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Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






 gorgon wrote:
Methinks they took the 28mm Porphyrion's mojo and gave it to the AT version.
Do you or anyone else remember when FW first showed off the the Poryphyrion and it was much smaller... originally intended as an intermediate size of knight that was bulkier than the Questoris and shorter than a Cerastus... I feel like we just got that version of the model's rules.

We were told the supersizing was to make it more distinctive in epic... This is pure speculation, but I think GW told FW to supersize it because those months after it was first shown and then supersize coincide with when GW's main studio would have been working on the Dominus... that like a number of other decisions I think are because GW's decided that FW is self competing with the main studio. This rules release makes me only believe it more. How much you want to bet 20 months from now GW releases something in a similar role to the old Cerastus knights?
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





SeanDrake wrote:
Wow so your saying the main studio just gutted another load of fw’s 40k stuff I’m shocked I tells you.


Can't wait for the "official" gw rules
.

The Cheesetide will roll over everything and yet the armies charachter be lost to the depth.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 aka_mythos wrote:
The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct.


The problem with what made them distinct before was that once the codex came out it was kind of into "this shouldn't be possible" territory. RIS got nerfed so it can't give you a 3++, and most people agreed that it was a necessary change. So isn't it a problem to have a default 4++ that can easily become a 3++ without even needing to spend CP? An extra D6 of advance distance is a minor buff when you only have the index rules and it's a tradeoff between shooting or moving fast to set up for a future turn. It's a major buff when you can shoot and charge after advancing and it becomes a straight 3.5" movement increase, on top of the increase they already have in base speed. It's easy to look at that and say that no, it really isn't good for the game to have a lancer with an average charge range of 32" (and a minimum of 22") and threatening an easy first-turn charge across a huge section of the table.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in nl
Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

SeanDrake wrote:
Wow so your saying the main studio just gutted another load of fw’s 40k stuff I’m shocked I tells you.


A cynical person would think store managers have been lobbying the Studio, now they write the 40K FW model rules, to make FW a less attractive option, to save them having to be the Bad Guy banning FW from their stores. Or that the Studio team are just, still, relentlessly petty about FW repeatedly showing them up in terms of design aesthetic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/27 03:24:29


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Peregrine wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct.


The problem with what made them distinct before was that once the codex came out it was kind of into "this shouldn't be possible" territory. RIS got nerfed so it can't give you a 3++, and most people agreed that it was a necessary change. So isn't it a problem to have a default 4++ that can easily become a 3++ without even needing to spend CP? An extra D6 of advance distance is a minor buff when you only have the index rules and it's a tradeoff between shooting or moving fast to set up for a future turn. It's a major buff when you can shoot and charge after advancing and it becomes a straight 3.5" movement increase, on top of the increase they already have in base speed. It's easy to look at that and say that no, it really isn't good for the game to have a lancer with an average charge range of 32" (and a minimum of 22") and threatening an easy first-turn charge across a huge section of the table.

If your going to insist on gutting rules from units then they need to see point reductions aswell.
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Yeah, the fact that with House Terryn you could advance and charge and pretty much be on the opponents table edge turn one with a Lancer, Acheron, or Atrapos was a pretty terrifying thing.

you can still probably cross from right on the deployment line to the enemy's deployment zone (14" + 3.5" + 7") but it's not quite the sure thing it used to be. And if you have the Land Strider Warlord Trait...


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Ice_can wrote:
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.


Never mind, I had it backwards. Several of the FW knights had a 4++ by default which let you get a 3++ without spending your warlord trait, but you still had to play RIS. Still arguably a bit excessive to have a default 4++ when GW says that a 4++ is the absolute best you can have and only with a stratagem or warlord trait.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/28 02:31:54


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Peregrine wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.


Never mind, I had it backwards. Several of the FW knights had a 4++ by default which let you get a 3++ without spending your warlord trait, but you still had to play RIS. Still arguably a bit excessive to have a default 4++ when GW says that a 4++ is the absolute best you can have and only with a stratagem or warlord trait.

No it didn't GW rewrote that strategum ages ago, and it's not like they got it for free each one of them was paying a points cost for it and they have lost the rules with no reduction in points.
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






UK

First Legion - Dark Angels Contemptor and Praetor up for pre-order:


https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Dark-Angels-Legion-Terminator-Praetor-2019


https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Dark-Angels-Legion-Contemptor-Dreadnought-2019



   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





UK

Lovely models. Like the fact that the contemptor comes with multiple sarcophagus icons that you can swap out.
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun




beast_gts wrote:
The product description text state that the Moirax has a "carapace-mounted heavy stubber ... which can be replaced with a meltagun" but neither the 30k or 40k rules allow it to have a carapace weapon...


And you can't actually fit either on the model, conversions aside, as the carapace only has a mounting position for the shield emitter.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]






Svalarheima, MA

Group shot from the family picnic:

   
Made in lt
Longtime Dakkanaut






These are amazingly good looking models <3

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Saw the black, robes, sword post and thought templars. Ah well, not this time.
   
Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

That praetor might be my favorite non-named character terminator GW's ever put out.


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





UK

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
That praetor might be my favorite non-named character terminator GW's ever put out.


With you there. Now seriously considering adding in an allied Dark Angels legion to my 30k collection...
   
Made in us
Mighty Kroxigor Ancient





California the Southern

That Praetor is nice. Almost nice enough to make me walk back my self imposed moratorium on marines.

I thought it was a Templar too based on the colors and sword too.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





Where's the power armored praetor that got previewed with the terminator?

Iron Warriors 442nd Grand Battalion: 5k points
Carcharodons 4th Company: 2k points  
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






Ice_can wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct.


The problem with what made them distinct before was that once the codex came out it was kind of into "this shouldn't be possible" territory. RIS got nerfed so it can't give you a 3++, and most people agreed that it was a necessary change. So isn't it a problem to have a default 4++ that can easily become a 3++ without even needing to spend CP? An extra D6 of advance distance is a minor buff when you only have the index rules and it's a tradeoff between shooting or moving fast to set up for a future turn. It's a major buff when you can shoot and charge after advancing and it becomes a straight 3.5" movement increase, on top of the increase they already have in base speed. It's easy to look at that and say that no, it really isn't good for the game to have a lancer with an average charge range of 32" (and a minimum of 22") and threatening an easy first-turn charge across a huge section of the table.

If your going to insist on gutting rules from units then they need to see point reductions aswell.
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.
Agreed. Part of the problem is that they could have taken a variety of approaches, but what they did was heavy handed and kinda lazy. They removed the character of the unit and insist that if you want to have the unit described in lore you have to use rules that define Knights in general. That would kinda be like saying a techmarine can't repair anymore, if you want to represent that just use one of the stratagems or abilities that can regen wounds. Just like how that would turn a Techmarine into a generic character with some different weapons, we end up with Cerastus knights being pretty generic and bland.

They could have tweaked the rules or they could have replaced the rule with something else that represents the kind of capability and character of the unit without eliminating it entirely. If the index rules are part of the problem it's easy enough to say certain index rules can't be applied to Cerastus Knights. It was high priced for what it was before, now that the unit is diminished, its just overpriced. But its not just a little overpriced, its easily 25% overpriced. People hate on tactical marines for their price, but would they endear you anymore than they do now if they cost 20pts a model? "But you can play them because their cool" or "the fluff"... or you could expect lore, coolness, model design, and rules to cohesively and consistently represent the unit.
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

 Coolyo294 wrote:
Where's the power armored praetor that got previewed with the terminator?


It’ll come out probably with the Leviathan in the next few weeks. They did the same with the White Scars ones. I assume just padding the releases out.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




That's a gorgeous Praetor. I hate bling and I'm still tempted to buy one and get it painted.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in au
Fixture of Dakka





Melbourne

Spoiler:
 Alpharius wrote:
Group shot from the family picnic:

Nice of them to show some Dark Angels in the background in MkII armour that you can't get any more.



Bastards.

My Blogs -
Dark Angels - Currently Black Knights & Terminators
Terrain - Currently Dead
My Instagram - I don't post much. 
   
Made in us
Scuttling Genestealer





philadelphia

Looks like some krieg stuff that was listed as unavailable for a while vanished from the store. Hopefully not the next wave of stealth removals.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut






This image kinda killed this model for me. Sword looked cool from above, but now you can see it's literally thicker than wider, like some sort of club. Ditto for the robe, looked good when you couldn't see the edge, but both bits are thicker than his legs. Alas, no FW model comes even close to plastic Cata TDA Captain, details are nice, but the execution completely shatters any immersion.
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.


I think we all know why but I suspect the point is that lots of folks get FW character figs specifically for the asthetics... And that IMO does detract from an otherwise very nice fig.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Dirty deeds, done with sheep





Silverstone, UK

I wonder if you could get all the detail thinner if you cast it in something like white metal...just a thought.

"Bloody typical, they've gone back to metric without telling us."

"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh haven't you?"

"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

"Mind the oranges Marlon!" 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 warboss wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.


I think we all know why but I suspect the point is that lots of folks get FW character figs specifically for the asthetics... And that IMO does detract from an otherwise very nice fig.


Accept the FW back catalogue is full of much better sculpted swords and cloaks/robes just off the top of my head the inquisition stuff Solomon Lox and Rex both have excellent sculpts without the need for girder swords or duvet cloaks.

It's not a sculpting/material limitation as much as a sculptor limitation they xxxl cloaks started to appear with the 30k TSons stuff
and the swords shortly after I think. I guess they decided that given the new painter they were using the sculpts were less of an issue as once painted they would look gak anyway.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 farmersboy wrote:
I wonder if you could get all the detail thinner if you cast it in something like white metal...just a thought.
Chunky capes like that are characteristic of the older metal models - it's very much like the sword brethren models from that picture.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It may well be that they were just getting too much wastage with stuff coming out of the mould broken

and joking about FW sending out stuff that should have been binned aside you even experienced and skilled resin casters do get a fair amount of failures its just that customers shouldn't normally see them (except in bulk miscast packs like Mierce does)

failure rates also go up if you've got new casters or are trying to 'stretch' the number of casts you get from a mould before you replace it both of which I suspect FW will have been doing as staff got borrowed by the specialist games division and GW proper

 
   
 
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