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You can't seem to go through any thread on this sight without someone whining about the Ultramarines. What's the deal? Are people so butt hurt that their favorites don't get as much fluff support? It's not like they're a dominant force on the tabletop.
Is it because they're the poster kids of 40k? Do these people have the same problem with Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny?
Please, someone help me understand this stupidity.

Not to shoot you down here, Angry, but check out one of the 3 Mat Ward threads on the main page of 40k General. That'll cover you.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/441005.page

Nom

Which doesn't make sense, since Ward's Space Marine Codex favours Ultramarines far less than the previous McNeill/Haines Space Marine Codex did.

Matt Ward is not an Ultramarine. Hence, Ward hate projected on the Ultras is irrational. Why not cry about the Crimson Fists, Silver Skulls or the umpteen other chapters in that book. In the totality of the product line, the Space Marine codex is a tiny amount of Ultra fluff.

Zweischneid wrote:Which doesn't make sense, since Ward's Space Marine Codex favours Ultramarines far less than the previous McNeill/Haines Space Marine Codex did.

None of that particular brand of hate makes a ton of sense though.

pretre wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Which doesn't make sense, since Ward's Space Marine Codex favours Ultramarines far less than the previous McNeill/Haines Space Marine Codex did.

None of that particular brand of hate makes a ton of sense though.

Sure it does. Whether projected on Ward or on Ultramarines, alot of it is born in the "special snowflake" / "geek hierarchy" syndrom of trying to see yourself as the nobler/better/more mature/more refined layer of the hobby crowd by portraying yourself as one "looking down" on some your fellows-in-40K (by any means necessary, especially the irrational).

AngryMarine wrote:Matt Ward is not an Ultramarine. Hence, Ward hate projected on the Ultras is irrational. Why not cry about the Crimson Fists, Silver Skulls or the umpteen other chapters in that book. In the totality of the product line, the Space Marine codex is a tiny amount of Ultra fluff.

1) Because they are poster poys therefore easier to hate.

2) The codex states that all chapters recognize marneous(sp?) Calgar (and therefore robuitte(sp?) Guilliman) as their spiritual liege and those that don't are abherrant.

3) Matt Ward wrote them

4) Calgar beats the Gak out of the Avatar of Khaine

5) Ward stated in an interview that all marines that all chapters want to be Ultramarines.

6) We do have a search button for a reason. this thread is made weekly.

Nom

Was going to write something about the quality of the previous post but then noticed the location. Can't pick on someone who's first language isn't english.

Because Ward gives them horrible fluff and really said himself that almost ALL marines want to be just like them and have their 'Spiritual liege'

I hate that when GW don't have a chapter for an epic story, its always UM that they use. OPnce or twice where they are actually concerned, like an Ultramar Invasion or the Tau Empire, fine, but a bunch of Marines fly down umpteen hundred light yerars to fight Hive Fleets, Necrons and whatever else on the other side of the galaxy is moronic when other chapters are better positioned to do so.

To build on what nom said, I would like to mention a quick story in Feb's WD where Marneus Calgar takes on the Swarmlord of Kraken. He charges out of his Drop Pod, gives the Swarmlord the old 1-2. Swarmlord's out of it, Calgar standing triump[hantly over the alien corpse-Wait! Back up a minute. This is the same swarmlord that almost killed Marneus Calgar at the Battle for Maccragge, and outsmarted every strategy and tactic Papa Smurf came up with, somertimes even before Calgar had thought them through completely? The one that is respawned with the exact same memories, therefore next time he fights an enemy, he is better equipped to do so? He beats Calgar in round 1, but loses in round 2? If Ward didn't write that then my left butt cheek is a squat and the right one is Creed.


Also, though I know rules =/= fluff, Marneus Calgar, in game terms, has no chance against the Swarmlord.

TheRobotLol wrote:really said himself that almost ALL marines want to be just like them and have their 'Spiritual liege'

Citation needed.

Sometimes I think people don't get that most codexes are written from the perspective of the described faction.

Perfectly put.

pretre wrote:Was going to write something about the quality of the previous post but then noticed the location. Can't pick on someone who's first language isn't english.

English :O I thought i was speaking german

TheRobotLol wrote:Because Ward gives them horrible fluff and really said himself that almost ALL marines want to be just like them and have their 'Spiritual liege'

Nomsheep wrote:
2) The codex states that all chapters recognize Marnius Calgar (and therefore Guilliman) as their spiritual liege and those that don't are abherrant.

5) Ward stated in an interview that all marines that all chapters want to be Ultramarines.

Nom

All of these problems stem from Ward and not the chapter itself.

I think its how 'eavy metal as painted them in the past. Red bolters on a bright blue god awful looking marine. There is something wrong with that on every level. plus, birds gotta fly. Fish gotta swim, and haters got to hate.

The whole avatar fluff with the ultra marines isn't bad. They both got screwed up in the fight, one just happened to win. And just because this thread is in five other places doesn't mean that its still on this topic. Every thread that can make its way back to Matt ward in any manor of speaking does and the whole point behind the thread is lost in Ward hate and trolling each other.

AngryMarine wrote:All of these problems stem from Ward and not the chapter itself.

Yes, but he is the one who wrote the stuff about the smurfs, therefor making them worse.

pretre wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:really said himself that almost ALL marines want to be just like them and have their 'Spiritual liege'

Citation needed.

Sometimes I think people don't get that most codexes are written from the perspective of the described faction.

The Ward phrase is from an interview



Note however, that a similar phrase (also excepting Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels) also appears in the 4th Edition Codex.

Codex Space Marines 4th wrote:
By their reverent obedience to the tenets of the Codex, these Chapters [not Space Wolves etc..] do honour to their forebears, to Roboute Guilliman, and to the Emperor himself.

It's been around long before Ward. Infact, the two things Ward did was take it out of the Codex (and patch it up later in an interview) and perhaps switch/confuse Guilliman with Calgar, which may just be the circumstances of an interview.

TheRobotLol wrote:

Yes, but he is the one who wrote the stuff about the smurfs, therefor making them worse.

He wrote maybe 70 pages out of the thousands of pages written on the chapter. By my count, that's not enough to consider him an author for the chapter, even if those are the first pages presented to players.

Just reading that makes my skin crawl.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AngryMarine wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:

Yes, but he is the one who wrote the stuff about the smurfs, therefor making them worse.

He wrote maybe 70 pages out of the thousands of pages written on the chapter. By my count, that's not enough to consider him an author for the chapter, even if those are the first pages presented to players.

Yes but he still had a bad effect. Got a counter arguement?

TheRobotLol wrote:

Yes but he still had a bad effect. Got a counter arguement?

Yes. "All Marines aspire to be Ultramarines" is explicitly in the 4th Edition Codex (and as far back as 2nd Edition fluff). It is not in the 5th Edition Codex.

Zweischneid wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:

Yes but he still had a bad effect. Got a counter arguement?

Yes. "All Marines aspire to be Ultramarines" is explicitly in the 4th Edition Codex (and as far back as 2nd Edition fluff). It is not in the 5th Edition Codex.

Yes, yes it is. Just not quite in those words.

He'd have been better off putting in the dex and not in an interview. it would have equaled less hate.


Nom

TheRobotLol wrote:Just reading that makes my skin crawl.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AngryMarine wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:

Yes, but he is the one who wrote the stuff about the smurfs, therefor making them worse.

He wrote maybe 70 pages out of the thousands of pages written on the chapter. By my count, that's not enough to consider him an author for the chapter, even if those are the first pages presented to players.

Yes but he still had a bad effect. Got a counter arguement?

That WAS the argument. You're repeating yourself. This isn't pee on Matt Ward thread, it's the "people hate Ultras for no real reason" thread.

nomsheep wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:

Yes but he still had a bad effect. Got a counter arguement?

Yes. "All Marines aspire to be Ultramarines" is explicitly in the 4th Edition Codex (and as far back as 2nd Edition fluff). It is not in the 5th Edition Codex.

Yes, yes it is. Just not quite in those words.

He'd have been better off putting in the dex and not in an interview. it would have equaled less hate.


Nom

Perhaps. But consider the context of this Interview. It was made on the heels of an unprecedented roll-back of UM focus for a Space Marine Codex. All UM-specific special units had their "serial numbers" filed off to become generic Sternguard or Honor Guard. The number of non-UM SCs more than doubled. The UM specific artwork throughout the army list for each and every selection had disappeared. Etc.. . Clearly, the WD interview was trying make amends, expecting (foolishly perhaps) that the comparative removal of UM-stuff from the Space Marine Codex would aggravate fans, rather than what was still left of it by its heritage of being a near-exclusive UM codex.

Despite this, I also agree with (especially) the last third of Ward's interview. He put "the battles" back into 40K Codexes (which has become standard by now), relieving us of the tedious, descriptive school-book-style of 4th Edition books that simply told the reader what each army was like, rather than portraying it through the actions and battles they participate in.

AngryMarine wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:Just reading that makes my skin crawl.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AngryMarine wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:

Yes, but he is the one who wrote the stuff about the smurfs, therefor making them worse.

He wrote maybe 70 pages out of the thousands of pages written on the chapter. By my count, that's not enough to consider him an author for the chapter, even if those are the first pages presented to players.

Yes but he still had a bad effect. Got a counter arguement?

That WAS the argument. You're repeating yourself. This isn't pee on Matt Ward thread, it's the "people hate Ultras for no real reason" thread.

*Sigh* its not for no reason, its because Matt ward, along with previous codexes, have made ultrasmurfs the, superultramega marines who save the day and are the apparent pinacle of marines. Call that no reason.

Ultras are the poster boys of 40k.

People will always hate on what's popular for if for no other reason at all other than it's popular.

Nom

TheRobotLol wrote:
*Sigh* its not for no reason, its because Matt ward, along with previous codexes, have made ultrasmurfs the, superultramega marines who save the day and are the apparent pinacle of marines. Call that no reason.

So you do have a reason. You're butt hurt that your favorites aren't in the spotlight. Someone will always be out front. Would people still have this level of hate for the Salamanders if they were , all of the sudden, on the cover of all the books and products?

Another internet badass. You have franchise hate, nothing more.

TheRobotLol wrote:

My reason, IS THE ONE I JUST SAID IDIOT.

Which has been a prominent constant in 40K for 25 years now. Makes one wonder why you choose the hobby in the first place if it so aggravates you?

Zweischneid wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:

My reason, IS THE ONE I JUST SAID IDIOT.

Which has been a prominent constant in 40K for 25 years now. Makes one wonder why you choose the hobby in the first place if it so aggravates you?

The hobby does not, just the goddamn ultrasmurfs and ward.