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Ive been wondering for sometime Azhek Ahriman; what are his goals,is he a true chaos worshiper after getting exiled, and his relationship to Magnus currently.

To start off Ahriman is currently finding lost relics, obscurities and anything to gain him knowledge and thus power but isn't his main goal to get to the Black library?
The one place where every event of chaos is recorded and cataloged in time and a place where almost all the answers of the universe are kept, but the main question is why?
The main theories are:
1. he wants chaos to reign so forth kill the emperor plunge the world into eternal chaos etc.
2. He wants to change the thousand sons back and cleanse mutation but stay loyal to chaos?
3.Same as above but try to become loyal again or change the event so they never got marks traitors
4.destroy chaos from the inside and attacking the heart.
5.something else?


Minor questions.
Is he true heretic? We know he turned to chaos because he had to but has he gone to far now and lost himself to the warp or does he still serve the emperor but he has to go through chaos to go full circle by its destruction at his hands?



Also are their any original Thousand sons living today bar Ahriman or are they all Rubric marines? (named ones rather than in general)

Lastly does Ahriman still have ties to Magnus after being exiled are they enemies or (just as chaos tends to tear itself apart) "not allies".
They were close friends in "A thousand sons" and after betrayal (not going into detail for those who haven't read it) they didn't seem as antagonistic as they are now
Was the Rubric really the straw that broke the camels back and divided the thousand sons?

Personally, I like to believe that Ahriman is still loyal (or at least, not traitor, and definitely not a chaos worshipper - I don't think he ever actually TURNED to Chaos), and that his main goals haven't changed from what he stated in the A Thousand Sons novel - basically, restore all that was lost when Prospero fell. This may have taken him down dark paths, but I think he's still true to that original goal. From reading Atlas Infernal, I get the feeling he at least somewhat regrets the more horrible things he's had to do in pursuit of that goal.

As far as I know, Ahriman himself has never attacked the Imperium just for the sake of attacking the Imperium - he only ever attacks when there's some item or artefact or whatever that he needs to get his hands on, or defends himself from pursuit. And I believe he much prefers less violent, more subtle ways to get his hands on whatever he's after - guile, trickery, whatever. I also like to think his little habit of taking off with a cult's best and brightest psykers isn't just to strengthen his own warband, but also to deny them to Chaos in general. If they're in HIS hands, they're not in the hands of whatever cult they were originally from, and therefore not going to do whatever damage to the Imperium they would've done while in that cult.

As for the current relationship between Magnus and Ahriman... who knows. Ahriman didn't blame Magnus for wanting to kill him, so I don't think there's any real enmity from Ahriman. Or at least, there wasn't originally. Who knows what Ahriman thinks about Magnus after ten thousand years. And I remember reading something in one of the codexes that said that Magnus might be becoming a little less angry with Ahriman lately...

It's never been mentioned that I know of if there's any other original Thousand Sons still alive. I like to think that at least the few that were named to be with Ahriman at the end of A Thousand Sons are still kicking around with him in the background somewhere.

... Heh. I just came up with an amusing notion. There's all the rumours of Blood Ravens being descended from loyalist Thousand Sons... and it's established that Blood Ravens have all sorts of artefacts from other chapters... and Ahriman specialises in nicking off with artefacts... perhaps that's where the Blood Ravens get their collection from. "Anonymous Donations", so to speak.

I believe it is stated that he is currently trying to break into the Black Library to get enough stuff to become a warp god.

5. Ahriman (like Magnus) believes he can use the power of the warp for his own ends without becoming corrupted. Like Magnus, he has failed to grasp one of the fundamental concepts of the setting.

another theory i just recalled is perhaps Ahriman doesn't care what atrocities he commits in the name of chaos because if it does further his goal to the black library he can just undo them once he is there and cure himself of all taint and maybe even save his brother the lighter half of himself (since Ahriman and Ozumund are both Gods in some place i cannot recall one light and one dark).

IIRC, he's looking for the Black Library because inside he wants to find a way of reversing the effects of that spell he cast and to stop Tzeentch messing with their bodies once they are restored.

He had and always will have good intentions in regards to his brothers. Before the spell, the whole legion was wracked with mutations and tainted beyond looking remotely human-ish. The spell was designed to save the legion, and it did. It just had the mild side effect of turning 99% of them to dust.

Based on current fluff and A Thousand Son Ahriman seeks the Black Library to understand Tzeentch so as to be free of his influence. Ahriman has always been loyal to the spirit of the old Imperium, the one that existed prior to the Horus Heresy. In the Inquisition Wars he sought a Webway Junction with the power to travel through time; my guess is, he wanted to go back in time and reverse the events of the Heresy. Don't get me wrong, Ahriman hates the Imperium - but the current Imperium, where the dream that led to it's birth and what he, his father, and his brothers fought to build is twisted into a horrific parody of itself. In the end of A Thousand Sons, Ahriman sought the use the Rubric to restore the Thousand Sons back to the favor of the Emperor - it didn't quite work out, but he still seeks that through the Black Library. I have no doubt if Ahriman reaches the Black Library not even the Sentinels can stop him. If he is loyal, then Tzeentch and the others can say goodbye, because if Ahriman travels back in time and warns the Emperor, Magnus, Lorgar, Horus, and Mortarion (the Emperor because He's the Emperor, Magnus not to make a deal with Tzeentch, Horus not to trust Erebus, Lorgar not to trust Kor Phaeron and to show him the Imperium in the grip of religion, and Mortarion not to trust Typhus) of the events of the future, then it's over.

Ahriman seeks knowledge and power for himself. The Imperium and it's pitiful Emperor are nothing to him.
How anyone could consider him to be still loyal, to the rotten corpse on terra or the fascist imperium of old, is beyond me.

KingDeath wrote:Ahriman seeks knowledge and power for himself. The Imperium and it's pitiful Emperor are nothing to him.
How anyone could consider him to be still loyal, to the rotten corpse on terra or the fascist imperium of old, is beyond me.

Because he said so himself at the end of A Thousand Sons. The Rubric is the first step in reclaiming his legion's honor in the eyes of the Emperor.

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Ahriman seeks knowledge and power for himself. The Imperium and it's pitiful Emperor are nothing to him.
How anyone could consider him to be still loyal, to the rotten corpse on terra or the fascist imperium of old, is beyond me.

Because he said so himself at the end of A Thousand Sons. The Rubric is the first step in reclaiming his legion's honor in the eyes of the Emperor.

That was ten thousand years ago, before the failed rubric and before Ahriman began his descend into madness.

KingDeath wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Ahriman seeks knowledge and power for himself. The Imperium and it's pitiful Emperor are nothing to him.
How anyone could consider him to be still loyal, to the rotten corpse on terra or the fascist imperium of old, is beyond me.

Because he said so himself at the end of A Thousand Sons. The Rubric is the first step in reclaiming his legion's honor in the eyes of the Emperor.

That was ten thousand years ago, before the failed rubric and before Ahriman began his descend into madness.

Like the Alpha Legion.

Honestly I don't know what his goal is, like most Chaos guys probably to obtain the power to dominate others and control the stars. If he was to ever understand Tzeentch, I can imagine that Tzeentch would unravel and cease to exist. The mission given to him by Magnus is supposed to be an impossible task.

Alphacerberus wrote:4.destroy chaos from the inside and attacking the heart.

If the Black Library contained the information on how to do that, why on earth wouldn't the Eldar/'Quins have done it thousands of years ago?! You can't honestly think that the greatest Farseers throughout history would have overlooked the "How to destroy Chaos 101" book if it's there

Pilau Rice wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Ahriman seeks knowledge and power for himself. The Imperium and it's pitiful Emperor are nothing to him.
How anyone could consider him to be still loyal, to the rotten corpse on terra or the fascist imperium of old, is beyond me.

Because he said so himself at the end of A Thousand Sons. The Rubric is the first step in reclaiming his legion's honor in the eyes of the Emperor.

That was ten thousand years ago, before the failed rubric and before Ahriman began his descend into madness.

Like the Alpha Legion.

Honestly I don't know what his goal is, like most Chaos guys probably to obtain the power to dominate others and control the stars. If he was to ever understand Tzeentch, I can imagine that Tzeentch would unravel and cease to exist. The mission given to him by Magnus is supposed to be an impossible task.

Does anyone really know the motives of the Alpha Legion? And it's not impossible - if he gets his hands on the Black Library, then it's game over. Besides, Ahriman swore to restore everything lost during the Burning of Prospero no matter the cost - what better way to restore it than to make sure Prospero never burned in the first place?

Tadashi wrote:
Does anyone really know the motives of the Alpha Legion? And it's not impossible - if he gets his hands on the Black Library, then it's game over. Besides, Ahriman swore to restore everything lost during the Burning of Prospero no matter the cost - what better way to restore it than to make sure Prospero never burned in the first place?

No, and does anyone really know the motives of Ahriman? My point was that after 10,000 years objectives might change.

If Ahriman traveled back in time to prevent the Heresy, it never would have happened. It did, so if Ahriman was trying to do this, he failed, Prospero still burned and he was still cast out.

Gorechild wrote:

Alphacerberus wrote:4.destroy chaos from the inside and attacking the heart.

If the Black Library contained the information on how to do that, why on earth wouldn't the Eldar/'Quins have done it thousands of years ago?! You can't honestly think that the greatest Farseers throughout history would have overlooked the "How to destroy Chaos 101" book if it's there

That page was stuck together, some Farseer sneezed and spilled their Space Juice.

Gorechild wrote:

Alphacerberus wrote:4.destroy chaos from the inside and attacking the heart.

If the Black Library contained the information on how to do that, why on earth wouldn't the Eldar/'Quins have done it thousands of years ago?! You can't honestly think that the greatest Farseers throughout history would have overlooked the "How to destroy Chaos 101" book if it's there

They fear the cost it will toll the galaxy. Kinda like "the journey is more important" - it's meaningless if Chaos is destroyed using Chaos. Ahriman wouldn't care, and the Emperor probably won't either, since He might have planned an assault on the Library sooner or later once He gained access to the Webway.

Go read the Inquisitor book about Czevak. Ahriman's goal is to become a Chaos god.

Soladrin wrote:Go read the Inquisitor book about Czevak. Ahriman's goal is to become a Chaos god.

Does it go into how he does it Soladrin, or just that he wants to be a God?

Soladrin wrote:Go read the Inquisitor book about Czevak. Ahriman's goal is to become a Chaos god.

Isn t that the inquisitors view? I don t think czevak could fathom what Ahriman would do if he was doing it as a loyalist lost to chaos as he didn t know Ahrimans story pre heresy, i imagined he would just assume the worst knowing the power of the libriary and even if ahriman did become a god i don t think Czevak would guess he would use the power for good.
I believe the eldar harlequins wouldn t use the libriary as a weapon against chaos as who knows what could take its place or what changes could have occurred there would have been no warp maybe even no webway If the eldar hadn t be crushed by Slaanesh i imagine it would have been like a cammoragh inevery sector using psychic powers without abandon (if the warp existed)and craftworld eldar just trying to survive without paths and farseers to guide them especially if the warp had never been created.

sorry for any spelling/grammar as im.on a mobile

Soladrin wrote:Go read the Inquisitor book about Czevak. Ahriman's goal is to become a Chaos god.

That's from Czevak's point-of-view. Like the Emperor and many other characters, we never see what's actually going through their heads. In A Thousand Sons' ending, despite his ruthless and questionable actions during the Burning of Prospero, Ahriman is still clearly trying to restore his legion's standing with the Emperor. He's a guy who believes in 'ends justifies the means', and is willing to go to any ends to break Tzeentch, restore everything lost at Prospero, and restore his legion's honor. And the only place he can find a way to do all that is the Black Library. This guy believes in 'knowledge is power', and rightly so.

The common thread for all of the Primarchs and Marines that fell to Chaos was the feeling that being super-human meant that by extension they MUST mean more to the Emperor than the vast sea of humanity. Completely missing the whole point of their creation which was the establishment of a Grand Galactic human ruled Empire at the expense of their individual wants and needs.

The Primarchs and Marines were a means to an end and I believe the Emperor , while caring for his creations as a father might, had/has Humanities future as a species held as the end all important goal.

Ahriman, and all of those like him could not reconcile this in their minds and by varying degrees, the Dark Powers directly and through agents, massaged the super-human egos and brought about their treachery.

Some of the incidents were trully sad, as in the Thousand Sons, but, in truth, they too put themselves before the Emperors plan and left themselves open for heresy.

Ahriman MAY have altruistic motives for his Legion some 10 millenia on, but even at his best, he simply wants to have the Empire he believes was promised as the grand-sons of a god with mankind subserviant under their benevolent rule.

It is my guess that Ahriman is all consumed with the quest for power and any altruistic motives he may have once had have been distoreted beyond all recognition.

Just some thoughts...