Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

@WarOne: I think we've already covered that one but just to reiterate, such poll results would not be indicative of much and could even be very misleading (I for one would not rely on any such poll). A much more reliable way of figuring that out would be to read through a thread of paragraphs by people who are experiencing/driving the meta across the tournament scenes. Apparently, these are the people who are not very impressed with the Tactics sub-forum as it is.

Just an observation: virtually all non-staff long time posters are at least somewhat dissatisfied, while staff members are all lockstep in how awesome Dakka is.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

Polonius wrote:Just an observation: virtually all non-staff long time posters are at least somewhat dissatisfied, while staff members are all lockstep in how awesome Dakka is.

And the rest of the non-staff long time posters don't care either way and are ignoring the whole thing.

That's true, the idea that it's only the dissatisfied and cranky older posters that are posting in this thread is a decent one. It certainly complies with the overall attitude from the staff that veteran posters are a burden to be tolerated until they finally leave.

It is longtime people most likely to be dissatisfied though... They are the one's who will have seen it all/been there, done that, and will be a lot more annoyed at repetitive/crappy posts, as well as rowdy new-comers. This is the group that would be hardest to please.

Brand new peeps get to look at everything like it's new, open a 'where are the missing primarchs' thread with great interest, likely be impressed and fascinated by the tutorials and p and m blogs... they will also have an easier time adjusting to the way things are as they have to adjust anyways, and will learn Dakka as it is, not as it was. Old timers are like married couples ten years in, you still love your spouse (hopefully), but the thrill and surprise period is over, now it's down to your friendship, patience and a lot of hard work, because it isnt the adrenaline rush it used to be. Still rewarding and apprciated? Sure, but easy to be in a good mood 24/7, not nearly as much as it used to be.

This is gonna sound like rampant ass-kissing, but I really think the mods do a great job, put in a lot of time and in general do what is best for Dakka as whole, despite what the elite may want. Solving the problems mentioned in this thread is difficult at best, and frankly they are problems that arise in just about any social system, micro to macro.

I still think it is more than worth talking about how to improve things, if only because it demonstrates to the powers that be that we all care, but at the same time, let's not lose site of everything Dakka does right while we examine what it does wrong.

Group hug!

@Polonius, HBMC, John: I'm making a list of tactical threads to index (already have your recent one, Polonius). If there are any that stand out, either of your own authorship or others', would you mind PMing a link along to me? Thanks!

Polonius wrote:That's true, the idea that it's only the dissatisfied and cranky older posters that are posting in this thread is a decent one. It certainly complies with the overall attitude from the staff that veteran posters are a burden to be tolerated until they finally leave.

mmmh, the GW approach to customer relations

Polonius wrote:That's true, the idea that it's only the dissatisfied and cranky older posters that are posting in this thread is a decent one. It certainly complies with the overall attitude from the staff that veteran posters are a burden to be tolerated until they finally leave.

A bit like how GW treats their customer base, wouldn't you say?

Polonius wrote:That's true, the idea that it's only the dissatisfied and cranky older posters that are posting in this thread is a decent one. It certainly complies with the overall attitude from the staff that veteran posters are a burden to be tolerated until they finally leave.

fullheadofhair wrote:mmmh, the GW approach to customer relations

H.B.M.C. wrote:A bit like how GW treats their customer base, wouldn't you say?

LOL

There is consensus on something at least lol!

LoL.

At what point does a forum poll have any real statistical value, as distinct from the purposes KK outlined?

It isn't as though there is a cut off point other than thread lock when the data is collated.

The rest of the time it is on going and subject to change.
I appreciate that those later fluctuations may be negligible, but it illustrates there is no "serious" purpose.
At best everyone accepts that they are indicitive at best and just for fun.

I think any poll that has a "I don't care" option is meaningless. Just skews the figures really.

@C B-B:

Well, at the risk of eliciting SRS BIZ macros, I'd say that your analysis is correct and that the conclusion is that polls have a place in the watercooler boards but not in Tactics, Lists, and the like.

Polonius wrote:Just an observation: virtually all non-staff long time posters are at least somewhat dissatisfied, while staff members are all lockstep in how awesome Dakka is.

1: the plural of anecdote is not 'data.'

2:Observation bias. Big time.

I think we should have a poll to see who cares about polls.

All I posted was my observation. I don't see any analysis or conclusion in my post.

WarOne wrote:I think we should have a poll to see who cares about polls.

Look at the top of this page, mate.

Manchu wrote:

WarOne wrote:I think we should have a poll to see who cares about polls.

Look at the top of this page, mate.

Thank you, Manchu.

The restatements were intentional.

I believe I am pointing out that we have run most of this thread's usefulness into the ground much like the Save DakkaDakka thread as now most people have cleared out their frustrations and had their say.

To be honest, if this thread wasn't full of posts saying that the thread was useless it wouldn't be nearly so useless. These threads came up for good reasons that have nearly been lost along the way quite a few times but can still be profitably discussed--barring more meta-commentary. My point was that even this thread--which was created at least in part to poke fun at (some would say troll) another, more serious thread--has in fact continued for a while. So while you may have little interest in trying to improve the site, or just believe that the site either does not need improvement or cannot be improved, others do.

See? The Mods were right - old cranky people run out of steam and need their naptime!

Manchu wrote:To be honest, if this thread wasn't full of posts saying that the thread was useless it wouldn't be nearly so useless. These threads came up for good reasons that have nearly been lost along the way quite a few times but can still be profitably discussed--barring more meta-commentary. My point was that even this thread--which was created at least in part to poke fun at (some would say troll) another, more serious thread--has in fact continued for a while. So while you may have little interest in trying to improve the site, or just believe that the site either does not need improvement or cannot be improved, others do.

No no...you missed my interpretation.

It is not the context of the thread that is lost, but the steam at which people were complaining about the site has cooled off.

Do you think this thread has largely ceased being about the opinion "Is DakkaDakka going down hill?" and has moved on to other topics?

The polls do have value if they are setup objectively. It might only reflect two percent of the Dakka community but it can still be a good indication of the public perception and feelings about the hobby in general. I think most forums do not allow the public access to creating polls. I say don't let people take you into taking away something you have. It's easy to take things for granted. When it's gone that is it.

My experience in life has been that Polonius knows what he is talking about.

OP 2010/09/26 21:19:15
LP 2010/10/01 00:30:20

Lets go by time rather than posts or pages as that includes those of zero value.

Only 4 days, but a lot of intense and intersting discussion, pretty much non stop.
Running parallel with a thread covering the same subject.

Apart from the one word stories what are you listening to threads, it seems darned good value to me.

Amazingly some people have even tried to be constructive and address the issues.

@WarOne: Griping is easy, dealing with gripes is less easy. One point that keeps coming up is that if users want better quality, only users can supply it. I don't know if the causal relationship is accurate, but since these threads have come up at least of few of the "cranky old vets" have created extremely good threads in tactics that have elicited extremely good responses. I think that we can continue brainstorming to good effect here as long as people continue to be committed to addressing their concerns. But, yeah, it'll slow down because griping is easy and dealing with gripes is less easy.

@C B-B: You, sir, have yourself a point there.

Manchu wrote:One point that keeps coming up is that if users want better quality, only users can supply it. I don't know if the causal relationship is accurate, but since these threads have come up at least of few of the "cranky old vets" have created extremely good threads in tactics that have elicited extremely good responses.

Proactive solutions have come from within.

Although I cannot fathom how help could come from outside as everything has seemed to be an internal matter.

Hopefully others can take the reins and take charge of their respective forums they gather in most and help further this trend of good debates and positive reinforcement.

I for instance have stopped posting in the Off-Topic Forum. Well, I started that trend a week ago.

Now I'll focus on my strengths.

Which is....? Hmm...I don't think I could contribute anything positive as I don't really have a given forum to which I could contribute...Perhaps I should find a focus...

insaniak wrote:The thing is, either approach gets complaints. If we leave it alone, people complain that nothing was done about it. If we delete it, people complain that we're power-hungry maniacs who go around deleting people's posts.

I like the type that doesnt get deleted but says something like [content reviewed and edited by mod team]

This way , people can see its deleted to inappropriate content.
And they can see something is been done about it.

Best of both worlds?

LunaHound wrote:

insaniak wrote:The thing is, either approach gets complaints. If we leave it alone, people complain that nothing was done about it. If we delete it, people complain that we're power-hungry maniacs who go around deleting people's posts.

I like the type that doesnt get deleted but says something like [content reviewed and edited by mod team]

This way , people can see its deleted to inappropriate content.
And they can see something is been done about it.

Best of both worlds?

Yeah I know what you mean, when mods do that I just want to (deleted)

[Edited by Mod team, Have a year's vacation from Dakka now and rethink how you interact here]