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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/04 17:22:07
Subject: Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Hunterindarkness wrote:TheAngrySquig wrote:I do kinda see where your coming from, but in general I find him to be overdone in the manly man of mantopia catergory
I have only been exposed to him in one book and the little research online. I agree the manly man thing gets over the top(but so does 40k).
Yeah, I like the OTTness of it all, adds character somehow
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/05 23:48:17
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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Ferrus Manus if fething amazing, he's manly as all hell.
TheAngrySquig wrote:I love tradition. I did it at 1000, I did it at 1500, and I'm doing it at 2000. This post is to commemorate me and my not liking Lorgar. He is a gigantic daemonic bitch, who spends all his time locked up in a tower, wearing a dress
List of Lorgar's Accomplishments as of Aurelian:
1. Physically dominating Daemon Fulgrim.
2. Psychically toying with a daemon (Daemon Fulgrim) that could telepathically control and dominate an entire planet's species, and corrupt an entire Legion.
3. Psychically commanding Horus, who was unable to resist his mental commands.
4. Being hands-down the most powerful Primarch in terms of psychic potential who is not a big red cyclops (Magnus recognises his psychic growth, though the moment he gets tired of Lorgar's internet tough guy act, he dominates him mentally despite the fact that Magnus's power was strained from projecting an avatar from the other side of the galaxy).
5. Beating An'ggrath one on one.
6. According to prophecy, if he chooses to attack the Ultramarines with his Legion, he is destined to kill Guilliman in single combat.
7. And, of course, effectively starting the Horus Heresy.
Lorgar used to be sort of a bitch. Not anymore.
Rorik The Red wrote:Gotta go with Russ. He's often labeled a brute and a bully, but for pete's sake this is the 31st Millennium we're talkin bout here. And yeah, Vikings are always awesome. Not to mention Russ fought with his heart, AND his brains. Most of these guys didn't really have a heart, and Russ' heart was so strong that it carries on in the rest of the Space Wolves even 10,000 years later. You'd be hard pressed to find a chapter more willing to stand up to the Inquisition, or any one, they do whats right, and that's not always the "Imperial" thing to do.
Russ and the Space Wolves were definitely not nice guys during the time of the Heresy. In fact, they enforced an image of "Not nice guys". It was their thing.
Also, the Salamanders are far more "good" so to speak than the Space Wolves, who really only give a damn about fellow human warriors, they don't care about civilians. Automatically Appended Next Post: Omegus wrote:The imagery used in the novel was certainly a great presentation of the horrors of Chaos (and Slaanesh in particular), but IMO his fall made him look like a tool. He comes across as pompous and insecure.
What a douche.
I think that was sort of the point, Fulgrim could not even conceive that a "perfect" being like him might be being influenced by something outside of himself.
So, yeah, he's a total douche.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/05 23:49:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 02:55:21
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Void__Dragon wrote:
TheAngrySquig wrote:I love tradition. I did it at 1000, I did it at 1500, and I'm doing it at 2000. This post is to commemorate me and my not liking Lorgar. He is a gigantic daemonic bitch, who spends all his time locked up in a tower, wearing a dress
7. And, of course, effectively starting the Horus Heresy.
That right there is the worst part about him. Everyone says that he started the whole damn thing, and he had a part, but real credit to Erebus. Anyway, the Emperor had a good thing going with the Great Crusade if Lorgar had of nutted up and took his whoopin like a man, then humanity would rule the stars and maybe even be pushed into new galaxies. He stemmed the flow of human domination, which IMO makes him a douche. I'll admit he isn't that much of a bitch after Monarchia, but he's still a douche
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 03:02:37
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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TheAngrySquig wrote:That right there is the worst part about him. Everyone says that he started the whole damn thing, and he had a part, but real credit to Erebus. Anyway, the Emperor had a good thing going with the Great Crusade if Lorgar had of nutted up and took his whoopin like a man, then humanity would rule the stars and maybe even be pushed into new galaxies. He stemmed the flow of human domination, which IMO makes him a douche. I'll admit he isn't that much of a bitch after Monarchia, but he's still a douche
He sent Erebus to go manipulate Horus.
You could argue however that Kor Phaeron started the Heresy. Lorgar however was necessary to do this because nobody likes Kor Phaeron.
The Emperor's handling of Monarchia was so hamfisted it is no surprised Lorgar rebelled.
Actually, feth Kor Phaeron. The Emperor started the Horus Heresy, it was as if he was begging some of the Primarchs to betray him. '
"Welp I need to arrest Magnus... Who to choose who to choose... Oh, I think I'll send Leman Russ, who openly hates Magnus and leads a Legion of superstitious Marines with a vendetta against psykers. This could not possibly go wrong."
"Well Angron doesn't want to leave his fellow gladiators to die... Well let me see, I could fight alongside them and easily crush their enemy with my own psychic abilities, but nah, I am gonna teleport him to my ship and make him watch his siblings die. This could not possibly have serious repercussions in the future."
Along with other gak I could mention, but I digress.
Lorgar is flawed, yeah, but what I am pointing out is that, as of Aurelian, Lorgar is certainly no "sissy". Hell, even in First Heretic, he went out to fight a battle he knew he would probably die in, just to save his sons. That is not the behavior of a sissy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 03:10:45
Subject: Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Yeah I'm not gonna argue that the Big E had a peanut brain when it came to dealing with problems, but if we're going with that it was the Old Ones that started the heresy.
The Old Ones didn't give the Necrontyr immortality which led to the Eldar fighting the Necrons, which led to the Eldar partying like hard bastards, which led to the creation of Slaanesh, which led Slaaneshi daemons, a Slaaneshi daemon corrupted Argel Tal and them, who cut the Gellar Fields in the Gene-labs, which led to the primarchs being scattered, which led to them developing different beliefs, which led to gak getting bad.
fething. Lizards.
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 03:15:47
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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It is true that the Old Ones and C'tan/Necrontyr did effectively create Chaos.
IIRC that bit of fluff has not been retconned.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 04:16:09
Subject: Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Yeah the point I was making is that you can link almost any major pre human race or faction to the heresy
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 10:39:12
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Corax, Kurze, Dorn - they're just awesome
Fulgrim - interesting story
Guiliman - like Calgar, but even bigger
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 11:48:04
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Fresh-Faced New User
Stevenage, UK
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I'm going to abstain from voting on this. I am only on the 5th book of the Horus Heresy. My opinion might have changed by the end of the series.
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Oh, Davros. I am far more than just another Time Lord! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 11:54:59
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Favorites (in descending order)
1) Magnus the Red
- he was the most intelligent of the Primarchs
- he was just as charismatic as Horus and his father, the Emperor
- out of all the Primarchs he inherited the most of his father's godlike psychic might
- apparently he was also very respectful of both Astartes and non-Astartes alike
2) Sanguinius
- what's there not to like?
- Horus may be Warmaster, but Sanguinius was the heir to the Imperial Throne - it's pretty much implied the Emperor wanted Sanguinius to remain in the Imperial Palace to become the new Emperor after His return from the Vengeful Spirit (since He already knew that upon His return, He'd only be good for keeping the Golden Throne under control, focusing the Astronomican, and soul-binding Astropaths)
3) Lion El'Jonson
- Knight
- he didn't care whether or not future generations questioned his loyalty in light of his failure to return to Terra during the Siege
- a noble and merciless warrior
4) Roboutte Guilliman
- not as ambitious or as talented a tactician/strategist as Horus, or as likable as Sanguinius, but he was probably the best leader/organizer/politician among the Primarchs
- say what you want, but this guy pulled the Imperium back together after the Horus Heresy - with the Emperor comatose, the Warmaster-turned-traitor dead, and the heir to the throne also dead, that's a lot of pressure
5) Vulkan
- down-to-earth guy
- good with his hands, none of the other Primarchs held ordinary Humans in such high regard as he did, a trait inherited by his genetic sons
- apart from Ferrus Manus, he was probably the strongest of the Primarchs
Hated (only one)
Leman Russ
- Russ was a rabid and ignorant dog...even Lorgar and Angron were better than him...Lion should have finished the  off when he had the chance...I'm hoping Magnus has him rotting in a cell at the base of the Obsidian Tower on the Planet of the Sorcerers.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 12:24:56
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Screaming Banshee
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Why is nobody on Dakka able to make a poll with just one choice per voter?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 12:29:04
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Tadashi wrote:Favorites (in descending order)
1) Magnus the Red
- he was the most intelligent of the Primarchs
- he was just as charismatic as Horus and his father, the Emperor
Then why didn't he have as many friends? Magnus was deffinitely the smartest, but he wasn't incredibly charismatic.
- out of all the Primarchs he inherited the most of his father's godlike psychic might
Direct power yes, but they almost all got a piece
- apparently he was also very respectful of both Astartes and non-Astartes alike
2) Sanguinius
- what's there not to like?
- Horus may be Warmaster, but Sanguinius was the heir to the Imperial Throne - it's pretty much implied the Emperor wanted Sanguinius to remain in the Imperial Palace to become the new Emperor after His return from the Vengeful Spirit (since He already knew that upon His return, He'd only be good for keeping the Golden Throne under control, focusing the Astronomican, and soul-binding Astropaths)
3) Lion El'Jonson
- Knight
- he didn't care whether or not future generations questioned his loyalty in light of his failure to return to Terra during the Siege
I'm confused, you like him because he abandoned The Emperor when he was most needed to deal with his legions own problems?
- a noble and merciless warrior
4) Roboutte Guilliman
- not as ambitious or as talented a tactician/strategist as Horus, or as likable as Sanguinius, but he was probably the best leader/organizer/politician among the Primarchs
- say what you want, but this guy pulled the Imperium back together after the Horus Heresy - with the Emperor comatose, the Warmaster-turned-traitor dead, and the heir to the throne also dead, that's a lot of pressure
5) Vulkan
- down-to-earth guy
- good with his hands, none of the other Primarchs held ordinary Humans in such high regard as he did, a trait inherited by his genetic sons
- apart from Ferrus Manus, he was probably the strongest of the Primarchs
Hated (only one)
Leman Russ
- Russ was a rabid and ignorant dog...even Lorgar and Angron were better than him...Lion should have finished the  off when he had the chance...I'm hoping Magnus has him rotting in a cell at the base of the Obsidian Tower on the Planet of the Sorcerers.
Russ is a space werewolf viking. Where do you find a problem with this?
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 19:16:50
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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TheAngrySquig wrote:
I'm confused, you like him because he abandoned The Emperor when he was most needed to deal with his legions own problems?
That's not what happened. The Lion rushed towards Terra with Russ, but Russ made them secure Imperial planets under assault from the Traitors along the way. It was actually Russ who slowed them down to save loyal planets (with the Lion being more of a pragmatist). The Lion only found out about the split (or at least only acted on it) in his Legion after the Seige of Terra and he returned to Caliban (which isn't that strange when he'd need to resupply to continue the Scouring)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/06 22:38:00
Subject: Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Sorry, the way he phrased it sounded like the Lion left Terra to deal, I got it mixed up, thats okay then
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 01:10:13
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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TheAngrySquig wrote:Tadashi wrote:Favorites (in descending order) Magnus the Red - he was the most intelligent of the Primarchs - he was just as charismatic as Horus and his father, the Emperor Then why didn't he have as many friends? Magnus was deffinitely the smartest, but he wasn't incredibly charismatic.
Magnus was close to Lorgar...and on cordial terms with most of the Primarchs, even Sanguinius. The only ones who hated him were Dorn, Mortarion, and that dog, Russ. Magnus didn't like Horus though. And none of them were diplomatic...all of them could sway people, but they all tended to tell others what to do without saying why...none could sway people as much as the Emperor, Horus, and Magnus could. Lion El'Jonson - he didn't care whether or not future generations questioned his loyalty in light of his failure to return to Terra during the Siege I'm confused, you like him because he abandoned The Emperor when he was most needed to deal with his legions own problems? " Defending Terra means nothing of the rest of the Empire is ash." - Primarch Lion El'Jonson to the Ninth Order, Savage Weapons Hated (only one) Leman Russ - Russ was a rabid and ignorant dog...even Lorgar and Angron were better than him...Lion should have finished the  off when he had the chance...I'm hoping Magnus has him rotting in a cell at the base of the Obsidian Tower on the Planet of the Sorcerers. Russ is a space werewolf viking. Where do you find a problem with this? Simple. For someone living under the Imperial Truth, and tasked to embody it's ideals, Russ was anti-intellectual and superstitious. Since when did 'rune magic' not become warp based, like what Librarians do? It's like he's a foreshadowing of Imperial attitudes after the Horus Heresy.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/07 01:11:17
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 01:23:18
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Tadashi wrote:TheAngrySquig wrote:Tadashi wrote:Favorites (in descending order)
Magnus the Red
- he was the most intelligent of the Primarchs
- he was just as charismatic as Horus and his father, the Emperor
Then why didn't he have as many friends? Magnus was deffinitely the smartest, but he wasn't incredibly charismatic.
Magnus was close to Lorgar...and on cordial terms with most of the Primarchs, even Sanguinius. The only ones who hated him were Dorn, Mortarion, and that dog, Russ. Magnus didn't like Horus though. And none of them were diplomatic...all of them could sway people, but they all tended to tell others what to do without saying why...none could sway people as much as the Emperor, Horus, and Magnus could.
He had some friends yes, but not nearly as many as Horus. And everyone liked Sanguinius that isn't special
Lion El'Jonson
- he didn't care whether or not future generations questioned his loyalty in light of his failure to return to Terra during the Siege
I'm confused, you like him because he abandoned The Emperor when he was most needed to deal with his legions own problems?
" Defending Terra means nothing of the rest of the Empire is ash."
- Primarch Lion El'Jonson to the Ninth Order, Savage Weapons
Cleared elsewhere
Hated (only one)
Leman Russ
- Russ was a rabid and ignorant dog...even Lorgar and Angron were better than him...Lion should have finished the  off when he had the chance...I'm hoping Magnus has him rotting in a cell at the base of the Obsidian Tower on the Planet of the Sorcerers.
Russ is a space werewolf viking. Where do you find a problem with this?
Simple. For someone living under the Imperial Truth, and tasked to embody it's ideals, Russ was anti-intellectual and superstitious. Since when did 'rune magic' not become warp based, like what Librarians do? It's like he's a foreshadowing of Imperial attitudes after the Horus Heresy.
Well he wasn't anti-intellectual, his intellect was just not as bookish as Lorgar or Magnus. He knew more relevant things to his position, and he was shaped by his childhood on Fenris, where 'rune magic' is different from the Warp. If someone came up to you and told you one of your most base belief was wrong and proved themselves correct, wouldn't you retain some of your beliefs?
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 01:37:19
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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TheAngrySquig wrote:Tadashi wrote:TheAngrySquig wrote:Tadashi wrote:Favorites (in descending order) Magnus the Red - he was the most intelligent of the Primarchs - he was just as charismatic as Horus and his father, the Emperor Then why didn't he have as many friends? Magnus was deffinitely the smartest, but he wasn't incredibly charismatic.
Magnus was close to Lorgar...and on cordial terms with most of the Primarchs, even Sanguinius. The only ones who hated him were Dorn, Mortarion, and that dog, Russ. Magnus didn't like Horus though. And none of them were diplomatic...all of them could sway people, but they all tended to tell others what to do without saying why...none could sway people as much as the Emperor, Horus, and Magnus could. He had some friends yes, but not nearly as many as Horus. And everyone liked Sanguinius that isn't special
A fair point...but I would also point out that none of the Primarchs on Nikaea could match Magnus arguments...at that least Magnus was on par (in terms of charisma) with most of them, and at most with Horus. But yes, not as many friends as the Lupercal. Hated (only one) Leman Russ - Russ was a rabid and ignorant dog...even Lorgar and Angron were better than him...Lion should have finished the  off when he had the chance...I'm hoping Magnus has him rotting in a cell at the base of the Obsidian Tower on the Planet of the Sorcerers. Russ is a space werewolf viking. Where do you find a problem with this? Simple. For someone living under the Imperial Truth, and tasked to embody it's ideals, Russ was anti-intellectual and superstitious. Since when did 'rune magic' not become warp based, like what Librarians do? It's like he's a foreshadowing of Imperial attitudes after the Horus Heresy. Well he wasn't anti-intellectual, his intellect was just not as bookish as Lorgar or Magnus. He knew more relevant things to his position, and he was shaped by his childhood on Fenris, where 'rune magic' is different from the Warp. If someone came up to you and told you one of your most base belief was wrong and proved themselves correct, wouldn't you retain some of your beliefs? A fair point...but the Wolves were being hypocritical by claiming that their Librarians drew power not from the warp, but the spirit of their home world. Especially when you consider that their Chief Librarian pretended to be friends with Ahriman only to back stab him at Nikaea. And Russ was anti-intellectual; out of all the Primarchs, none equalled Russ' dislike of Remembrancers, and apparently considered scholarly pursuits (even non-heretical ones) as 'weak', a trait shared by his genetic sons to this day.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/07 01:39:46
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 01:45:16
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
Vancouver, BC
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Tadashi wrote:
A fair point...but the Wolves were being hypocritical by claiming that their Librarians drew power not from the warp, but the spirit of their home world. Especially when you consider that their Chief Librarian pretended to be friends with Ahriman only to back stab him at Nikaea. And Russ was anti-intellectual; out of all the Primarchs, none equalled Russ' dislike of Remembrancers, and apparently considered scholarly pursuits (even non-heretical ones) as 'weak', a trait shared by his genetic sons to this day.
In other words.... they were exactly what the emperor wanted? Warriors?
Which was why he shut down Lorgar and demolished his city
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 01:55:55
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Tadashi wrote:
A fair point...but the Wolves were being hypocritical by claiming that their Librarians drew power not from the warp, but the spirit of their home world. Especially when you consider that their Chief Librarian pretended to be friends with Ahriman only to back stab him at Nikaea. And Russ was anti-intellectual; out of all the Primarchs, none equalled Russ' dislike of Remembrancers, and apparently considered scholarly pursuits (even non-heretical ones) as 'weak', a trait shared by his genetic sons to this day.
In other words.... they were exactly what the emperor wanted? Warriors?
Which was why he shut down Lorgar and demolished his city
Which was also one of the few times Russ and Magnus agreed on anything; both believed it was 'too much'.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 01:57:29
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
Vancouver, BC
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Tadashi wrote:blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Tadashi wrote:
A fair point...but the Wolves were being hypocritical by claiming that their Librarians drew power not from the warp, but the spirit of their home world. Especially when you consider that their Chief Librarian pretended to be friends with Ahriman only to back stab him at Nikaea. And Russ was anti-intellectual; out of all the Primarchs, none equalled Russ' dislike of Remembrancers, and apparently considered scholarly pursuits (even non-heretical ones) as 'weak', a trait shared by his genetic sons to this day.
In other words.... they were exactly what the emperor wanted? Warriors?
Which was why he shut down Lorgar and demolished his city
Which was also one of the few times Russ and Magnus agreed on anything; both believed it was 'too much'.
I feel like this has been said way too many times but...... the emp was a douche
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 02:01:57
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Tadashi wrote:blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Tadashi wrote:
A fair point...but the Wolves were being hypocritical by claiming that their Librarians drew power not from the warp, but the spirit of their home world. Especially when you consider that their Chief Librarian pretended to be friends with Ahriman only to back stab him at Nikaea. And Russ was anti-intellectual; out of all the Primarchs, none equalled Russ' dislike of Remembrancers, and apparently considered scholarly pursuits (even non-heretical ones) as 'weak', a trait shared by his genetic sons to this day.
In other words.... they were exactly what the emperor wanted? Warriors?
Which was why he shut down Lorgar and demolished his city
Which was also one of the few times Russ and Magnus agreed on anything; both believed it was 'too much'.
I feel like this has been said way too many times but...... the emp was a douche
Not really...more undiplomatic. A cross between messiah and warrior, the Emperor was very charismatic such that He could sway the minds and wills of an entire species - and when you consider how fickle we Humans are that's saying something - but He had a tendency to tell people what to do and did things without telling anyone why. That was was His biggest mistake - if He told Lorgar the reason behind the Imperial Truth, things could have been different. If He told Magnus completely about the dangers of the Great Enemy, things could have also been different. If Horus had been told about the Emperor's long-term plan, things could also have been different. The list goes on. Thing is, charisma and diplomacy are different...none of the Primarchs were very diplomatic either, although they were all very charismatic, especially Lorgar, Magnus, and Horus, a trait they all inherited from their father.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 02:02:46
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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Konrad Curze. He is called the Night Haunter. No come backs and no arguments. he.is.a.bro.
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6000 points
4000 points
Empire 5500 Points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 02:06:01
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
Inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
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Tadashi wrote:TheAngrySquig wrote:Tadashi wrote:TheAngrySquig wrote:Tadashi wrote:Favorites (in descending order)
Magnus the Red
- he was the most intelligent of the Primarchs
- he was just as charismatic as Horus and his father, the Emperor
Then why didn't he have as many friends? Magnus was deffinitely the smartest, but he wasn't incredibly charismatic.
Magnus was close to Lorgar...and on cordial terms with most of the Primarchs, even Sanguinius. The only ones who hated him were Dorn, Mortarion, and that dog, Russ. Magnus didn't like Horus though. And none of them were diplomatic...all of them could sway people, but they all tended to tell others what to do without saying why...none could sway people as much as the Emperor, Horus, and Magnus could.
He had some friends yes, but not nearly as many as Horus. And everyone liked Sanguinius that isn't special
A fair point...but I would also point out that none of the Primarchs on Nikaea could match Magnus arguments...at that least Magnus was on par (in terms of charisma) with most of them, and at most with Horus. But yes, not as many friends as the Lupercal.
I don't deny he was a genius, I openly stated he was the smartest, but argumentative skill and Charisma are different
Hated (only one)
Leman Russ
- Russ was a rabid and ignorant dog...even Lorgar and Angron were better than him...Lion should have finished the  off when he had the chance...I'm hoping Magnus has him rotting in a cell at the base of the Obsidian Tower on the Planet of the Sorcerers.
Russ is a space werewolf viking. Where do you find a problem with this?
Simple. For someone living under the Imperial Truth, and tasked to embody it's ideals, Russ was anti-intellectual and superstitious. Since when did 'rune magic' not become warp based, like what Librarians do? It's like he's a foreshadowing of Imperial attitudes after the Horus Heresy.
Well he wasn't anti-intellectual, his intellect was just not as bookish as Lorgar or Magnus. He knew more relevant things to his position, and he was shaped by his childhood on Fenris, where 'rune magic' is different from the Warp. If someone came up to you and told you one of your most base belief was wrong and proved themselves correct, wouldn't you retain some of your beliefs?
A fair point...but the Wolves were being hypocritical by claiming that their Librarians drew power not from the warp, but the spirit of their home world. Especially when you consider that their Chief Librarian pretended to be friends with Ahriman only to back stab him at Nikaea. And Russ was anti-intellectual; out of all the Primarchs, none equalled Russ' dislike of Remembrancers, and apparently considered scholarly pursuits (even non-heretical ones) as 'weak', a trait shared by his genetic sons to this day.
You have a point, but I still think that Fenrisian culture has more to do with their rune magic beliefs than actual ignorance. And Russ did dislike book learning for him and his warriors, but he recognized the importance of it
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angel of ecstasy wrote:
You take a dump, you flip through the Dark Eldar codex, the concept art for Lelith Hesperax shows up and you pee on the floor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 02:58:07
Subject: Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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To sum it up:
1) Magnus is a genius compared to the other Primarchs, though his charisma wasn't as great as Horus (though greater than most)
2) Russ is superstitious and anti-intellectual, even by 40k standards, which is unusual considering he was supposed to be living up to the ideals of the Imperial Truth, which valued reason, logic, and scientific progress over faith and superstition.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 04:15:20
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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By the end of Magnus's trial, through words alone, Magnus had swayed a very signifigant portion, IIRC most actually, of the spectators at Nikaea to seeing his point of view and joining his side. That takes charisma. Magnus was a very eloquent speaker, and very capable of convincing others to see his point of view. Magnus did not have as many friends due to his own relatively isolationist nature, as well as the fact that he was an open psyker and seeker of Warpcraft.
I would disagree with the Emperor being genuinely charismatic as well. The Emperor could "sway the minds and wills of an entire species" because he was the most powerful psychic in the history of the galaxy, and every human who was so much as in his presence suffered a massive heart attack and boner. Personally, the Emperor has never managed to convince me he is genuinely charismatic, in The Last Church while posing as a human, he could not convince or enthrall the old man with his words as all. In fact, he found him a total condescending ponce and on at least one occasion was tempted to strike him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 04:40:19
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Void__Dragon wrote:
I would disagree with the Emperor being genuinely charismatic as well. The Emperor could "sway the minds and wills of an entire species" because he was the most powerful psychic in the history of the galaxy, and every human who was so much as in his presence suffered a massive heart attack and boner. Personally, the Emperor has never managed to convince me he is genuinely charismatic, in The Last Church while posing as a human, he could not convince or enthrall the old man with his words as all. In fact, he found him a total condescending ponce and on at least one occasion was tempted to strike him.
The Emperor was charismatic, but being charismatic only means you can sway people, not always get them on your side. In The Last Church on Terra, the old man had his faith shaken several times by the Emperor, and at the end believed the Emperor was right, but did not want to live in a world with no religion.
"I think you are right, but I want no part in it."
- The Last Church on Terra
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 04:52:26
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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He only thought the Emperor was "right" when it turned out that the Emperor was the "god" that the old man saw.
The Emperor is very intelligent and could logically dissect the man's religion, but that is just intelligence. He could not sway the man with his words, and was sort of an obviously arrogant ponce.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 05:18:03
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Void__Dragon wrote:He only thought the Emperor was "right" when it turned out that the Emperor was the "god" that the old man saw.
The Emperor is very intelligent and could logically dissect the man's religion, but that is just intelligence. He could not sway the man with his words, and was sort of an obviously arrogant ponce.
True, but charisma also includes knowing how and when to manipulate people with certain means, including both words and appearance even if it means acting like a condescending and aloof fellow...that's what the Iterators did, manipulate the basic contradictions common between religions to shatter people's faith and indoctrinate them into the Imperial Truth, and the first Iterators were probably trained by the Emperor personally. As Solomon Voss described them: "The Imperial Truth needed no manipulating...Sinderman and his ilk...". Voss was a Remembrancer, and so believed that the Imperial Truth would be better served though inspiration and example rather than manipulation, but still, Iterators were the Imperial Truth's version of Missionaries.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 05:39:05
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
Vancouver, BC
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Tadashi wrote:Void__Dragon wrote:He only thought the Emperor was "right" when it turned out that the Emperor was the "god" that the old man saw.
The Emperor is very intelligent and could logically dissect the man's religion, but that is just intelligence. He could not sway the man with his words, and was sort of an obviously arrogant ponce.
True, but charisma also includes knowing how and when to manipulate people with certain means, including both words and appearance even if it means acting like a condescending and aloof fellow...that's what the Iterators did, manipulate the basic contradictions common between religions to shatter people's faith and indoctrinate them into the Imperial Truth, and the first Iterators were probably trained by the Emperor personally. As Solomon Voss described them: "The Imperial Truth needed no manipulating...Sinderman and his ilk...". Voss was a Remembrancer, and so believed that the Imperial Truth would be better served though inspiration and example rather than manipulation, but still, Iterators were the Imperial Truth's version of Missionaries.
I don't think people really like listening to condescending and aloof people, I don't find anything charismatic about it.... To be charismatic you've got to be one with the people, feel their pain, sympathize, and then use that to pull them to your side. The Emperor was a god amongst men, he had power beyond belief, but charisma? I think he had something resembling charisma, but it certainly wasn't it. He pulled loyalty through wonderous deeds and power. People believed the imperial truth because to the smarter people it made sense, to others well, you've got this super god like being leading humanity, this saviour. Why wouldn't you follow him?
It was more out of awe and intimidation that people followed the emp, not charisma. Lorgar had charisma, used that efficiently to meet his needs
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/03/07 06:06:12
Subject: Re:Who is your favorite primarch in PRE-HERESY?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Tadashi wrote:Void__Dragon wrote:He only thought the Emperor was "right" when it turned out that the Emperor was the "god" that the old man saw.
The Emperor is very intelligent and could logically dissect the man's religion, but that is just intelligence. He could not sway the man with his words, and was sort of an obviously arrogant ponce.
True, but charisma also includes knowing how and when to manipulate people with certain means, including both words and appearance even if it means acting like a condescending and aloof fellow...that's what the Iterators did, manipulate the basic contradictions common between religions to shatter people's faith and indoctrinate them into the Imperial Truth, and the first Iterators were probably trained by the Emperor personally. As Solomon Voss described them: "The Imperial Truth needed no manipulating...Sinderman and his ilk...". Voss was a Remembrancer, and so believed that the Imperial Truth would be better served though inspiration and example rather than manipulation, but still, Iterators were the Imperial Truth's version of Missionaries.
I don't think people really like listening to condescending and aloof people, I don't find anything charismatic about it.... To be charismatic you've got to be one with the people, feel their pain, sympathize, and then use that to pull them to your side. The Emperor was a god amongst men, he had power beyond belief, but charisma? I think he had something resembling charisma, but it certainly wasn't it. He pulled loyalty through wonderous deeds and power. People believed the imperial truth because to the smarter people it made sense, to others well, you've got this super god like being leading humanity, this saviour. Why wouldn't you follow him?
It was more out of awe and intimidation that people followed the emp, not charisma. Lorgar had charisma, used that efficiently to meet his needs
Still charisma in another form...
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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