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 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Sorry if this has already been talked about, but is the Noctilith Crown in the codex?

It's been unavailable on the GW site for so long that I had assumed that they were going to remove it.

It is. Its 4++ vs shooting bubble expands over the course of the battle, it has guns, and psykers and priests can spend an action to get CP and replace powers/prayers. ~100 points.

-----

Goonhammer review_s_ are up. All nicely chopped up so they don't have to discuss the codex as a whole ( for example, in the legion bit, Night Lords have been 'done right by,' only when we get to the dataslates do we learn that jump packs went poof for everything but the two FA units and that 'sucks'. This is never reconciled).

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-chaos-space-marines-9th-edition-review-part-1-overview-and-army-rules/

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-chaos-space-marines-9th-edition-review-part-2-the-traitor-legions/

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-chaos-space-marines-review-9th-part-3-the-datasheets/

Even aside all the missing stuff, Datasheets sound either pretty awful (cultist command squad) or obviously good (possessed or for a mark/icon unit: bikers).
Cultist are blah, get ObjSec but essentially nothing from standard buffs and are still 1 per marine unit.

Loss of super-doctrines is IMO good for less rules bloat, but fething just _mean_ to apply to this codex as the first victim.
Same for custom traits. And traitor guard. and all the wargear.

The good: improvement for vehicles (lascannon pred did get T8 and the better lascannons for its turrets. Autocannon pred just got t8, which is sad). Not sure how long this will take to proliferate, but it undoubtedly will.
There are builds here. But at first glance, its mostly running up on people with fast units who have too many attacks and lots of buffs.

Also Red Corsairs and Creations of Bile are legions now. Fluff, what's that? Both seem good at doing what this book does best: Run up and punch people in the face.
RC: 1) Advance and charge;
2) count as two models for objective control, or 5 models if 10+ wounds.
CoB: 1) +1 move and strength, and;
2) in melee, if it dies before fighting, it fights anyway, then gets removed (counts as having 1 wound for things with degrading profiles).

 Crimson wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, if Chaos ascendant blessing put a Primarch above the Emperor it makes sense it would put a marine above a Primarch. Abby also has WAY more experience than Guilliman at this point, and better wargear to boot.

Right. Chaos could boost a half-marine Luther to be a threat to Lion El'Jonson.

exactly and the Lion was easily one of if not outright the best combatant.

Snugiraffe wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The Night Lords trait was actually nerfed from its playtest version. No more +1 to advance and charge. We did get the +1 to wound in melee though.....against L5, not L6. So much for it working on loyalists.

Though that does mean that Raptors and – crucially – the new Possessed will get the +1 to wound against a lot of units, seeing as they bring a native -1 Ld on top of the trait. Also, do we know if the trait stacks? Its range has increased to 9", so it might not be that difficult to bring Ld8 units down to 5.
Possessed needing 4+ to wound against anything that's T6 to T9 sounds OK. Plus you can warp-mark their target for another +1 (do bonuses to wound rolls stack? they do, right?).

Now, off to ebay to buy some more of those Greater Possessed to fill in the gap until GW actually starts selling the new ones, lol.

They cap at +/-1.

So if you have +2 to-wound, it's the same as +1 unless you're also dealing with a wound malus.

 Sasori wrote:

No custom faction building... is that something going away moving forward or they just didn't put in the work to balance it.

Without the codex in my hand to read it for myself and reflect upon it, I can't disagree with your overall assessment. However, I think in the case of no build-a-warband rules, it makes a sort of twisted sense as so much is tied to individual legions. More so than many previous codices, possibly.

There are a number of warlord traits, relics and stratagems tied to each legion that appear to really define what a CSM army is going to going forward. CSM have usually leaned heavy on powerful characters. I think this codex is no exception. It may swing even more into 'herohammer'. Part thinks that build-a-warband lists would be fairly crippled without access to legion specific stuff, and at the same time, GW didn't like the idea of players going dim sum with subfaction rules, warlord traits, relics and stratagems to cover that gap.

It is definitely a strange way to go about things to me. I am not sure if it works, but until I can see for myself; I am also unable to say it won't. I don't think CSM are going to light the tournament world on fire like some 60%+ factions did, but I also have my doubts that CSM are going to be initial Necrons or Orks bad either. I think there are some builds that could work. And for the near future, I see mediocre players letting Abaddon carry them to a few wins until GW reigns the Warmaster in a bit.

After listening to some reviews of the codex, nope, not buying it. I'm also not going to buy the Torments, several boxes of Possessed, Cult Marines, mutants, and helbrute that I had originally planned to get. I'm going to be sending GW an email and a letter detailing my biggest complaints; No Legion traits for Cult Marines and the requirement that they buy a Chaos mark despite it being baked into their profiles, no Core for Possessed, heavy restrictions on what weapons and other gear that can be taken. At least the first two have to get an errata or I'll be passing up this edition of CSM entirely.

I'm guessing that the correct email address to use is 40kFAQ@gwplc.com.

So, no 'build a warband' rules. You just pick a Legion and go with that.

Marks don't apply to Daemonkin, so no marks for your Possessed to boost them up.

Two more things I was looking forward to. Oh well.

What an underwhelming and asstastic roll out.

Pass on all.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well the Exalted Champion is exactly as rumoured. No more. No less.

That's depressing.

Also:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I watched the GMG review and as he flipped through the front section he said Huron Blackheart is a Primaris marine now. That made me laugh. It's just so weird and unnecessary since they didn't bother to give him a new model.

And the only Autogun -- Oh, excuse me, I mean "Cultist Firearm" -- models I saw were the ones from Blackstone Fortress. I'm guessing that means the new box doesn't come with Autoguns or special weapons.

Skipped to the 'final thoughts' section of the Tabletop Tactics video. Not what I expected, at all.

But then the standard they seem to be using for 'great book' is 'not broken' (ie Tyranids, Custodes, Harlequins), rather than 'interesting' or 'fluffy.'

Voss wrote:
Cultist are blah, get ObjSec but essentially nothing from standard buffs and are still 1 per marine unit.

Aaaand there goes any lingering interest I had in expanding my Sevants of the Abyss into a proper force.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Voss wrote:
Cultist are blah, get ObjSec but essentially nothing from standard buffs and are still 1 per marine unit.

Aaaand there goes any lingering interest I had in expanding my Sevants of the Abyss into a proper force.

Yeah... and weirder, releasing the book ahead of the new cultist kits means really terrible sales for those kits (except maybe muties and not-spawn, because some people seem really convinced they can fix them with enough buffs)

Voss wrote:

Goonhammer reviews are up. All nicely chopped up so they don't have to discuss the codex as a whole ( for example, in the legion bit, Night Lords have been 'done right by,' only when we get to the dataslates do we learn that jump packs went poof for everything but the two FA units and that 'sucks'. This is never reconciled).

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-chaos-space-marines-9th-edition-review-part-1-overview-and-army-rules/

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-chaos-space-marines-9th-edition-review-part-2-the-traitor-legions/

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-chaos-space-marines-review-9th-part-3-the-datasheets/

Even aside all the missing stuff, Datasheets sound either pretty awful (cultist command squad) or obviously good (possessed or for a mark/icon unit: bikers).
Cultist are blah, get ObjSec but essentially nothing from standard buffs and are still 1 per marine unit.

Loss of super-doctrines is IMO good for less rules bloat, but fething just _mean_ to apply to this codex as the first victim.
Same for custom traits. And traitor guard. and all the wargear.

The good: improvement for vehicles (lascannon pred did get T8 and the better lascannons for its turrets. Autocannon pred just got t8, which is sad). Not sure how long this will take to proliferate, but it undoubtedly will.
There are builds here. But at first glance, its mostly running up on people with fast units who have too many attacks and lots of buffs.

Also Red Corsairs and Creations of Bile are legions now. Fluff, what's that? Both seem good at doing what this book does best: Run up and punch people in the face.
RC: 1) Advance and charge;
2) count as two models for objective control, or 5 models if 10+ wounds.
CoB: 1) +1 move and strength, and;
2) in melee, if it dies before fighting, it fights anyway, then gets removed (counts as having 1 wound for things with degrading profiles).

These articles are littered with mistakes.

In at least 3 different locations, I've been told that EC:

Get Mark of Slaanesh, only on the things that can be marked.

Get Mark of Slaanesh, even on things that can't normally be marked

Get the Slaanesh keyword on things that can't be marked, but not the Mark of Slaanesh (with its bonus rules)

Not to mention two different instances where they say the Mark is free for EC, or it's not.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Voss wrote:
Cultist are blah, get ObjSec but essentially nothing from standard buffs and are still 1 per marine unit.

Aaaand there goes any lingering interest I had in expanding my Sevants of the Abyss into a proper force.

Same here. I cannot fathom why they don't lean into that more. I'd love to have more human chaos worshippers, but GW seems adamantly against it.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Voss wrote:
Cultist are blah, get ObjSec but essentially nothing from standard buffs and are still 1 per marine unit.

Aaaand there goes any lingering interest I had in expanding my Sevants of the Abyss into a proper force.

Same here. I cannot fathom why they don't lean into that more. I'd love to have more human chaos worshippers, but GW seems adamantly against it.

probably the 40k rules team is still salty that IA13 was just better designed than anything they released at the same time.



____________

as an aside, when will loyalists loose jumppack and bike access for their HQ?

not being spitefull here, mostly just concerned.

___________

also literally no negative reviews really.

What a great book...

I was looking over this page concerning the Cult Marines, and based on how the rules are written, if we add them to our armies, do we have to pay the fifteen points to upgrade them with the Chaos mark in addition to their normal model cost? Because that doesn't make much sense since the marks are built into their profiles:

Half this book doesn't make sense.

It's a shame as they made a lot of cool things at the same time.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I was looking over this page concerning the Cult Marines, and based on how the rules are written, if we add them to our armies, do we have to pay the fifteen points to upgrade them with the Chaos mark in addition to their normal model cost? Because that doesn't make much sense since the marks are built into their profiles:

Spoiler:

I'm also confused on the Icon interactions as well. Do Rubric Marines just get more AP?

Snugiraffe wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The Night Lords trait was actually nerfed from its playtest version. No more +1 to advance and charge. We did get the +1 to wound in melee though.....against L5, not L6. So much for it working on loyalists.

Though that does mean that Raptors and – crucially – the new Possessed will get the +1 to wound against a lot of units, seeing as they bring a native -1 Ld on top of the trait. Also, do we know if the trait stacks? Its range has increased to 9", so it might not be that difficult to bring Ld8 units down to 5.
Possessed needing 4+ to wound against anything that's T6 to T9 sounds OK. Plus you can warp-mark their target for another +1 (do bonuses to wound rolls stack? they do, right?).

Now, off to ebay to buy some more of those Greater Possessed to fill in the gap until GW actually starts selling the new ones, lol.

Well I guess the good news is that it makes Raptors incredibly fluffy to run.

Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

probably, though it's possible that this is what they want the big bad from each factions power level to be again. Who know next edition may be back to hero hammer.

Boosykes wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

probably, though it's possible that this is what they want the big bad from each factions power level to be again. Who know next edition may be back to hero hammer.

Could be seeing a movement to AoS style herohammer where almost every army gets a big centerpiece character who can wreck house but costs a truckload of points.

I'm not even joking when I say I could write a better Codex than this. It couldn't even be accused of being biased because it would just add in options that have been stripped and that's pretty much it.

I have written a better codex than this.

Remember, if you don't like it, vote with your wallet and don't buy it. Same with any models whose rules you are disappointed with. Couple that with an email and/or letter detailing specifically what you are unhappy with. One has to go with the other. If you don't buy but don't say anything, GW won't know specifically what's annoying people and may implement changes that do nothing or which might even make things worse. If you write to them but still buy the product, your complaints are toothless and they will know that they can ignore you without suffering any consequences.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Boosykes wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

probably, though it's possible that this is what they want the big bad from each factions power level to be again. Who know next edition may be back to hero hammer.

Could be seeing a movement to AoS style herohammer where almost every army gets a big centerpiece character who can wreck house but costs a truckload of points.

Aren't we already there?

Avatar of Khaine and/or Ynnead, Ghazghul, Abaddon, Guilliman, Morvehnn Vahl, Cawl, etc. Not every faction has one of course, but not every faction has a big beasty in AoS either, but we're mighty close.

This whole codex... After seeing Night Lords only get their +1 to wound in melee and only on ld 5 or half-strength units... God that's awful.

You can't layer enough extra rules and re-rolls and junk to make this faction feel cohesive. The Tabletop Tactics review was good, but they glazed over the datasheets except for the Lord with Jump Pack. They're generally pretty positive, which is why I like them, and they do call out issues with balance, but Chef is very much more interested in the balance, less on individual unit options.

Well, here's to waiting another 2+ years for the next crappy codex.

drbored wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Boosykes wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

probably, though it's possible that this is what they want the big bad from each factions power level to be again. Who know next edition may be back to hero hammer.

Could be seeing a movement to AoS style herohammer where almost every army gets a big centerpiece character who can wreck house but costs a truckload of points.

Aren't we already there?

Hmmm, no not really. We're still not batting at god levels. We're close but not there.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

drbored wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Boosykes wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

probably, though it's possible that this is what they want the big bad from each factions power level to be again. Who know next edition may be back to hero hammer.

Could be seeing a movement to AoS style herohammer where almost every army gets a big centerpiece character who can wreck house but costs a truckload of points.

Aren't we already there?

Hmmm, no not really. We're still not batting at god levels. We're close but not there.

Fair enough. We'll get a few more primarchs down the road and maybe Tyranids will get an extra big beasty.

Oh, forgot to add Silent King to the list. That's pretty god-tier.

drbored wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

drbored wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Boosykes wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

probably, though it's possible that this is what they want the big bad from each factions power level to be again. Who know next edition may be back to hero hammer.

Could be seeing a movement to AoS style herohammer where almost every army gets a big centerpiece character who can wreck house but costs a truckload of points.

Aren't we already there?

Hmmm, no not really. We're still not batting at god levels. We're close but not there.

Fair enough. We'll get a few more primarchs down the road and maybe Tyranids will get an extra big beasty.

Oh, forgot to add Silent King to the list. That's pretty god-tier.

Maybe to beef Abbadon up to the same level he'll ride a 4 headed daemon engine shaped like a dragon too!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

drbored wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

drbored wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Boosykes wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Just realized you can heal Abba D3 with a MoP. He's definitely busted... And the nerfs are coming.

probably, though it's possible that this is what they want the big bad from each factions power level to be again. Who know next edition may be back to hero hammer.

Could be seeing a movement to AoS style herohammer where almost every army gets a big centerpiece character who can wreck house but costs a truckload of points.

Aren't we already there?

Hmmm, no not really. We're still not batting at god levels. We're close but not there.

Fair enough. We'll get a few more primarchs down the road and maybe Tyranids will get an extra big beasty.

Oh, forgot to add Silent King to the list. That's pretty god-tier.

Maybe to beef Abbadon up to the same level he'll ride a 4 headed daemon engine shaped like a dragon too!

As much as I know you're joking, I'm not against a giant dinobot mount...