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Agamemnon2 wrote:You know, an idea just occurred to me. If the mystery limited edition product really is Space Hulk, the enigma of how plastic floor pieces would be cost-effective might have a simple though disheartening answer. They're vacuformed.

Hmmmmm, what's that big blue thing falling towards my head? Count me out for Vacu-Hulk.

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

insaniak wrote:

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

There we go, GW does most production in the UK.

BrookM wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrookM wrote:Who knows, by December GW might issue a statement saying that they were sorry for deceiving us.

I'll take bets then:

WD publishing an apology for lying about a crap product and then attempting to pretend it didn't happen ---vs--- Jervis publishing an 'letter' from a 'real person' that says how wonerful the hobby and themed gaming is.

Any takers?

Cripes I haven't thought of that one. I'm siding with the Jervis cop-out.

Why would a catalogue have an appolgy in it ?

BrookM wrote:

insaniak wrote:

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

There we go, GW does most production in the UK.

Woe be to the outsourcing GW... Woe be...

BrookM wrote:

insaniak wrote:

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

There we go, GW does most production in the UK.

Sure ?

Found the number of "made in china" plastic kits increasing lately......

The books and White Dwarf have been printed in China for some time now. Most of the hobby supplies come from china, as do any of the special 'collector's' bits and pieces (ammo crate, backpacks and such).

The newer bases (with the central injection dimple) are supposedly outsourced, so probably from China.

And there have been rumours that a lot of Forgeworld's production is actually done in China as well.

I would strongly suspect that anything other than standard run injection moulding would be done these days in China instead of the UK/US factories. Which admittedly would still qualify as 'most' of their production... but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see GW gradually move some of that over to China as well. Particularly for smaller-run kits where getting it done elsewhere might work out cheaper than producing their own mould.

Vacu-Hulk... that does not sound good. Explains the limited run thing though.

I would bet my bottom dollar that they wouldn't skimp on Space Hulk, with the amount of hype it would get it would HAVE to be top quality or their massive targets for it would cause them to lose crazy amounts of money.

GW generally learn from their mistakes, so I think they will learn from the blastscape and return to their usual high standards.

It only takes one bullet to kill a hero, it only takes one incident to tarnish a reputation, it only take one blsatscape to make people dislike GW.

Wrexasaur wrote:This makes we want to scratch-build my entire Eldar force or simply build my army from other companies products....

Better yet, make the strong statement and quit the GW hobby altogether?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:This makes we want to scratch-build my entire Eldar force or simply build my army from other companies products....

Better yet, make the strong statement and quit the GW hobby altogether?

How bout' we just never game, I think I could live with that.

Oshova wrote:It only takes one bullet to kill a hero, it only takes one incident to tarnish a reputation, it only take one blsatscape to make people dislike GW.

People dislike GW for a *lot* more reasons than one lousy, overpriced set of terrain.

I understand that, I'm just saying that it takes only a few negatives for people to have outweighed the many positives . . . if people took the time to actually weigh up the pros and cons then 99 times out of 100 people would realise that GW is a good company. Obviously some people have particularly bad experiences that put them off (hence the 1%)

Oshova wrote:I understand that, I'm just saying that it takes only a few negatives for people to have outweighed the many positives . . . if people took the time to actually weigh up the pros and cons then 99 times out of 100 people would realise that GW is a good company. Obviously some people have particularly bad experiences that put them off (hence the 1%)

You must be getting paid overtime to say this...

Let me elaborate further.

Wait... nah.

ROFL!

To be honest I enjoy a bit of debate, even at half 3 in the morning . . . I don't have to be like this, but I want to stand up for what I believe in =]

Oshova wrote:ROFL!

To be honest I enjoy a bit of debate, even at half 3 in the morning . . . I don't have to be like this, but I want to stand up for what I believe in =]

That is fine, but to be fair you do WORK for them right? I don't exactly have a job with anti-GW here, that is all I am saying.

I would just be surprised if you said any different on a public forum.

Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW, but that in no way means that I have to go on forums and shout about how awesome GW is . . . ok it's not awesome it's just good =p

But although I say what I think, in no way do I think that by me telling this forum my views that it's going to affect sales. So me working for GW just means that am slightly more biased, and am more likely to side with them. But previous to me starting working for GW I had pretty much the same views, just didn't feel I had to shout about it as much, I honestly find it quite annoying when people whinge and whine about the same thing over and over again, and complain about the same problems with GW, when if it changed they would just find something else to complain about. Appeasement never solved anything, just look at WWII, no matter how much we tried to appease Hitler, he always wanted that bit more.

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW, but that in no way means that I have to go on forums and shout about how awesome GW is . . . ok it's not awesome it's just good =p

But although I say what I think, in no way do I think that by me telling this forum my views that it's going to affect sales. So me working for GW just means that am slightly more biased, and am more likely to side with them. But previous to me starting working for GW I had pretty much the same views, just didn't feel I had to shout about it as much, I honestly find it quite annoying when people whinge and whine about the same thing over and over again, and complain about the same problems with GW, when if it changed they would just find something else to complain about. Appeasement never solved anything, just look at WWII, no matter how much we tried to appease Hitler, he always wanted that bit more.

You just compared Hitler to GW miniatures... because the comparison is so blindingly rational apparently.

I am not trying to say you think you will change sales in any drastic way, just that you are slightly biased.

Actually I compared Hitler to GW customers . . . but I was just trying to make a point about appeasement, and that's the only example I could think of =p

And I admit I am slightly biased, seeing as I spend all weekend trying to sell people GW products lol

I hear where you are coming from but compromise is pretty different than appeasement.

I am not trying to present a business plan here, just saying my two cents as you are.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW, but that in no way means that I have to go on forums and shout about how awesome GW is . . . ok it's not awesome it's just good =p

But although I say what I think, in no way do I think that by me telling this forum my views that it's going to affect sales. So me working for GW just means that am slightly more biased, and am more likely to side with them. But previous to me starting working for GW I had pretty much the same views, just didn't feel I had to shout about it as much, I honestly find it quite annoying when people whinge and whine about the same thing over and over again, and complain about the same problems with GW, when if it changed they would just find something else to complain about. Appeasement never solved anything, just look at WWII, no matter how much we tried to appease Hitler, he always wanted that bit more.

You just compared Hitler to GW miniatures... because the comparison is so blindingly rational apparently.

I am not trying to say you think you will change sales in any drastic way, just that you are slightly biased.

You are talking bollocks. I have read most of his posts - he has been very objective and reasoned in his posts - far more than the "my life is over coz of one crap model" brigade. He wasn't comparing GW mini's to Hitler - learn comprehension and basic reading skills - he is on about appeasement and how appeasement doesn't work, i.e how the English (Chamberlin) policy of appeasement failed Europe. The Hitler comment is a real life example of how appeasement fails - the comparator is appeasement not Hitler.

Sheesh, after 16 pages of I think this horse has seriously been flogged to death and gone away so far from the original intent of the thread and the points raised by HBMC et al in the beginning. Way too much hyperbole in this thread.

Yes the models are crap, yes the response was typical GW stupidity but one crap model does not signal the end of the hobby of ruin the fact that 90+% of GW stuff is so far ahead of their competitors it isn't even funny. Now, if only they could stop writing crap rules the world would be happy.

Games Workshop is a corporation, not a person. I can't think of anything unethical they do, besides maybe some of their shadier legal weight-throwing, so I don't have much of a reason to dislike them on that level.

I like their product; I'll buy it if I think it's worth the price. If I think it's not worth the price, I won't. In that sense, whether or not I "like GW" isn't really the issue, it's whether or not I like the product, and the support and service given to that product.

::EDIT:: Oops, I thought this was the "do you like GW" thread, not the malformed craters one. I'll repost it there.

@Wrexasaur

I'm just saying that in a situation like this compromise would end up leading to an appeasement-like situation.

@Fullheadofhair

Thanks for the support, it's nice to feel appreciated, but I believe that Wrexasaur just misunderstood my post.

And your point about rules, everything has to be a bit hit and miss =p The sheer fact that when 5ed was release an FAQ was released 2 days afterwards shows how under tested the rules were, and how more proof reading needed to be done. *sigh*

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW

Well that certainly explains a lot.

In my experience there are three types of GW employees:

1. Those that believe everything the company feeds them. These are also the types that will try to sell you a Baneblade or a Stompa when you've only come in for glue/something from a different game system. They consider themselves loyal employees. We consider them sycophants (or Warseer members...).
2. Those who don't like GW as a company, like the games, but work there 'cause it's easy and they get a good discount.
3. Clueless managers (these can fit into either category).

I'd like to think that you don't fall into the first category Oshava, but your stuff about 99 out of 100 people seeing GW as a 'good' company kind've stretches that hope thin.

=D Well I don't try to sell a Baneblade to people who only want glue, and I despise those darned Warseer members . . . But I do like the GW company, and I'm just a generally positive person, I like to see the positives in things . . . mainly for the fear that the negatives might consume my generally chirpy demeanor =p

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW

Well that certainly explains a lot.

In my experience there are three types of GW employees:

1. Those that believe everything the company feeds them. These are also the types that will try to sell you a Baneblade or a Stompa when you've only come in for glue/something from a different game system. They consider themselves loyal employees. We consider them sycophants (or Warseer members...).
2. Those who don't like GW as a company, like the games, but work there 'cause it's easy and they get a good discount.
3. Clueless managers (these can fit into either category).

I'd like to think that you don't fall into the first category Oshava, but your stuff about 99 out of 100 people seeing GW as a 'good' company kind've stretches that hope thin.

or the rare 4th category: likes the game, likes the company but is willing to accept that it makes mistakes and discuss it in a sensible manner and is a fairly well rounded human being able to converse in a fair balanced manner.

Not starting a love fest, but we do have a habit of beating GW employees up here (hence the sharkpit rep) and fair play to him, if you read his posts he is say fair and reasoned things. Judge by the quality of his posts - better than 50% of the crap we wade through on this board at times.

PS, the memories of Paul Sawyer posting here still amuses me.

You make me smile =]

Makes a change from the GW suck statements I get, it's nice to see that there is some good in the world, and there are people I can have a good debate with =]

Huzzah, the internet maxim has proven true. The nazi analogy has appeared!

Now 16 pages of big fat hairy bollocks. This thread makes me cry. Or laugh maniacally.

Took a while to be honest. Usually Godwin's Law crops up far earlier in these things.

fullheadofhair wrote:Yes the models are crap, yes the response was typical GW stupidity but one crap model does not signal the end of the hobby of ruin the fact that 90+% of GW stuff is so far ahead of their competitors it isn't even funny. Now, if only they could stop writing crap rules the world would be happy.

(emphasis mine)

In a thread full of hilarious posts, this simple "fact" wins out as being the most disconnected from reality. The world is absolutely jam-packed with miniatures companies that can compete with GW across all of their product lines. Gamezone, Warlord, Victrix, Infinity, Perry Miniatures, Reaper, Privateer Press, Wyrd, Hell Dorado, Hasslefree, Micro Art Studio, Heresy, etc, etc. All of these companies exist within the same quality bracket with GW, ahead of them on some levels and behind them on others.

Just because GW makes the most fiddly multipart plastic kits doesn't make them the top dog in the wargames world. I for one would love it if they'd actually release simpler miniatures so building a spearman block didn't require a hundred tiny components.