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Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






Moirax seem interesting.

I don’t think there’s anything that puts them above Armiger class. But, each potential load out has its own appeal. Apart from the Graviton Pulsar. With random shots, S6 it seems a bit weedy, despite its -3 save and bonus damage against targets with Sv3+ or better.

I mean, against the right target (Meganobz, Tau Crisis Suits) it could prove utterly deadly. But I’m concerned those aren’t units you might see all that often?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm.

£37 a chuck. Don't come with the plastic weapon sprue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/26 07:49:29


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Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

Forgeworld wrote:Similar in size to the Imperial Armiger, the Mechanicum Moirax is a skirmisher, using its speed to hunt ahead of larger Knights.

So it's not a Armiger variant, it's a class by itself now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
£37 a chuck. Don't come with the plastic weapon sprue.

That's pushed it just out of auto-buy for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/26 07:56:19


 
   
Made in lt
Longtime Dakkanaut






Not that bad, to be honest. I was expecting like 60 euros per 1.

   
Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






Yeah.

I mean, the price isn't 'must have', but neither am I particularly put off by them.

And Twin Lightning Locks do hold tactical appeal. With a straight 6 shots, they're more reliable than the Autocannon Armiger. And whilst they lack the damage, the exploding Sixes could seriously help tackle horde infantry - and, I've not number crunched because it's not really my bag - a pair of them could rival the appeal for Chaos Knights of a twin Gatling Cannon Questoris for that same duty.

Their S6 also means they're fairly (and no more than fairly) decent against MEQ, as we can reliably wound them.

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Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





Wait, you just get the upgrade sprue in it?

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Made in gb
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Not Online!!! wrote:
Wait, you just get the upgrade sprue in it?


You get the plastic Armiger minus the plastic weapons, and the resin upgrades.
   
Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






Yup. Three spruces, bucket o’resin gubbins.

At least according to the pics FW have put up.

You know, I’m gonna take one for the team and order a dual Lightning Lock for my Chaos Knights. I shall report back in due course!

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Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





So you get a "full" knight for the price. Just sans the regular equipment.

i actually quite like them. They could be easily converted into nice little chaos thingies.

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Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






If we can rely on the pics from FW, yes.

However, I do question what the point of not including it is? I mean, whilst of course I've not seen the moulds, I'm wondering if they can provide the chassis sprues here, without the weapons also be cast up?

I know there are separate weapon sprues for the two Armiger Variants, so quite possibly. Order placed, and I'll be able to confirm approx next Saturday. Different Dakkatime, same Dakkachannel.

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Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The Moirax is very cool looking. I actually can't decide which of the heads I like more.

   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If we can rely on the pics from FW, yes.

However, I do question what the point of not including it is? I mean, whilst of course I've not seen the moulds, I'm wondering if they can provide the chassis sprues here, without the weapons also be cast up?

I know there are separate weapon sprues for the two Armiger Variants, so quite possibly. Order placed, and I'll be able to confirm approx next Saturday. Different Dakkatime, same Dakkachannel.


Same reason you don't get warglaive sprues in helverin and vice versa.

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Made in gb
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Indeedy.

Still kinda semi-hopeful is all

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Indeedy.

Still kinda semi-hopeful is all


That GW or it's subsidaries are not greedy?



Hope really dies last.

Edit: I should probably be silent, i still want a malcador and hope it to be decent

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/26 09:35:34


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Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.


Does chaos even get them though?

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Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

Not Online!!! wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.


Does chaos even get them though?

Yes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/26 09:51:55


 
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





beast_gts wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.


Does chaos even get them though?

Yes


It depresses me on how much better the moirax is compared to my Decimator.

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Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

The product description text state that the Moirax has a "carapace-mounted heavy stubber ... which can be replaced with a meltagun" but neither the 30k or 40k rules allow it to have a carapace weapon...
   
Made in gb
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London, UK

They're some really pretty models, way nicer than the other armigers.

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Made in ca
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The Atrapos is still like 550 pts but lost it's run ability and it's 4++.

Though I guess the singularity cannon got better.

The castigator got better, and it's one of the cheapest ones.

That Armiger looks pretty decent - with a pair of Lightning Locks it's 155pts for 12 S6 -2 D1 attacks that generate two extra hits on 6s.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





beast_gts wrote:
The product description text state that the Moirax has a "carapace-mounted heavy stubber ... which can be replaced with a meltagun" but neither the 30k or 40k rules allow it to have a carapace weapon...


I think those are just included on the body sprues is why they mention them.

What I'm more interested in is what models to use for the graviton pulsar and moirax conversion beam, since I don't see them releasing alongside the moirax kit.
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

Quasistellar wrote:
What I'm more interested in is what models to use for the graviton pulsar and moirax conversion beam, since I don't see them releasing alongside the moirax kit.


They are coming - they were previewed at Warhammer Fest UK 2019 -

Spoiler:
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Interesting--is that the only conversion beamer that doesn't have a dish on it?
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I have to say I quite like the new armigers - they look a good fit for a 30k mech collection... if only FW would stop discontinuing the rest of it.
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

Quasistellar wrote:
Interesting--is that the only conversion beamer that doesn't have a dish on it?


No - the Chaos ones look different, like the (now OOP) Decimator Heavy Conversion Beamer:

   
Made in us
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Portland

Yeah, the rail + coil w/ gap then emitter is how they look; the dish is just one style.


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 Crazyterran wrote:
The Atrapos is still like 550 pts but lost it's run ability and it's 4++.

Though I guess the singularity cannon got better.

The castigator got better, and it's one of the cheapest ones.
The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct. They're now underperforming Questoris with an extra 2" movement and 3 wounds.

Even before most of the differences between the Cerastus and Questoris were really more in the way of trade offs than advantages for which we were paying. The Cerastus chassis knights are generally shorter range shooting and close combat with their abilities more niche in comparison to the Questoris; when we look at the Questoris there are fewer rules targeting specific types of units and they have many more advantages with how the codex is written making them all round better. Often times when they're optimally kitted to a role similar to the comparable Cerastus they out perform them in all but most narrow use case.

I imagine when they worked on this they said "Its priced like a Questoris plus the extra points for the extra wounds?- So unless we want to raise the price we should cut all these rules, right?"... without really considering how the unit is used. Before when you paid to take a Cerastus over a Questoris, what you were buying is the ability to put that unit where you needed it, its otherwise performing just below the level of similarly purposed Questoris.

The loss of that run for the Cerastus knights is pretty substantial for how you have to use them. They will now have to use another turn to get where they're going, they will be shot at and have fewer wounds when they get there; if they get to shoot it's far more likely to be a less ideal target. For an army that fields so few models on the tabletop you can't afford to lose your opportunities to attack and this is practically a 1 turn handicap for the Cerastus knight compared to what it did before. If you were using these before in an all knight list before this is ~5% reduction in your armies capabilities for each one you take.

Losing that and its other abilities is more than 1/6th drop in capabilities... for the same cost... for units that were 50-50 on breaking even when they were used before... So their weapons all got a little better, but did they get that much better? -I don't think so.They also still have 3 extra wounds, but that doesn't mean much if you effectively take another turn before you can really use it the way its intended.

Even had their weapons been made so much better to justify the ability loss, they would need a substantial lore change for it to make sense.

The Porphyrion, the loss of a point of toughness was either a typo or its like its rules was written by someone that's never seen the size of that model. It damage progression is worse and so is its BS. The Chaos Desecrator's Laser Destructor is roughly comparable to 1/2 - of the Porphyrion's twin magma lascannons. It costs 80pts for the Desecrator to have that and its special rules, 50 of which is probably what the Destructor costs and is consistent with the Porphyrions weapon cost. This is just to say all the Porphyrions weapons are fully considered in their own prices. So just looking at the chassis the Porphyrion is paying 100pts for all of 2 wounds now. Even if the Porphyrion deserved no efficiencies despite being such a big point sink, scaling 100pts over the Dominus it should have ended up with W35 to 37. Given that this edition doesn't favor low volume - high damage shooting, I'd say both the Porphyrion and the Descrators main weapons are overpriced. You look at something like the Castellan where much of what made it as good as it was, were all the peripheral rules that don't really cost points; its points went up because of that. The Porphyrion doesn't get to benefit from that nearly as much, so even though the Castellan was bumped up 100pts it wasn't as if the Porphyrion was benefiting from this abstract 100pts and needed to come down in capabilities or go up in cost for it, but that appears to be whats happened. So after all this the Porphyrion is roughly equal to a Castellan and is 100pts more... even though it doesn't make sense.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Yeah the porphyrion looks like hot garbage now for the points. You don't exactly see Castellans much post nerf and this thing is not worth the points difference without some special rules or the additional toughness or ballistic skill. That's gotta be one of the biggest nerfs I've seen in 8th.

On the other hand, the armiger variants look pretty sweet. A charging moirax with dual claws/rad flamers would make any elite infantry like custodes run in fear. I wish they got an additional attack or something for taking dual claws though.

The lightning locks look to be the points sweet spot at 155 for a dual loadout, and their price in cash money is not prohibitive (about a 50% premium per model which isn't too horrible for Forgeworld resin).
   
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Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

Methinks they took the 28mm Porphyrion's mojo and gave it to the AT version.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Wow so your saying the main studio just gutted another load of fw’s 40k stuff I’m shocked I tells you.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
 
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