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Yes, I have used the search function but have not gotten a answer. It seems to me that all space marines die in combat before old age, but if a space marine was fed etc. could they live forever?

Commander Dante is over 1,100 years old, so by the seems of it, i would say they only die in battle.

Good question. I have no idea. It's clear they do age over their great lifespans, but I've never heard of a SM dying peacefully.

Blood Angels have notoriously long lifespans, which means that the other chapters must have shorter ones.

I think the average would probably die somewhere between 500-600, average Blood Angel probably 1500-2000 years. That's really old either way, though.

The figure 400-600 has been often mentionned in fluff, IIRC. I think regular humans can get up to 200+ with youth cure and commercial augments. Mechanicus augments are probably incredibly better than the normally available ones.

Any reason why Blood Angel get this stupid long lifespan? Further emphasis on the Space Vampire IN SPAAAAACE theme??

In Salamander they find a SM who was alive durring the heresy, Just sitting on the deck of a ship chilling, not eating anything.
So yeah, they can.

Kovnik Obama wrote:Any reason why Blood Angel get this stupid long lifespan? Further emphasis on the Space Vampire IN SPAAAAACE theme??

Yes, but it's fluff that's been around for over a decade. Cut it some slack. It's easy enough to attribute it to their geneseed.

Hasn't Grimnar been the Great Wolf for 800 years, so wolves can live longer than 800 years.

Hey, it was dumb fluff back then, it's their fault for not retconning it.

The truth is, there is no marine that has died of natural causes on record. They are functionally immortal.

Thats the tricky thing with Immortality. It isn't something that can be proven.

From 2nd Edition:

"Although long lived, the Primarchs were not immortal and the last of their kind finally died after fourteen hundred years."

If the Primarch's aren't, I hardly believe regular marines are.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:From 2nd Edition:

"Although long lived, the Primarchs were not immortal and the last of their kind finally died after fourteen hundred years."

If the Primarch's aren't, I hardly believe regular marines are.

Right, problem with that is, the current and therefore canon fluff is that none of the Primarchs died of natural causes.

Lion, Guilliman - incapacitated/in stasis
Khan, Russ, Vulkan, Corax - wandering around someplace
Dorn, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Kurze, Horus - KIA
Fulgrim, Lorgar, Angron, Magnus, Perturabo, Mortarion - Daemon Princes
Alpharius Omegon - go ask around, I'm not saying anything about those two

Yeah, the vast bulk of 2nd edition fluff is not going to be valid.

To be fair, there are those who will defend the second edition fluff, claiming that it represents a different (and conflicting) viewpoint, but that different, and conflicting, viewpoints are all we have to go on in 40k, and it is just as valid (although not as numerous) as the later editions' 'opinions.'

If this thread continues on long enough, and we all believe hard enough, the Lynata-fairy will come along and back up what I just said with some quotes from some official names.

Also, in the novel Salamander by Nick Kyme there is a Space Marine who is old enough to be dying of natural causes. (Old age.) Before he can actually die that way he is given the Emperor's Peace. For further queries on this topic, I would recommend this thread, where we talk about this in one part of the rambling conversation.

Tadashi wrote:
Lion, Guilliman - incapacitated/in stasis

Rumours of Guilliman being alive, rather than a perfectly preserved body, are just that. Rumours.

Khan, Russ, Vulkan, Corax - wandering around someplace

And there has been very little over the past 10 or so millenia to suggest they are still alive. No one can say with any sort of authority that they're definitely, or even probably, still alive. There are plenty of figures both in history and legend where they have simply vanished and are mentioned in prophecies to return in our time of need. It's hardly a solid argument for their continued existence.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
And there has been very little over the past 10 or so millenia to suggest they are still alive. No one can say with any sort of authority that they're definitely, or even probably, still alive. There are plenty of figures both in history and legend where they have simply vanished and are mentioned in prophecies to return in our time of need. It's hardly a solid argument for their continued existence.

Ah, but it's never been said either way...that's GW for you.

Tadashi wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:
And there has been very little over the past 10 or so millenia to suggest they are still alive. No one can say with any sort of authority that they're definitely, or even probably, still alive. There are plenty of figures both in history and legend where they have simply vanished and are mentioned in prophecies to return in our time of need. It's hardly a solid argument for their continued existence.

Ah, but it's never been said either way...that's GW for you.

Of course nothing has been said either way. It's just that we can't use the Primarchs as evidence of immortality because there is very little to suggest that they are still alive.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:
And there has been very little over the past 10 or so millenia to suggest they are still alive. No one can say with any sort of authority that they're definitely, or even probably, still alive. There are plenty of figures both in history and legend where they have simply vanished and are mentioned in prophecies to return in our time of need. It's hardly a solid argument for their continued existence.

Ah, but it's never been said either way...that's GW for you.

Of course nothing has been said either way. It's just that we can't use the Primarchs as evidence of immortality because there is very little to suggest that they are still alive.

The only immortal we know is the Emperor - He may or may not have passed that on to the Primarchs. I'm in favor though - the Lion is still alive and he's not in stasis. Seeing as no new Dark Angel fluff contradicts this, I'm guessing it has to be canon. What's more, as the last living loyal Primarch, if he ever wakes up, he would be the heir to the Imperial Throne, making him the Imperium's last hope for leadership in these dark years.

***BROTHERS! PREPARE TO RECEIVE LION AND DARK ANGEL HATERS!***

Tadashi wrote:
The only immortal we know is the Emperor - He may or may not have passed that on to the Primarchs.

They are his creation, not his progeny. And even his direct descendants (however contested their existence might be) are not immortal.

the Lion is still alive and he's not in stasis. Seeing as no new Dark Angel fluff contradicts this, I'm guessing it has to be canon.

I can't recall it being said outright as a fact, though it was certainly believed by...

[/spoiler] Luther, and this would mean that even your average human is somehow capable of being immortal, since he was not a Space Marine but an otherwise genetically modified warrior. I'd suggest that the means of prolonging his life are somehow unnatural, and possibly even warp related given the nature of the Rock.[/spoiler]

What's more, as the last living loyal Primarch, if he ever wakes up, he would be the heir to the Imperial Throne, making him the Imperium's last hope for leadership in these dark years.

I don't think the Emperor set it out like this, in fact I'm not sure if he ever planned on declaring an heir at all. And with the terrible, terrible way the Lion has gone about things I'd bloody well hope the High Lords execute him on the spot rather than let him take the helm.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
The only immortal we know is the Emperor - He may or may not have passed that on to the Primarchs.

They are his creation, not his progeny. And even his direct descendants (however contested their existence might be) are not immortal.

the Lion is still alive and he's not in stasis. Seeing as no new Dark Angel fluff contradicts this, I'm guessing it has to be canon.

I can't recall it being said outright as a fact, though it was certainly believed by...

Spoiler:

Luther, and this would mean that even your average human is somehow capable of being immortal, since he was not a Space Marine but an otherwise genetically modified warrior. I'd suggest that the means of prolonging his life are somehow unnatural, and possibly even warp related given the nature of the Rock.

Given that Imperial technology was more advanced during the Great Crusade, I'd say this proves Astartes and gene-enhanced trans-humans can be immortal, so long as they don't get killed.

What's more, as the last living loyal Primarch, if he ever wakes up, he would be the heir to the Imperial Throne, making him the Imperium's last hope for leadership in these dark years.

I don't think the Emperor set it out like this, in fact I'm not sure if he ever planned on declaring an heir at all. And with the terrible, terrible way the Lion has gone about things I'd bloody well hope the High Lords execute him on the spot rather than let him take the helm.

I'm willing to risk Lion taking command. Even if he doesn't take the Throne, the High Lords can just make him Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him a seat at the Council - a compromise for everyone. A Primarch's leadership is something not to be thrown aside as easily as that. Besides, as a loyal Primarch, Lion's a saint - they aren't stupid enough to risk tearing the Imperium apart.

I kinda like Lion and the Dark Angels. He just didn't know Perturabo was a traitor, and the reason he didn't go to Terra at first was because of Warp interference and the rather persistent efforts of the Night Lords. By the time they broke through, it was too late.

Apparently some Furioso Dreadnauts fought at the Siege of the Imperial Palace, as Marines that is. I don't think it's much of a stretch that other Chapters Venerable Dreadnauts have the potential to live as long.

though I would believe that if a Marine was getting old they could just have their failing organs replaced. it's much easier to replace some vitals than 500 years of combat experience.

Tadashi wrote:
Given that Imperial technology was more advanced during the Great Crusade, I'd say this proves Astartes and gene-enhanced trans-humans can be immortal, so long as they don't get killed.

Slightly more advanced, what with the prevalence of jetbikes and the like. I'd argue it's not to the extent of endowing immortality. Luthar wasn't an extremely important person (one of the reasons he rebelled). It's far more likely that the warp-related rip resulting in the destruction of Caliban is the source of Luthar's longevity. And it by no means suggests that Lion El'Johnson still draws breath. It's no more likely than any of the other missing primarchs.

I'm willing to risk Lion taking command. Even if he doesn't take the Throne, the High Lords can just make him Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him a seat at the Council - a compromise for everyone. A Primarch's leadership is something not to be thrown aside as easily as that. Besides, as a loyal Primarch, Lion's a saint - they aren't stupid enough to risk tearing the Imperium apart.

Of course not, but it's not like the Lion is exactly going to have a massive following. Killing him off quietly will be relatively easy, even for a primarch. And 'quietly' can mean anything from a single Callidus assassin to a galaxy wide declaration that the Dark Angels are now Exommunicate Traitoris. The Imperium has managed to keep word of the Daemon Prince Primarchs from most of the populace, adding one more on the traitor list isn't going to tear the Imperium asunder.

I kinda like Lion and the Dark Angels. He just didn't know Perturabo was a traitor, and the reason he didn't go to Terra at first was because of Warp interference and the rather persistent efforts of the Night Lords. By the time they broke through, it was too late.

That's if you believe that he really was delayed, and not just holding back to see who was coming out on top.

I was reading the third book in the space wolf omnibus last night and it stated that it was very rare indeed for a space wolf not to die in battle. So I guess from this authors view they are not immortal?

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Of course not, but it's not like the Lion is exactly going to have a massive following. Killing him off quietly will be relatively easy, even for a primarch. And 'quietly' can mean anything from a single Callidus assassin to a galaxy wide declaration that the Dark Angels are now Exommunicate Traitoris. The Imperium has managed to keep word of the Daemon Prince Primarchs from most of the populace, adding one more on the traitor list isn't going to tear the Imperium asunder.

It's not like the Dark Angels have no allies of their own. The Emperor knows where Lion is and that he's asleep. If Lion did wake and the High Lords ordered him to be assassinated, Custodes would break into the Council Chambers and bring the entire Council to face the Emperor Himself. Later on, the shaken Council returns to their Chambers and rescinds the decision. Don't forget the Ordo Malleus Inner Circle also has audience rights to the Emperor. The Emperor would tell them to prevent Lion from getting assassinated by the Imperium's own intrigue. Want to disobey? Feel free - just don't complain when a nine-foot tall Custodian shows up on your doorstep and 'invites' you to an audience with the Emperor. Those same Custodians would intercept any Assassin.

I kinda like Lion and the Dark Angels. He just didn't know Perturabo was a traitor, and the reason he didn't go to Terra at first was because of Warp interference and the rather persistent efforts of the Night Lords. By the time they broke through, it was too late.

That's if you believe that he really was delayed, and not just holding back to see who was coming out on top.

I do. I never really understood why people hate Lion and his legion. They were noble warriors, and they still are, even if they're a somewhat sinister lot.

+1

I think he is the best (or close) amongst a broken lot.

There was several threads on this topic, and the final word was: we don't know as no Space Marine ever died of natural death.

Tadashi wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Of course not, but it's not like the Lion is exactly going to have a massive following. Killing him off quietly will be relatively easy, even for a primarch. And 'quietly' can mean anything from a single Callidus assassin to a galaxy wide declaration that the Dark Angels are now Exommunicate Traitoris. The Imperium has managed to keep word of the Daemon Prince Primarchs from most of the populace, adding one more on the traitor list isn't going to tear the Imperium asunder.

It's not like the Dark Angels have no allies of their own. The Emperor knows where Lion is and that he's asleep. If Lion did wake and the High Lords ordered him to be assassinated, Custodes would break into the Council Chambers and bring the entire Council to face the Emperor Himself. Later on, the shaken Council returns to their Chambers and rescinds the decision. Don't forget the Ordo Malleus Inner Circle also has audience rights to the Emperor. The Emperor would tell them to prevent Lion from getting assassinated by the Imperium's own intrigue. Want to disobey? Feel free - just don't complain when a nine-foot tall Custodian shows up on your doorstep and 'invites' you to an audience with the Emperor. Those same Custodians would intercept any Assassin.

1) If the Emperor is taking such an active role why is Lion taking the reins?
2) Why is Lion considered the heir? If the Horus Heresy taught us anything it is that Primarchs are fine commanders of super-human troops but terrible leaders for the rest of mankind.
3) The Custodes intervened at the height of Vandire Heresy, and there is little evidence of their meddling elsewhere. You can't say that the Emperor would even known about the move to silence to unstable factor that is Lion, let alone oppose it.
4) Where is the evidence that the Lion is anymore alive than the other missing Primarchs? So far we only have conjecture, rumours and prophecy, which is about the same as what the Space Wolves have.

I do. I never really understood why people hate Lion and his legion. They were noble warriors, and they still are, even if they're a somewhat sinister lot.

There's a fair bit of evidence (by way of novels only) that the Lion was nowhere near as loyal to Emperor as you suggest. He was, after all, raised in complete isolation from humanity for the majority of his childhood.

My money is on that they are biologically immortal

When a SM is wounded beyond medical care, they are put in a Dreadnought, and that keeps them alive.

Hazardous Harry wrote: 4) Where is the evidence that the Lion is anymore alive than the other missing Primarchs? So far we only have conjecture, rumours and prophecy, which is about the same as what the Space Wolves have.

Actually, that's more. Prophecies have a nasty habit of coming true. All the Space Wolves have is the primarch who thought Magnus was in the wrong but his rune priests were all good promising to come back. Tell me, which one do you trust more in the 40k universe?