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Wasn't there a picture of a dakka jet with three pairs of supa-shootas in the white dwarf?

InquisitorVaron wrote:But we're still all in agreement about the Dakkajet with extra shoota is the way forward?

Yes. Fighter Ace upgrade still seems up in the air though.

Considering taking three. Supersonic over the enemy first turn. Then, shoot the enemy vehicles in the back. If they turn around to return fire, your lootas shoot them in the back instead.

I run a biker boyz list and am seriously considering afding a pair of these

I'm not impressed with the representation of these airplanes in the rules. Skimmers, even fast skimmers, have always represented low-flying, hovering vehicles, usually tanks, that glide just off the surface (hence being assaultable).

Planes, especially ork planes, shouldn't be hovering, and that seems to be the way that you'll need to use these; hovering near a big mek.

Maybe 6e will present better flyer rules, more in-line with the apocalypse rules. Always being visible (big and high up), and AV10 is no way to go through life unless you're hard to hit, and jet planes should be required to move every turn. I can't buy that the orks have (or would want) harrier tech.

I agree I would rather see them keep up on codices, but they are never going to do that, instead they will take time to come out with stupid games like dreadfleet and more hobbits in Dec which does anyone play LOTR?

Redbeard wrote:I'm not impressed with the representation of these airplanes in the rules. Skimmers, even fast skimmers, have always represented low-flying, hovering vehicles, usually tanks, that glide just off the surface (hence being assaultable).

Planes, especially ork planes, shouldn't be hovering, and that seems to be the way that you'll need to use these; hovering near a big mek.

Maybe 6e will present better flyer rules, more in-line with the apocalypse rules. Always being visible (big and high up), and AV10 is no way to go through life unless you're hard to hit, and jet planes should be required to move every turn. I can't buy that the orks have (or would want) harrier tech.

Hey... take a look at this:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/451843.page
Cliffnotes...
Step 1: Take DakkaJets with RPJ
Step 2: Move 13" to get 4+ coversave and still shoot
Step 3: cut your KFF mek umbilical cord and wreck havoc!

whembly wrote:

Redbeard wrote:I'm not impressed with the representation of these airplanes in the rules. Skimmers, even fast skimmers, have always represented low-flying, hovering vehicles, usually tanks, that glide just off the surface (hence being assaultable).

Planes, especially ork planes, shouldn't be hovering, and that seems to be the way that you'll need to use these; hovering near a big mek.

Maybe 6e will present better flyer rules, more in-line with the apocalypse rules. Always being visible (big and high up), and AV10 is no way to go through life unless you're hard to hit, and jet planes should be required to move every turn. I can't buy that the orks have (or would want) harrier tech.

Hey... take a look at this:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/451843.page
Cliffnotes...
Step 1: Take DakkaJets with RPJ
Step 2: Move 13" to get 4+ coversave and still shoot
Step 3: cut your KFF mek umbilical cord and wreck havoc!

Doesn't work that way, unfortunately... To get the 4+ save, you have to go 'Flat Out' (not Combat Speed). RP may let you move more than 12", but for you still count (!) as moving with Combat Speed (-> not 'Flat Out'), thus no save. At least that's how I read it...

Okay, let's say the RPJ trick does work. You still have a JET FIGHTER restraining its speed to 13", slower than a trukk can drive over rough ground (and roughly half-as-fast as a trukk can move over a road) in order to shoot something.

I don't see what was wrong with the apoc flyer rules, and why they didn't adapt them for normal 40k games. Maybe things that work like Blackhawks are reasonable to consider skimmers, but not fighter jets.

I am honestly really stoked about the fliers. They just look incredibly badass. Can't wait to fill up that FA with the Dakka Jets. The idea of 'em doing a fly by over a wall of battlewagons seems so epic. Anywho, enough fan boying.

Certainly wish they had given them something just a bit more av than 10. I mean...at least as much as a rhino for feth sake!

I agree, they appear too vulnerable as is. But, airplanes shouldn't have thick armour. What they should have is a way to avoid getting hit, whether that be a built-in cover save or a modifier to opponent hit rolls.

I think the DakkaJets are either in a fast army (Kult of Speed) or used as a firing platform under the KFF bubble.

I think they synergize really well with biker lists or a trukk spam list... as it forces your opponent some tuff target priorities.

What army do people think they will work best along side? Mech, infantry horde or what ever?

I was thinking either battlewagon spam or a biker lists. Both match up nicely with the mentality of the jets speed and they dont really have to worry about their FA slot being used up on jets.

Yeah I don't think they will match up well with a foot / khan wall, but may try it out and will post to let you know how it worked, however I think they are more suited for a BW list with BM and KFF so they can move and shoot and still get cover save.
Think I will use the Dakka Jet mostly, but just picked up an old FW Ork /Bomma so will try the fighta-bomba too, but don't think I will run that much.

Jidmah wrote:Nothing prevents you from flying sideways though. You also don't need to fly over the unit, you stop 1" from the unit and drop the bomb, then you can continue to move wherever you want, as long as you are not going flat-out.

Yeah, you could fly sideways, but it's still a fairly large base.
It's the Blitza-bommer where you stop an inch away, and when you drop the bomb you stop, you can only move again in your next turn. The burna-bommer though you have to do the same thing as a deffkopta and drop the bomb on a model you moved over.

Zogash wrote:

Doesn't work that way, unfortunately... To get the 4+ save, you have to go 'Flat Out' (not Combat Speed). RP may let you move more than 12", but for you still count (!) as moving with Combat Speed (-> not 'Flat Out'), thus no save. At least that's how I read it...

Actually, I just called GW on this, because I wouldn't dare take any form of unsavable av10.

According to the customer support, the way the RPJ rule is written, if you don't go any more than 13" (but more than 12"), you get to fire all gunz AND you'll get the save!

WHAT! Awesome!
Now to convince everyone else of this...
Edit: Wait, what did they say about it exactly?

"Wow, the way the red paint rule is written, it looks like you get to fire and get the save, as long as you don't go over 13"."

Interesting, thanks.
I wonder what the replies to this are going to look like.

Now I just need to tweak my list to get that RPJ in there...

Dr. What wrote:"Wow, the way the red paint rule is written, it looks like you get to fire and get the save, as long as you don't go over 13"."

Quick, quote this for truth and send this over to YMDC!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/451843.page

It's already there.

gpfunk wrote:

Dr. What wrote:"Wow, the way the red paint rule is written, it looks like you get to fire and get the save, as long as you don't go over 13"."

Quick, quote this for truth and send this over to YMDC!

This as actually been discussed several times on the YMDC. Red Paint job says that the ork player does not incur in any penalty. For these reason people claim you can move 7'' count as moving six but the other player will be hitting you on sixes on the assault because for him you moved more than 6''. So if the same applies to the planes then you would count as moving more than 12'' so flat out and you get the cover

So much for Bad Moon and Goff jets :(

Redbeard wrote:So much for Bad Moon and Goff jets :(

And deff skulls, blood axes and maybe snakebites...

loota boy wrote:

Redbeard wrote:So much for Bad Moon and Goff jets :(

And deff skulls, blood axes and maybe snakebites...

Nah, deathskulls planes could be painted red under the blue.

DakkaHammer wrote:

loota boy wrote:

Redbeard wrote:So much for Bad Moon and Goff jets :(

And deff skulls, blood axes and maybe snakebites...

Nah, deathskulls planes could be painted red under the blue.

Heh. Thanks for going after an old deff skull's heart. That made me smile.

No offense guys, but I wont believe this whole "if we move 13", we can shoot AND get the 4+ save!" Thing until I see it in a FAQ.

reason being is that the rule says, quote:

Red paint Job: "Ork vehicles with red paint jobs add +1 to their movement phase but do not incur penalties for this extra inch. For example, a vehicle could move 13" and still count as moving 12." pg. 93 ork codex

You still count for all intensive purposes as moving 12 inches. It's just you got to move an extra inch instead. You would still count as cruising, even though you went 13. By "no penalties" they seem to imply that moving 13" still lets you fire you fire your weapons, disembark, etc.

And also, no offense to the dude who called customer support, but do you have any proof? For all we know, you could be lying and just be hoping we accept it as fact.

MrMoustaffa wrote:No offense guys, but I wont believe this whole "if we move 13", we can shoot AND get the 4+ save!" Thing until I see it in a FAQ.

reason being is that the rule says, quote:

Red paint Job: "Ork vehicles with red paint jobs add +1 to their movement phase but do not incur penalties for this extra inch. For example, a vehicle could move 13" and still count as moving 12." pg. 93 ork codex

You still count for all intensive purposes as moving 12 inches. It's just you got to move an extra inch instead. You would still count as cruising, even though you went 13. By "no penalties" they seem to imply that moving 13" still lets you fire you fire your weapons, disembark, etc.

And also, no offense to the dude who called customer support, but do you have any proof? For all we know, you could be lying and just be hoping we accept it as fact.

I really think we should just not get into this. Every time this debate comes up, it devoures the entire thread. This has been done to death on YMDC, and every single time, no-one is convinced of anything. Lets just not do this.

I was thinking about this list and I love avaition, so ya needless to say I will have a few of these planes here shortly for my list.

See I don't know, should I run them with one group of bikers and have two planes or two groups of bikers and one plane.

I have a feeling that my ork list will never be complete. But at least this saves me the money of converting a looted SR to serve as the IA model.