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Good point regarding the need to run for a few turns making ranged weapons a waste, LW/BS/ST it is.

I was more thinking about dropping Doomie behind prey gunlines to force them to move or take damage. Deep Striking my cover in feels a bit unreliable, I'd be more prepared to try this with a multiple Spod list.

I see what you mean, make the heavy weapons teams move instead of shoot. or corral them closer, I like it.

lindsay40k wrote:Good point regarding the need to run for a few turns making ranged weapons a waste, LW/BS/ST it is.

I was more thinking about dropping Doomie behind prey gunlines to force them to move or take damage. Deep Striking my cover in feels a bit unreliable, I'd be more prepared to try this with a multiple Spod list.

I warn you, this won't always work against good players.

2 Possibilities;

1. Enemy is so tightly packed you can't land the doom safely, and need to risk landing elsewhere.
2. Enemy is slightly scattered, so you'll have a hard time getting more then 1 or 2 units into his aura.

A good player will use a rhino or other light transport to tank shock and move the Doom out of the way instead of moving his infantry and costing him heavy weapons fire.

Fine by me if they bunch up, I like to take Biovores so that's high density targets for them (and also for Cataclysm, and for the Spod's strangler). And if they scatter, this is a Swarmlord list = accurate Flankstealers = easier charges.

I agree with the earlier point about not building a list around Doomie, but she has a great role to play in psychological warfare and supports 'mistake punishing' lists well IMO.

Aside: I had her nom a couple of Sanguinary Guard in melee then charge a Baalpred and blow it to pieces just this evening

You cna't build a list around the doom of malantai, but as long as you have some decent anti tank he is quite good to just throw in there. He can winn games at random, and in worst case he has zynapse.

Niiai wrote:You cna't build a list around the doom of malantai ... in worst case he has zynapse.

Actually, the doom isn't a synapse creature, he has instinctive behavior -- feed, and lacks the synapse special rule. As much as he looks like a zoanthrope, or we talk about his great psychic power, he doesn't have a connection to the hive mind. Or at least that's my understanding from the RAW

Whoooot. And so you are right.

It has shadow in the warp though. I always thought that was when your oponent entered into zynapse, but aparantly not. :-)

All is not lost though, when you drop pod the Doom in, he'll either pass his leadership, move, absorb wounds, and use cataclysm, or fail his leadership, rage, absorb wounds and charge into the nearest enemy. He's been FAQ'd as having a zoanthrope's Warp Field, so he has a 3+ invuln which if you're lucky will keep him alive, especially if you can get him into melee with GEQ's, or MEQ's without power weapons. His power should still go off every shooting phase, even if he's in melee ( since it's not listed as a psychic shooting attack but just happens to go off in the shooting phase ) doing decent damage.

Marginally less effective than if he was synapse, but he's still only 90 pts. I don't use him personally but I imagine he'd still be cost effective.

Where's the part about him having a Warp Field?

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490299a_FAQ_Tyranids_2010.pdf

It is the part about do lkhsadlkasdnlkasdfFØJ count as the bla bla bla bla.

"Yes on all acounts."

Third page, left column, top of the page.

"..., is the Doom of Malan’tai considered to be a Zoanthrope for the purposes of Warp Field..."
"A: Yes in all cases"

Thanks - I totally missed it!

Hulksmash mentions in the OP that Devourer 'gants are good in some lists. Could anyone care to elaborate please?

Devilgants are generally best used in a spod (though they can work outflanking with Hive Commander, and potentially foot-slogging with a cheaper Gant screen in front).

for 240pnts you can drop down where needed and put out 60 Str4 shots. that's about 5 dead marines (or 1 dev/LF squad) or a whole pile of GEQ. depending on positioning though, synapse can then be a problem, along with being charged.

Generally I find better uses for my points, though they could fit in nicely to a Spod list.

Well they are expensive, at 10 pts per gaunt, but they pack 3 times the punch and force leadership tests.

I wouldn't give them any other upgrades though, either run them with devourers for extremely shooty gaunts, or just fleshborers for extremely cheap gaunts.

I'm not sure what else you'd like to know?

Anyone thought about throwing in a Strangleweb or two and a Barbed Strangler on the Spod? That'd make it fairly likely to throw two pinning tests at the enemy, to go with their -1Ld morale check.

Stranglewebs only affect models that fail the str test (not likely) and it's dangerous putting a template weapon on the Spod as it can scatter onto your cloesly packed gants. I prefer cluster spines since that's another chance to try popping a tank's rear armor.

Strength 4 is far too common in most armies, and as such, strangle webs will be wounding on 6s (even on strength 3, you are talking about wounding on 5s). On top of that, the victims still get thier armour saves. So you will seldom, if ever, force a unit to take a pinning check. If the upgrade came free, I would say "heah, why not". But at 15 points you are better off just spending the points elsewhere.

I am just wondering one thing: I am a big fan of the bigs bugs (I have 1 mawlock, 2 trygons, the swarmlord, a hive tyrant, 2 tervigons, 1 tyranofex and 1 carnifex and some drop spores :p )

However agaunst the 3 worst matchup for ouer codex IMHO gunline IG, raider DE and GK is it not better to have a lott of smaler monsters like the gargoyles?

I actualy do not own ant homogaunts, but it would seem to me that these also would be really good.

Of course dakkagaunts in a drop spore is also good once you pop the transport.

What are your musings over this? The shortcomming of the little once if of course a lack of zynapse and/or the lack of opening even AV10, not to say AV 14.

You should add SW to your list of bad matchups.

The problem with Hormies is that once you add poison and furious charge to make them good, you are at 10 pts per model.

Compare that to:

1) naked genestealers wich have rending, infiltrate, T4, WS6, and 5+ save for only 4pts more
2) gargoyles (with glands and sacs) that can move 12", better screen TMC, and come with guns

The hormie ends up coming out less valuable.

SW is bad but it is not as bad as the other 3.

dalarist wrote:Well they are expensive, at 10 pts per gaunt, but they pack 3 times the punch and force leadership tests.

I wouldn't give them any other upgrades though, either run them with devourers for extremely shooty gaunts, or just fleshborers for extremely cheap gaunts.

I'm not sure what else you'd like to know?

How about a group of 10 or so to be used to just sit on an objective that is in cover?

It strikes me that ten nekkid Gaunts on an objective can sit below the threat radar for long enough that your other units can take out threats to them, whereas if they've each got a heavy stubber they suddenly become a lot higher priority to get taken out. Also, if I objective camp Gaunts, I'll probably want to have them go to ground at the first incoming, which would waste any gun upgrades.

I find the minigaunt unit is fairly effective, either at flying beneath the radar, or at forcing your enemy to divert effort to dealing with them. It is rare that their objective actually wins a game, and they are a liability in KP, but they have come in handy.

I take a tervigon to produce these naked gaunts for free, that way I don't buy units that sit on objectives, and then move my devourer gaunts forward to press the attack, or hold back. Whatever the situation calls for.

Niiai wrote:SW is bad but it is not as bad as the other 3.

See, I witness and hear a whole lot of the opposite. Especially since 3 out of 4 rounds at a tournament will likely pit a player against Space Wolves/counts-as Space Wolves.

Long Fangs and Razorspam make life difficult for us. TWC are no picnic either. And oh yeah, Jaws insta-kills a lot of our monsters. The Spods actually work well in this match. If you can get some backfield disruption on the Long Fangs, you stand a fighting chance at the rest of the army.

I like the Devourer Gaunts. Usually i take them in units of 20 in a spod. Without the spod they usually get shot off of the table. THough when you take a unit of 30 along with FNP and lots of cover, they can draw alot of fire and prove to be a reliable shooter as well.

Hmm. A JotWW Missilefang army could be a real sod. Has anyone tried Spodding Warriors en masse (with Deathleaper support) at all? That might work for shutting down Rune Priests; they could land in cover, taking the dangerous terrain tests on the chin, and throw out some fearsome firepower.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
> Grey Knights

Ah, nuts.

I am not saying SW is not bad. It is bad, but it is not one of the top 3.

Dark Eldar: They move faster then you do, they shoot better then you do, there weaponds are more dangerush then yours (4+ or 2+.) They can generaly just dance around you allday and unles you have the right list there will be little or no interaction between the tyranid and the dark eldar. The game will be like a monolog.

Imperial guard gunline: Unless you are running 40 genestealers and tervigon with feel no pain they will shoot us up for 1 to 2 turns before they just kite us around. (This is baysicly what the SW do as well with razorbacks and longfangs. Yes the SW got counter attack but the IG will shoot us down better and it is harder to take out tanks then long fangs. Due to the damadge table.)

Grey Knights: While GK got a very low modelcount witch we like they do have superior firepower. While we usualy want to be 18" they can be 24". Agaunst all ouer melle units they can kite and fall back. Aparantly many of the good lists have a lott of halberds with enough attacks and a psycic power will destroy ouer MC's. (Shadow in the warp will help here but it is a bit of a gamle.)

I am not saying SW is not bad but an all commers SW list will usualy be easier then the 3 mentioned above. I would think that they would come in at at definetive 4th but behind the others. (If of course you use a LOTT of tyranofexes and tervigons and he uses a lott of rune priests this will swing the pendulum, but usualy there are better all commers powers in the SW codex.)

I cannot rank the rest because I really do not care so mutch about them but all of these 3 (or 4) will be found in the shooting department.

SW is far worse to play against then GK in my opinion. They have the best cc units at the cost - counter charging GH with a wolf guard leader and some nifty upgrades, the WLs are just OP at times, the Rune Priests have powers that can really hurt us, LFs have wicked Dakka output ... they just set up their rhino or razor wall and become very tough to deal with.

As for devilgants in pods ... I just played SW last night and used a list that had:

== per turn ==

- 153 devourer shots
- 7 venom cannon blasts
- 6 tentacle shots
- 4 warp lance/warp blast shots
- random strength Doom attack (he got up to S10 eventually)

I could say it was a close game but it really wasn't. I know he did not expect the list and was taken by surprise when he lost three rhinos turn two. It was tricky setting up the drops but in the end it was pretty devastating.

It is all pod list that creates havoc. Now you would think thsat GK with good drop defense could beat it but I will test out that theory. I don't have to drop within 12". The pods van goive me cover for a turn hopefully. I will lose one round of devil shooting but I sill have my Venoms and my Warp blast/lance. Doom will be much trickier to use as i will have to run him into position.