthrope
Prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin

Warriors x7/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal


GSC supreme command

Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w mass hypnosis



2 malanthrope, 2 primes, 3 magus, Red terror, and 46 warriors. That's 144 Deathspitter shots, and 192 bonesword attacks, with psychic support, decent survivablilty (177 wounds) againgst almost any list, and a character sniper (the red terror).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/09 18:15:19


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Personally I’d swap out the malanthropes for broodlords and take venomthropes. Broods get you psychic powers and better character killing than the red terror, and venomthropes cover everything while eating the same shots as warriors. I’d also consider taking some sky-slashers so you can pop the stratagem, they’d work better than gargoyles imo because it’s just more obnoxious multiwound models.
   
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I don't think it's very good. Even the first Malanthrope is questionable, two of them is 300 pt tax on your list and you aren't even getting synapse from them.

You have zero anti-tank. And a random Red Terror just shoved in there, when the only thing he does that makes him even a consideration is buffing Ravenors. It's not much points to waste compared to the Malanthropes, but it adds up.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
I don't have the warriors to test it but someone run this list and tell me how it feels:


Levi batt

malanthrope
prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin, warlord, Ymgarl factor, Perfectly adapted

Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal

The Red Terror

Levi Batt

Malanthrope
Prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin

Warriors x7/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal


GSC supreme command

Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w mass hypnosis



2 malanthrope, 2 primes, 3 magus, Red terror, and 46 warriors. That's 144 Deathspitter shots, and 192 bonesword attacks, with psychic support, decent survivablilty (177 wounds) againgst almost any list, and a character sniper (the red terror).



No Anti-tank/MC? And why a Red Terror? Take that out and add in some VC's

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Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Sometime you should try Shrikes with Leviathan, for their wings and claws strategem.
   
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pinecone77 wrote:
Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Sometime you should try Shrikes with Leviathan, for their wings and claws strategem.


K? Its re-roll 1's to wound, or. I can move faster, and hit harder, then fallback and still shoot and charge giving me double the damage

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Portland,OR

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't think it's very good. Even the first Malanthrope is questionable, two of them is 300 pt tax on your list and you aren't even getting synapse from them.

You have zero anti-tank. And a random Red Terror just shoved in there, when the only thing he does that makes him even a consideration is buffing Ravenors. It's not much points to waste compared to the Malanthropes, but it adds up.


Well, he has Mind Controll. But if it was me, GSC calls for Abominatation infantry for anti-knight. But Metas vary.
   
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Bergen

You need ranged weapons to give you more ways to dictate the battle.

Grab 6 venom cannons and 6 hive guards. That gives you 12 guns with 36" range at S8. The hive guards might be hidden, or stick them nect to venomthrope / malanthrope.

The reason that warriors came up in the discussion is the discount on venom cannons. I took them when they cost 20 points, The new cannon is cheaper. The prime is cheaper.

When you took 1 prime, and around 18 warriors they came close to hive guards on the mathhammer. (Just the cost of the venom cannon units. The others obviusly shoot at something else. Stil 23 point 3 wound heavy bolter is good.)

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

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Portland,OR

 Amishprn86 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Sometime you should try Shrikes with Leviathan, for their wings and claws strategem.


K? Its re-roll 1's to wound, or. I can move faster, and hit harder, then fallback and still shoot and charge giving me double the damage
You can do both. Using Shrikes as part of a Warrior based force lets you keep your functions but add in the Option for a Strat. Also Shrikes with 6++ > Shrikes without. If there is one figure I wish existed it would be a Winged Prime/Shrike Commander.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 21:26:57


 
   
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Bergen

If you need help building shrikes you can look at theese.

Just make a mold of the top carapase out of green stunnf. (Get vaseline on the model before making the imprint. Then when you have the mold sett it with vaseline and fill it with green stuff. Cut the sculpt on two. Colour some see through plastic card yellow with washes and draw on the black with a filt top penn. Green stuff together.)

Shrikes are a bit expensive IMHO, but they are good with the leviathan stratagem if you are fresh out of other flyers.
[Thumb - shrike.jpg]


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
 
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