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So the only thing I have to fall back on here is that no matter what the outcome of a Custodes matchup is, the Administratum will classify it as a victory for the Custodes and shoot anyone who disagrees.

The Flood gates a wide open
Full rulebook leak
https://imgur.com/a/J4Bygoq

holy mother of pearls is this a nerf to transports.

You have to disembark wholly within 3" so it nerfs their movement alot and when disembarking destroyed transports makes it alot hard to escape surrounding enemy models. There is a strat that lets you disembark wholly with 6" though for 1 CP.

Psychers cant fall back and cast anymore either. And you have to cast all your powers with a psycher before you move to a second one. No more doing your best spells then bouncing back to smite after you see what succeeds. Big bonus for us.

However, you can now hit units that have heroic interventioned just as though you declared them the target of a charge. They no longer get a free round.

Change to CP reroll hurts us. You have to reroll the whole dice roll, so both dice for the charge. This makes it slightly harder to get reliable charges in with our new-fangled 3D6-drop-one strat.

Allocation of attacks is a HUGE nerf to us.

Twilight Pathways wrote:
Change to CP reroll hurts us. You have to reroll the whole dice roll, so both dice for the charge. This makes it slightly harder to get reliable charges in with our new-fangled 3D6-drop-one strat.

I can live with it, pretty minor difference really if you look at the percentages. The more significant loss on our part is not being able to reroll things like Tanglefoot, but every faction will have something like that which was lost (Vect etc).

edit:

Actually - doing the math myself I'm getting a significantly better chance of hitting a 9 inch charge by re-rolling the whole '3d6 drop one' test than just rerolling a single dice, ~69% vs ~77%. Maybe I'm a little fuzzy this morning, can anyone else confirm?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
holy mother of pearls is this a nerf to transports.

You have to disembark wholly within 3" so it nerfs their movement alot and when disembarking destroyed transports makes it alot hard to escape surrounding enemy models. There is a strat that lets you disembark wholly with 6" though for 1 CP.

Psychers cant fall back and cast anymore either. And you have to cast all your powers with a psycher before you move to a second one. No more doing your best spells then bouncing back to smite after you see what succeeds. Big bonus for us.

However, you can now hit units that have heroic interventioned just as though you declared them the target of a charge. They no longer get a free round.

Transports weren't terribly popular this edition anyway unless they were a gunboat too.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Allocation of attacks is a HUGE nerf to us.

I'm not seeing anything that different than how it used to be? Quote the issue?

stratigo wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Allocation of attacks is a HUGE nerf to us.

I'm not seeing anything that different than how it used to be? Quote the issue?

Im assuming its to do with how attacks must continue to be allocated to a particular model throughout the entire phase now, regardless of whether or not it has taken damage, so you can't chop and change allocating high AP attacks to Shield Guard, and lasguns onto spear models. Its in the 'Making attacks' section, under the heading 3. ALLOCATE ATTACKS (on the next page).

Minor issue, ignore that guys militant "NERFS" hyperbole.

Ok, then I misread it's intent. I thought it was stictly Melee phase, where by if my unit deals 1 attack to a model, all further melee attacks by that unit have to be directed at that model. That is a big nerf if you think about a squad of 5 bikes charging a mob of 30 boys. Can you clear up the confusion? Do all my unit's attacks then have to go at that one model, or can they overflow to the rest of the unit?

The model they are refferring to in the allocate section is the model attacking.

You dont declare which enemy model your attacks are going into.

You just can no longer say stuff like "I want to send 2 spear attacks, one sword, and one misericordia attack into this dude".

You have to do all of a single models attacks before moving onto another models attacks.

Audustum wrote:



Reviewing it after, Siegler said the Achillus was the worst thing in there and an easy remove for revisions. He was a huge fan of the Aquillons and the Telemon, saying they were the two best things in the list.

I am looking forward to finally buying a Telemon.

So they didn't change fall back after all....that is really disappointing.
My main gripe with 8th was that you can just fall back from melee and then shoot the enemy unit that just charged you with your whole army. I guess we'll see whether the new terrain rules can mitigate this a bit, but I think it still sucks, that they didn't change it.

they did change fall back a bit though.

1. Fly keyword doesnt allow you to shoot after falling back.

2. Psychers cant cast powers after they fall back.

3. Because of new coherancy rules its harder to fall back without loosing models.

4. Tri-pointing a model from more than one unit will still keep you locked in since only one can float out for 2 CP.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
they did change fall back a bit though.

1. Fly keyword doesnt allow you to shoot after falling back. Well Bikes are gonna feel this.

2. Psychers cant cast powers after they fall back. Does this really affect us though?

3. Because of new coherancy rules its harder to fall back without loosing models. I don't know if this will really hurt us?

4. Tri-pointing a model from more than one unit will still keep you locked in since only one can float out for 2 CP.

Where is the rule list of what is or is not a blast weapon?

I find it odd that Allarus Launchers made the cut, but Vertus launchers didn't? Or I haven't seen anyone saying that they did?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
they did change fall back a bit though.

1. Fly keyword doesnt allow you to shoot after falling back. Well Bikes are gonna feel this.

2. Psychers cant cast powers after they fall back. Does this really affect us though?

3. Because of new coherancy rules its harder to fall back without loosing models. I don't know if this will really hurt us?

4. Tri-pointing a model from more than one unit will still keep you locked in since only one can float out for 2 CP.

Where is the rule list of what is or is not a blast weapon?

I find it odd that Allarus Launchers made the cut, but Vertus launchers didn't? Or I haven't seen anyone saying that they did?

Both are blast now.

Here is the list:

 nordsturmking wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
they did change fall back a bit though.

1. Fly keyword doesnt allow you to shoot after falling back. Well Bikes are gonna feel this.

2. Psychers cant cast powers after they fall back. Does this really affect us though?

3. Because of new coherancy rules its harder to fall back without loosing models. I don't know if this will really hurt us?

4. Tri-pointing a model from more than one unit will still keep you locked in since only one can float out for 2 CP.

Where is the rule list of what is or is not a blast weapon?

I find it odd that Allarus Launchers made the cut, but Vertus launchers didn't? Or I haven't seen anyone saying that they did?

Both are blast now.

Here is the list:

Spoiler:

Link is busted, nevermind I found it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, so what good are salvo launchers being blast? Is this more to help against Eldar Jetbike spam?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The model they are refferring to in the allocate section is the model attacking.

You dont declare which enemy model your attacks are going into.

You just can no longer say stuff like "I want to send 2 spear attacks, one sword, and one misericordia attack into this dude".

You have to do all of a single models attacks before moving onto another models attacks.

That is of course correct, but in my opinion it won't help at all. The unit that actually falls back was never the issue, but the rest of the enemy army that will delete your unit in their next shooting phase. You still can't deny fall back except your faction has a special rule to do so and now you can escape even when tri pointed, which is a bargain because when you can delete an expensive unit like most of ours in your next shooting phase paying 2cp to fall back is a small price to pay.
If anything these new rules make me hate falling back even more. Such an utterly dumb rule.

The leak that is more intriguing is the new Primaris stormshield guys, because the rules for a stormshield on their dataslate are: 4++, +1 to save.
Assuming that is universally how they work, it's great news for shield-guard who will still have a 3++ because of Aegis but now walk around with a 1+/3++ in the open. Meanwhile shields on opposing armies are stopping less of our (generally) AP-3 melee attacks.

storm shield change is excellent for us, and for thunderwolf cav.

Probably nice for assault terminators too.

Who wants to bet on the over-under for Old Marines being made Legends after 6/2021?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
they did change fall back a bit though.

1. Fly keyword doesnt allow you to shoot after falling back.

2. Psychers cant cast powers after they fall back.

3. Because of new coherancy rules its harder to fall back without loosing models.

4. Tri-pointing a model from more than one unit will still keep you locked in since only one can float out for 2 CP.

The loss of tripointing is a big nerf to every combat army in the game. Custodes have tough enough models that it isn't deadly to us, just kind of frustrating. But bloodletter bombs, GSC assault units? They're pretty much non viable to play with now.

For what its worth, the 'Crusade Relics' section of the new rules has the following generic rules device:



So the rules team are cognisant of the possibility of a 1+ save characteristic, and hopefully also the mechanics of how they ought to work. Bodes well for the chances of Custodes Storm Shields adopting the same rules that the new marine ones just have, and a revised FAQ set that doesn't break how this kind of thing should interact with AP.

So is that where people are getting the 1+3++ idea from? That can't be serious? If they are in cover then what they are untargetable?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So is that where people are getting the 1+3++ idea from? That can't be serious? If they are in cover then what they are untargetable?

Natural 1 always fails doesn’t it?

nemesis464 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So is that where people are getting the 1+3++ idea from? That can't be serious? If they are in cover then what they are untargetable?

Natural 1 always fails doesn’t it?

Yes

I mean, even if they change it so that its just +1 to the dice roll its good. Means if your in light cover you ignore ap 1 and 2 with your stormshield boys.

Not going to lie, if this goes live, this is the closest to the fluff we've ever been.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So is that where people are getting the 1+3++ idea from? That can't be serious? If they are in cover then what they are untargetable?

Basically there's a clause in the rulebook that a dice can't be modified past a 1. Since the new stormshield is +1 to the save characteristic not dice roll you effectively auto-pass armour saves since Ap can never bring the dice roll below your save. Unmodified 1's always fail however so stormshields on anything with a 2+ save are essentially 2+ invul saves.

The question is: Do you think GW wants everyone with 1+ armor save from a storm shield to ignore AP? No in don't think so. It is not going to happen.