So... Dakkajets huh?

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**MrMoustaffa**

Yeah, after seeing all the new fliers orks are getting... yay? The models look awesome, but do they really have a place in most ork lists? I'm just starting orks so I don't have much, but I can see them being handy, if only for a hilariously over the top transport hunter (sad when transports are so good you have to kill them with freakin FIGHTER JETS) The supa dakkaguns or whatever they're called seem really good, and combined with the ace pilot could be a huge advantage when fliers become more commonplace, but for 5th edition it just seems like a souped up buggy.

The problem is, they seem to add more of the same to what we already have, lots and lots of anti infantry. I really want to use at least one just based on looks alone, but I don't know. Almost $50 is a lot to drop on a flying tin can that'll probably explode first turn, and for a guy like me that'd be a huge blow to my wallet. Does anybody see them as becoming useful for ork players in any sort of list? I think they might work well in small point games where there won't be much higher AV targets and not as much anti tank, but that'd be about it. Fly em deep into enemy lines drawing fire and firing into rear armor as possible, buying time for units to move up. Might work well with a battlewagon bash/ green tide list.

What do you guys think?

(yes, I know it was only a matter of time till someone started it, so I figured i'd go ahead and get it out of the way now

)

**greenbay924**

Well, of the three the only one I like is the dakkajet, since it's the only one that doesn't have to get right in the opponent's face and be like "yes please, blow me up kthnx."

I was thinking about it, and having 9 TL shots at BS3 is pretty good, only downside is the S6 making it pretty pointless in a force org slot where we already have units capable of doing the exact. same. thing. when it comes to anti transport.

A kitted out dakkajet clocks in at the same points cost as 9 lootas, and there's quite a few advantages the jet has over that loota squad, putting out potentially the same amount of hurt, but being able to actually SEE something. A lot of my games recently forces me to put my lootas in places where they really can't see/shoot much.

My largest gripe is AV10 and NOTHING to add to its survivability. It's size would suggest it won't be getting much in the way of a cover save, and keeping it close to a KFF might hamstring it from getting those side armor shots off.

Either way, I want to get a couple just because they're awesome models, but I'm not sure the rules will justify the initial investment.

**MrMoustaffa**

Well if the dakka jet is roughly comparable, would it be a better buy in real life cash than trying to buy something like 9 buggies or lootas? For a guy like me whons just getting together an ork army, only spending 50bucks for an effective FA slot sounds way better than having to drop over a 100 bucks for a less awesome yet more proven model.

Plus, if what the kit looks like it has is true, it comes with several wings. If thats the case, all you would need to do is get a cheap model airplane and a vendetta base and you'd have 2 or 3 of em for dirt cheap.

Plus I'm sure these things like all units are better when you have multiples instead of just one. I guess we wont know that for sure thiough until people get a few games with them in and get used to them.

**Witzkatz**

Allright I have to ask, where are Orks getting new fliers? What's the source for this? I couldn't find anything on the GW website or ForgeWorld.

**schadenfreude**

The dakkajets and lootas are different force orgs. An ork player could take 3 of each.

The dakkajet can move 12 or 13" and shoot everything, so it can keep up with a kff mek in a wagon.

I can also do well in reserve.

Big problem is the av10 and the other side willbe motivated to kill the jet before it can take advantage of a waaaaaaaaaaagh.

**Jidmah**

After reading the actual rules and point costs, I'm actually quite happy with them.

Dakkajet
For 120 points (I see no reason to not take the third supa-shoota) you get 9 TL BS3 shots with strength 6 against anything except jumpers (who cares?) and skimmer (*shakes fist towards mech edlar*). You can get an upgrade to hit those at BS3, too, but unless you really hate dark eldar, I wouldn't spend 10 points just for that.
But wait - BS3 twinlinked? As in hitting 75% of the time? With nine strength 6 shots? 18 during our Waagh!?
A rhino will suffer 1.125 penetrating and glancing hits from one volley, the same amount of points in lootaz would cause 1.8 penetrating and .9 glancing, a unit of buggies causes .8 penetrating and .3 glancing.
So lootaz are still better at destroying and supressing vehicles, but buggies are worse than the dakka jet - at least vs AV11. Against AV12 the dakka jet obviously is worse at destroying, but still better at suppressing. So you can pretty much fire a dakka jet across half the table into the front armor of a manticore and expect it to be shaken/stunned/weapon destroyed. Not so for the unit of buggies. 30" range also makes it possible to simply have them flank your KFF mek(s) and shoot from there. Unless you really need a tank dead, there is no need to move out of the protective KFF. In addition to the range, not being open topped also makes them much harder to take out with small arms.
I might be wrong here, but I think it's an improvement over buggies.

Burna Bommer
For just five point more than an upgraded Dakkajet you get two killa koptaz with big shootaz and bombs in one vehicle. If you add another 60 point you can also carpet comb any light infantry of the table once per game. As all ork anti-infantry shooting, completely ineffective against MEQ. Seems too expensive - 185 points for an array of one-shot weappons and a pair of weapons great at killing light infantry doesn't cut it. Boyz are awesome at killing light infantry, unless you are the Arch-Arsonist himself and insist on igniting everything, I wouldn't bother.

Blitza Bommer
For another 10 points over the naked Burna Bommer, you get a supa-shoota, a random big shoota and two one-shot bombs that are effectively SAGs shooting a plane instead of snotlings. People are already crying how random boom bombs are, but are missing the point really. No matter what, you get a maximum of two shots at destroying a vehicle by moving within 1" of it. If everything goes well (5+ with 2d6 - or 83.33%) you drop a S7 small blast with 2d6 armor penetration and 1d6 scatter on top of some unlucky tank. Sometimes you even get to blast the vehicle with your shootas as well for awesomeness. Following the bigbomm FAQ, you probably don't get do reduce scatter by BS, but missing a vehicle with 1d6 is hard, and one third are hits anyways. So that's a 83% chance do drop the equivalent of a melta-bomb while moving 13" (you can paint them red! Only useful for this one though imo) and then turn around and blast another vehicle with S6 and S5 into it's rear. Sadly the supa-shoota is the usual BS2 on this one, the big shoota is manned by a grot though.
If something goes wrong (3-4 on 2d6 or 13.99%) you don't drop a bomb and both vehicles suffer an S9 AP2 hit. You bommer is probably taking a penetrating hit from that, but as he is not open topped, chances are still 50-50 of leaving the crash unharmed. However, the other vehicles gets no less than an automatic lascannon hit - last time I checked lascannons were good at destroying vehicles, I really don't see much of a downside. Except the bommer possibly crashing, but on the other hand, you get to keep your bomb and drop it on someone else if it survives.
If something goes terribly wrong (2 on 2d6 or 2.77%) the plane crashes, the fuel and bombs all ignite at once and turn into a huge fireball killing everything close by. No, really. You get to place a large blast marker over the target, scatter it 2d6 and now the big one: It's not a blast weapon. Every unit takes S9 AP2 hits for every model partially under the blast marker. Sounds like a blast? Read it again - every model partially under the blast marker. Including vehicles. No half strength for scattering the hole off. Of course, you can potentially scatter away and hit nothing, but if you do hit something, including vehicles they get lascannon hits. I can't think of anything more awesome than a blitza bommer crashing into an IG or BA parking lot. Lots and lots of dead vehicles.
So, unless you are rolling a snake eyes (which might still result in a lot of things dying), you have a pretty reliable anti-tank platform here. Reliable and anti-tank is very rare for orks, so I think this one's a keeper, too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Witzkatz wrote:Allright I have to ask, where are Orks getting new fliers? What's the source for this? I couldn't find anything on the GW website or ForgeWorld.

Search The Waagh! or Warseer for Dakkajet Rules, Dakkadakka doesn't allow posting them. The will be in the new White Dwarf Issue.

schadenfreude wrote:The dakkajets and lootas are different force orgs. An ork player could take 3 of each.

The dakkajet can move 12 or 13" and shoot everything, so it can keep up with a kff mek in a wagon.

I can also do well in reserve.

Big problem is the av10 and the other side willbe motivated to kill the jet before it can take advantage of a waaaaaaaaaaagh.

This is probably one way to go. AV10 is a problem, but it can stay close to the KFF and isn't open topped. It is most likely more survivable than a unit of buggies. In addition, weapons shooting them are not shooting battlewagons or lootaz meanwhile.

**Ratius**

Survivability is my big issue with these badboys.

Even with a KFF, AV10 is pitiful and as mentioned on a flying base + model size means pretty much no cover on most battlefields one sees.

Will it put out enough damage to counter that vulnerability and make its points back/impact the game?

Im not sure on the better than buggy thing Jid. buggies are easier to hide. There are 3 of them in a unit which means 3 pens rather than just 1, they pack decent firepower themselves and are fairly manouverable. Granted their pen ratios isnt as good but.

Is this thing supersonic? I.e can it move flat out 36 and get a 4+ cover save? That might be decent for flanking tanks etc and getting side/rear armor shots.

**Kharrak**

Ratius wrote:Is this thing supersonic? I.e can it move flat out 36 and get a 4+ cover save? That might be decent for flanking tanks etc and getting side/rear armor shots.

All the Ork fliers have supersonic.

I'm eager to try out the Dakkajet and the Blitzabomma in general - the Burnabomma only really against nids and Orks particularly.

**Jidmah**

]

Ratius wrote:Survivability is my big issue with these badboys.

Even with a KFF, AV10 is pitiful and as mentioned on a flying base + model size means pretty much no cover on most battlefields one sees.

A KFF already gives them cover, making the size irrelevant. Battlewagons and trukks are also quite tall, so if the big mek is inside one, the jets aren't forced to sit on top of it. An AV10 vehicle with a 4+ save is more survivable than a Vendetta.

Will it put out enough damage to counter that vulnerability and make its points back/impact the game?

An almost guaranteed shake of an AV12 vehicle first turn is bound to make an impact. Reserving them is also possible, as 36" flat out moves(to answer your queston) are bound to get them to where they are needed when they arrive.

Im not sure on the better than buggy thing Jid. buggies are easier to hide. There are 3 of them in a unit which means 3 pens rather than just 1

They are destroyed on 5+ by glances and a 3+ by penetrating hits though, where the Dakkajet will only die to penetrating hits scoring a 5+ or more. You also don't hide your buggies most of time, because both the ugly original and the common deff kopta conversion usually can't shoot when hidden.

they pack decent firepower themselves and are fairly manouverable. Granted their pen ratios isnt as good but.

Mind you, this is my first imperession without ever having played them at all. They are very close either way, so it even might boil down to them being equals and a pure matter of taste

**Grundz**

I'm liking the dakkajet
A little pricey, sure, but if supersonic gives the 12" range reduction, or only hit on 6's, or any number of the FW improvements in 6th edition, its a shoe-in.

**Maelstrom808**

Also consider that in 6th, vehicles with supersonic and will likely play very different to how they play currently. In the leaked playtest, the supersonic move made them far more difficult to hit when using supersonic, increasing their survivability. This had the trade off of also making them harder to line up consistantly against targets of worth.

**revackey**

I love the models, heck I'm even planning out the Ork Army I've always wanted to field because of them and throwing my Eldar aside for now. 3 Dakka Jets + 4 BW + 2 Lootas Squads seems nice to me.

I think the big thing is their potential, like said, they'll probably improve in 6E, and being able to spit out 54 S6 shots on a turn 2 WAAGH is awesome.

**MadmanMSU**

I play Blood Angels, so my opinion stems mostly from having used the Stormraven. Given my personal experiences, I don't think the Dakkajet is going to be worth it. I like it on paper, but it will probably suffer from the same situational issues that the Storm-raven does....which is that if it fails it's save, you're out a lot of points. Now, I don't play Orks, so maybe 130-150 points isn't a lot, but I wonder how many Boyz you could have for that much?

Additionally, the impression that I'm getting (which may very well be wrong, time will tell) is that 6th edition is going to be the death of the light transport. So even if the Dakkajet turns out to be the ultimate anti-light vehicle for Orks, I have a sneaking suspicion it won't matter anyway, because people are going to be taking a lot less AV11 hulls.

**ColdSadHungry**

These flyers really do have me worried - I think we're about to see a huge change in the way 40K plays. Imperial Armour 11 contains a vehicle called a firestorm which has 'anti-aircraft' weaponry. And the leaked 6th ed book stated that only units with the 'airborne' rule can assault flyers. These two things alone make it so difficult to consider the worth of flyers whilst we're still in 5th edition regardless of how much firepower they can bring. I think it'll all be down to just how easy one army can deal with them compared to another and we'll only know that once 6th hits. Unlike now, where something like the storm raven is way too easy to shoot down.

**marauder6272**

oh man, I can't wait for these to come out. One of my favorite units from epic 40k were the fighta-bommerz. Mainly, I think, because I just love the idea of ork fighter pilots (yes, Deff Skwadron is one of my favorite comics ever) and the rules are looking interesting. The Blitza-Bommer in particular looking like it could provide orks with some much-needed anti-tank support

**Grundz**

ColdSadHungry wrote:These flyers really do have me worried - I think we're about to see a huge change in the way 40K plays. Imperial Armour 11 contains a vehicle called a firestorm which has 'anti-aircraft' weaponry. And the leaked 6th ed book stated that only units with the 'airborne' rule can assault flyers. These two things alone make it so difficult to consider the worth of flyers whilst we're still in 5th edition regardless of how much firepower they can bring. I think it'll all be down to just how easy one army can deal with them compared to another and we'll only know that once 6th hits. Unlike now, where something like the storm raven is way too easy to shoot down.

exactly

consider
1. they have a big oval base
2. they can't be assaulted

this leads to all kinds of shananagins blocking units that can't move over the base that will totally erupt the game into a firestorm of stupidity.

**MrMoustaffa**

However, if it's a flyer, maybe they'll make it so that units can move through their bases? the thing is "flying" after all.

Another question. How is the KFF going to be measured for this thing? Do we have to measure to the actual fuselage of the aircraft or do we measure to the base? Either way i can see this leading to shenanigans.

**Kharrak**

MrMoustaffa wrote:However, if it's a flyer, maybe they'll make it so that units can move through their bases? the thing is "flying" after all.

Another question. How is the KFF going to be measured for this thing? Do we have to measure to the actual fuselage of the aircraft or do we measure to the base? Either way i can see this leading to shenanigans.

You measure from hull, so from the top of the battlewagon, to any part of the flier.

If the big mek is by himself, it would have to be from the base, unfortunately.

**DakkaHammer**

Kharrak wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:However, if it's a flyer, maybe they'll make it so that units can move through their bases? the thing is "flying" after all.

Another question. How is the KFF going to be measured for this thing? Do we have to measure to the actual fuselage of the aircraft or do we measure to the base? Either way i can see this leading to shenanigans.

You measure from hull, so from the top of the battlewagon, to any part of the flier.

If the big mek is by himself, it would have to be from the base, unfortunately.

Keeping that giant base close to the battewagon is going to mess with keeping my trukks under the KFF too.
And I am a person who likes to ignite everything, so I really want to try out the burna bommer. But is there any way that nearly 200pts for an AV10 vehicle is going to be worth it? I'm assuming that the six skorcha missiles are an important part of the burny death, because I don't see a way that it could get into position to use a burna bomm at cruising speed without dying.

**Vid**

revackey wrote:I love the models, heck I'm even planning out the Ork Army I've always wanted to field because of them and throwing my Eldar aside for now. 3 Dakka Jets + 4 BW + 2 Lootas Squads seems nice to me.

I think the big thing is their potential, like said, they'll probably improve in 6E, and being able to spit out 54 S6 shots on a turn 2 WAAGH is awesome.

Even though the idea of it is cool and they seem like they can dish out quite a hurt, it seems they would lack survivability and I say this because for 140 points you can field about two Deffkopters in its place; and six of them in place of 3 of the jets. I feel that you'd make your boys stay alive faster if your opponent had to shoot 2 LasCannons at 2 Deffcopters then 1 Las at pretty much guaranteed pen against the jet.

With that said any saves that a Jet can make a deffcopter could also make. That's my opinion, anyway.

**Tarkand**

To me, it seems that if you are running Dakkajet, you are running a list with vehicle and a big mek... leave the jet behind the BW, they can shoot over it and have cover. Trukks can be in front/beside the BW.

I don't think cover will be an issue.

**Kasrkin229**

Jidmah wrote:After reading the actual rules and point costs, I'm actually quite happy with them.

Dakkajet
For 120 points (I see no reason to not take the third supa-shoota) you get 9 TL BS3 shots with strength 6 against anything except jumpers (who cares?) and skimmer (*shakes fist towards mech edlar*). You can get an upgrade to hit those at BS3, too, but unless you really hate dark eldar, I wouldn't spend 10 points just for that.
But wait - BS3 twinlinked? As in hitting 75% of the time? With nine strength 6 shots? 18 during our Waagh!?
A rhino will suffer 1.125 penetrating and glancing hits from one volley, the same amount of points in lootaz would cause 1.8 penetrating and .9 glancing, a unit of buggies causes .8 penetrating and .3 glancing.
So lootaz are still better at destroying and supressing vehicles, but buggies are worse than the dakka jet - at least vs AV11. Against AV12 the dakka jet obviously is worse at destroying, but still better at suppressing. So you can pretty much fire a dakka jet across half the table into the front armor of a manticore and expect it to be shaken/stunned/weapon destroyed. Not so for the unit of buggies. 30" range also makes it possible to simply have them flank your KFF mek(s) and shoot from there. Unless you really need a tank dead, there is no need to move out of the protective KFF. In addition to the range, not being open topped also makes them much harder to take out with small arms.
I might be wrong here, but I think it's an improvement over buggies.

Burna Bommer
For just five point more than an upgraded Dakkajet you get two killa koptaz with big shootaz and bombs in one vehicle. If you add another 60 point you can also carpet comb any light infantry of the table once per game. As all ork anti-infantry shooting, completely ineffective against MEQ. Seems too expensive - 185 points for an array of one-shot weappons and a pair of weapons great at killing light infantry doesn't cut it. Boyz are awesome at killing light infantry, unless you are the Arch-Arsonist himself and insist on igniting everything, I wouldn't bother.

Blitza Bommer
For another 10 points over the naked Burna Bommer, you get a supa-shoota, a random big shoota and two one-shot bombs that are effectively SAGs shooting a plane instead of snotlings. People are already crying how random boom bombs are, but are missing the point really. No matter what, you get a maximum of two shots at destroying a vehicle by moving within 1" of it. If everything goes well (5+ with 2d6 - or 83.33%) you drop a S7 small blast with 2d6 armor penetration and 1d6 scatter on top of some unlucky tank. Sometimes you even get to blast the vehicle with your shootas as well for awesomeness. Following the bigbomm FAQ, you probably don't get do reduce scatter by BS, but missing a vehicle with 1d6 is hard, and one third are hits anyways. So that's a 83% chance do drop the equivalent of a melta-bomb while moving 13" (you can paint them red! Only useful for this one though imo) and then turn around and blast another vehicle with S6 and S5 into it's rear. Sadly the supa-shoota is the usual BS2 on this one, the big shoota is manned by a grot though.
If something goes wrong (3-4 on 2d6 or 13.99%) you don't drop a bomb and both vehicles suffer an S9 AP2 hit. You bommer is probably taking a penetrating hit from that, but as he is not open topped, chances are still 50-50 of leaving the crash unharmed. However, the other vehicles gets no less than an automatic lascannon hit - last time I checked lascannons were good at destroying vehicles, I really don't see much of a downside. Except the bommer possibly crashing, but on the other hand, you get to keep your bomb and drop it on someone else if it survives.
If something goes terribly wrong (2 on 2d6 or 2.77%) the plane crashes, the fuel and bombs all ignite at once and turn into a huge fireball killing everything close by. No, really. You get to place a large blast marker over the target, scatter it 2d6 and now the big one: It's not a blast weapon. Every unit takes S9 AP2 hits for every model partially under the blast marker. Sounds like a blast? Read it again - every model partially under the blast marker. Including vehicles. No half strength for scattering the hole off. Of course, you can potentially scatter away and hit nothing, but if you do hit something, including vehicles they get lascannon hits. I can't think of anything more awesome than a blitza bommer crashing into an IG or BA parking lot. Lots and lots of dead vehicles.
So, unless you are rolling a snake eyes (which might still result in a lot of things dying), you have a pretty reliable anti-tank platform here. Reliable and anti-tank is very rare for orks, so I think this one's a keeper, too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Witzkatz wrote:Allright I have to ask, where are Orks getting new fliers? What's the source for this? I couldn't find anything on the GW website or ForgeWorld.

Search The Waagh! or Warseer for Dakkajet Rules, Dakkadakka doesn't allow posting them. The will be in the new White Dwarf Issue.

schadenfreude wrote:The dakkajets and lootas are different force orgs. An ork player could take 3 of each.

The dakkajet can move 12 or 13" and shoot everything, so it can keep up with a kff mek in a wagon.

I can also do well in reserve.

Big problem is the av10 and the other side willbe motivated to kill the jet before it can take advantage of a waaaaaaaaaaagh.

This is probably one way to go. AV10 is a problem, but it can stay close to the KFF and isn't open topped. It is most likely more survivable than a unit of buggies. In addition, weapons shooting them are not shooting battlewagons or lootaz meanwhile.

Keep in mind with Flyers all normally front armor shots count as side armor .....

**MrMoustaffa**

Went to my FLGS today and talked to a couple of our vets today about the fliers. These guys routinely go to the big tourneys, and know a good amount about most armies and what they tend to bring at the big games. Both are Space wolf/ IG players mainly, if that helps any.

At first glance they were not impressed with any of the ork planes. Then I mentioned the dakka jet and how I couldn't wait to get one, both look back and start reading the rules, and got very excited. Interestingly, they werent concerned with the ace pilot, and instead only talked about the extra supa shoota and the waagh rule. They came to the consesus that dakkajets are going to become very common in tourneys before 6th, and that reserving them until a waaaagh gets called could be very nasty. As one guy put it "I have a feeling we're going to be facing a LOT of those." Another interesting thing they mentioned was that while the thing is dead the turn it arrives, turbo boosting to opposite corners of the enemy deployment could be very rough on both their guard and wolves armies, as they would have to make some tough decisions on what to shoot. Then again, the fact you can shake one with a bolter doesnt bode well for them, so they'd stil probably die

I know it's not much, but the fact that two of the big players at my store both think they'll be a threat is a good sign. Obviously we wont know for sure until they come out, but it's good to hear nonetheless. If they're playing 2 of the toughest armies in the game right now and they're concerned about it, these might be handy afterall...

**wuestenfux**

Well, flyers are always tough to face. Staying in reserve and getting cover saves from staying behind terrain (or a battle wagon) or turbo boosting will help to keep them alive.
The enemy has to make some tough decisions what to shoot. After all, a flyer can contest and this will make the enemy's decisions even harder.

**grendel083**

Might be seeing more Weirdboyz, more Waaagh! means more Dakka!

**InquisitorVaron**

Grendel your a genius. I had a Weirdboy in my previous list and now it ties in and makes it even stronger I'm happy

Now to make him tie in with the whole Orkie squadron theme....

**geordie09**

Its a shame you can't squadron them like vendettas, it'd be nice to take it to the Imp Guard players who overload on them at tournaments!

**grendel083**

InquisitorVaron wrote:Grendel your a genius. I had a Weirdboy in my previous list and now it ties in and makes it even stronger I'm happy

Now to make him tie in with the whole Orkie squadron theme....

Model your Weirdboy with a large walkie talkie.

"Dis is Oddboy to BigBird, come in over."
"BigBird 'ere, go ahead, over."
"WAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHH!!!! over"
"Copy 'dat, WAAAAAAAGGGHHH!!! DAKKADAKKA!!... over"

**gpfunk**

grendel083 wrote:
InquisitorVaron wrote:Grendel your a genius. I had a Weirdboy in my previous list and now it ties in and makes it even stronger I'm happy

Now to make him tie in with the whole Orkie squadron theme....

Model your Weirdboy with a large walkie talkie.

"Dis is Oddboy to BigBird, come in over."
"BigBird 'ere, go ahead, over."
"WAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHH!!!! over"
"Copy 'dat, WAAAAAAAGGGHHH!!! DAKKADAKKA!!... over"

If I could play this every time, I'd bring three dakka jets to all my games.

**bmoleski**

I kinda feel like all the new aircraft are gimmicky. A sales ploy by GW (which is fine and dandy) but I can't help but feel......meh. I'm kinda tired of GW coming out with all kinds of new things all the time when they can't even keep their codicies updated.