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i have a world eaters army list and have a few daemons to go along with it and was thinking of making a list but i am unsure of what to use this is what i have in mind

HQ - 620

blood thirster - death strike, blessing of the blood god, unholy might, instrument of chaos 300

skull taker - juggernaut 175

herald of khorne - juggernaut, furry of khorne, iron hide, unholy might 145

ELITES - 185

blood crushers 4, chaos icon 185

TROOPS - 572

8 blood letters - chaos icon 153

8 blood letters - chaos icon 153

8 blood letters - instrument of chaos 133

8 blood letters - instrument of chaos 133

HEAVY SUPPORT - 370

daemon prince - daemonic flight, unholy might, mark of khorne 185

daemon prince - daemonic flight, unholy might, mark of khorne 185

first of all, themed lists are great, but they require a little more care to make them better since you miss out on the other marks.

Drop instrument and deathstrike on the booldthirster, he should never tie combat, and if he does for one round, you want him in combat so you can then assault whatever he is locked in with your letters or crushers. Unholy Might is up to you, i do not run it myself becuase str 8 on the charge usually eat anything. If you want it for vehicle popping, 2d6+8 makes things go boom, if you want it for IDing, you have skulltaker, and charging BT.

On your herald, give him blessing, drop hide, he comes with hide when you give him juggernaught.

for your crushers, toss an instrument in there for wound allocation, along with rending. More allocation, and that means you have 3 rending guys in that squad. Which means you shoudlnt be tarpitted by a dreadnought for more than 1-2 combats.

Troops, love the fact you are running the right number. i would drop the instruments, dont need them. if you get the charge you will win. keep them naked, use points elsewhere.

For your princes, I would give them blessing because its so cheap and useful against certain armies. I would also drop might and give them iron hide. 3+ armor save is great.

otherwise it looks like you have a real fun list.

Also would you consider soulgrinders?

This list really needs grinders for shooting. Just paint them up as a Khorne Daemon posessing the grinder and you will be all set. (Use Grinder w/ Tongue in this case IMO)

I would also transfer Fury from the Herald to the Crushers and lose the 2x icons on the Bloodletters. Further, consolidate two of the letters into a unit of 16 (this is a hammer unit to hit the enemy) while the others will be more backfield objective units. Finally, lose the instruments from them as well.

With these points get more crushers.

I think in objective missions you will struggle, your troops will die very fast unless you hide in a los blocking terrain.

I reckon youv probably spent a bit much on upgrades, I would probably chop all upgrades from the thirster, drop wings on the princes drop all upgrades on the bloodletters then either get more bloodletters or crushers.

Im not sure about putting skulltaker and a herald in on crushers, I think chariots are better, but thats just personal preference. If you did go 2 chariots I wouldnt take skulltaker on one because he would be shot first.

I'd quite like to drop the Heralds and have a second Bloodthirster instead. I'd also quite like to drop the Bloodcrushers for Flesh Hounds. This would be suprisingly fast..

calypso2ts wrote:This list really needs grinders for shooting. Just paint them up as a Khorne Daemon posessing the grinder and you will be all set. (Use Grinder w/ Tongue in this case IMO)

I would also transfer Fury from the Herald to the Crushers and lose the 2x icons on the Bloodletters. Further, consolidate two of the letters into a unit of 16 (this is a hammer unit to hit the enemy) while the others will be more backfield objective units. Finally, lose the instruments from them as well.

With these points get more crushers.

Tongue? Eh.... BS3..... Tongue is nice, don't get me wrong, but I feel like 1 shot at BS3 isn't going to do much. Better off taking Phlegm, which is more accurate.

I know I would never want to shoot a rhino and hit on a 4+ and pen on a 2+

I would much rather take a Tzeetch Prince and hit on a 2+ and pen on a 4+...

Wait a minute, Tzeetch Princes must suck at shooting since they are exactly identical to a SG for AV 11 and worse at shooting anything higher...

Edit: Phlegm needs to scatter less than 3" for it to stay on top of a standard rhino That means you need to roll (for sake of argument) less than an 8 on the scatter

Hits: 1/3 on target, ~70% of the remaining 2/3 scatter 4" or less when you include BS 3. That means about 80% chance to hit collectively (uh oh, seems close to a DP BS of 5...)
Pens: 4+ to Pen (0.50)
Damage: Kills on a 5+ (0.33)

That means Phlegm has a 0.8 x 0.50 x 0.33 =13% chance to wreck AV 11 with some EXTREMELY generous scatter assumptions

Tongue on the other hand....
Hits: 4+ (0.5)
Pens:2+ (0.8443)
Damage: Kills on a 4+ (0.5)

That means Tongue has a 20% chance to kill (and it can kill on a glance which I have left out). Even with the most basic assumptions against Tongue, it turns out it is at least 1.5 times as good at breaking open AV 11 as Phlegm.

I think id rather have a couple of naked SG and just use fleet instead lol.

for 1750 there is way too much in your hq. i would take 2 heralds or just a bloodthirster on the cheap,

i would tripple your crushes with the points you save on the hq. that way you are gaining 6 dudes to your numbers, or 12 additional wounds to your army, 18 attacks (24 on charge).

The idea of naked soul grinders is cool tho, vomit is great nd then you can tarpit stuff in combat, at 135 points it's not that expensive.

take only 1 icon...2 max if you feel you really need it after playing a few games.

Flesh hounds are exactly the same stats as bloodletter...but faster so mimimize troops 2x10 bloodletters should be enough for objective then you have points for ruffly 2x10 flesh hounds.

Demon princes are good, i would stick with them add a naked soul grinder if you like or if you can fit it. my list would look somethign like:

Bloodthirster -

3 crushers - icon, instrument
3crushers - fury, instrument
3 crushers - fury instrument

10 hounds
10 hounds

10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters

2 demon princes

now that gives me 1710 in points (i'm using all your gifts on the princes nd bloodthirster) so you may be able to get a few more pointsand put in ... say 3 more hounds in or upgrade 1 hound to a karanak for the move through cover rule.

i know it looks cheezy nd spamed...but thats just how it is with daemons, and even with a list like this your opponents will not be at that much of a dissadvantage.

just close in for the assult and combat as fast as possible deploy as aggresivelly as possible, even sacrifice gaining assult bonuses as your guys are good enough to deal without it.

Your HQ is Nice! But in order for you to be effective, drop Skull taker and the Herald. OR Drop bloodthirster and keep the other two. I would keep bloodthirster, imho.
Deathstrike isn't really needed. Yes its some much needed ranged, but you should be in CC. Drop instrument too, if your drawing combat, something is clearly wrong (YMMV). Unholy might is a bit awkward. You have S8 on the charge. but S7 every other time. Its going to have to be your choice. If your trying to save points, dont bother with it.

MORE BLOODCRUSHERS! You can get another 8 Bloodcrushers from dropping Skulltaker and the Herald. 3 squads of 4 is terrifying for anyone! Definately no icon on them, you'll win everytime, garunteed (Again, YMMV).

Probably best to leave a few Icons in your Bloodletter squad. just so you have somewhere to go in the initial Deep Strike. Dont need instruments.

Daemon princes are awesome. Just drop flight off them and put Iron Hide instead.

Hope this helps

Rogues Gambit wrote:for 1750 there is way too much in your hq. i would take 2 heralds or just a bloodthirster on the cheap,

i would tripple your crushes with the points you save on the hq. that way you are gaining 6 dudes to your numbers, or 12 additional wounds to your army, 18 attacks (24 on charge).

The idea of naked soul grinders is cool tho, vomit is great nd then you can tarpit stuff in combat, at 135 points it's not that expensive.

take only 1 icon...2 max if you feel you really need it after playing a few games.

Flesh hounds are exactly the same stats as bloodletter...but faster so mimimize troops 2x10 bloodletters should be enough for objective then you have points for ruffly 2x10 flesh hounds.

Demon princes are good, i would stick with them add a naked soul grinder if you like or if you can fit it. my list would look somethign like:

Bloodthirster -

3 crushers - icon, instrument
3crushers - fury, instrument
3 crushers - fury instrument

10 hounds
10 hounds

10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters

2 demon princes

now that gives me 1710 in points (i'm using all your gifts on the princes nd bloodthirster) so you may be able to get a few more pointsand put in ... say 3 more hounds in or upgrade 1 hound to a karanak for the move through cover rule.

i know it looks cheezy nd spamed...but thats just how it is with daemons, and even with a list like this your opponents will not be at that much of a dissadvantage.

just close in for the assult and combat as fast as possible deploy as aggresivelly as possible, even sacrifice gaining assult bonuses as your guys are good enough to deal without it.

2 troops for 1750pts is a bit low methinks.

i agree 2 troops is low, but thats where your fast attack comes in, they are basically the same as your troops, so i figure it's a good replace

The puppies can disrupt, but its more about how much of a struggle it will be to capture an objective.

im surprised at the reaction of these comments i only looked through the codex twice before making this list iv never played as daemons i only ever use CSMs with princes and summoned greater daemon.

it seems im not far from the right path and i need to prioritise my upgrades and equipment

although i wonder why you guys dont go for the 2 lesser HQs and a greater my idea would be to drop the 2 lessers with 1 squad of letters and the bloodcrushers in one group and the rest in the second but im not really sure on tactics for daemons apart from you have to rely heavily deep strike and hoping you dont end up with any mishaps

I would go 4 Heralds on chariots (which I am currently building lol), but thats just me.

Another downside to daemonic deployment is that if you do make your prefered half the stronger half you really suffer when you dont make the 3+ roll. The last 3 or so games Iv rolled non-preferred half, tis is a bugger sometimes.

On the other hand if you balance your waves you often wont have enough punch to make an impact and you then need to rely on your reserves coming in quick.