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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Dynas wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
Well the mawlocs can get within an 1.1" so that is quite possible. i usually find knights are screened way out front and people leave them 7" away to avoid getting consolidated into.

It really comes down to the ravenors making the charge. Again this is theory, every game is different.


5.1x6.1" tho... the base is about 4-5" big who cares if you kill 1-2 guardsmen for 100pts


What point are you making here? Im not trying to be rude, im genuinely not sure? lol

My point is that since his screen is 7" away you should be able to slot in the Mawlocs behind his screen and hit his knight.


Miss read the 7" as 5" for some reason.

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Texas

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't get his point either.

My point was just that they should see you have Mawlocs and body block you with infantry to stop them coming in and doing that.


True. This is why we use devilgants to clear the screen hopefully.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Dynas wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't get his point either.

My point was just that they should see you have Mawlocs and body block you with infantry to stop them coming in and doing that.


True. This is why we use devilgants to clear the screen hopefully.


I agree with you on the devilgants, but I'm not sold on the tactic even after that. After taking 3 Mawlocs, a big unit of gaunts, a unit to deliver them (min Raveners w/deathspitters, I assume), and something to charge with (Raveners or Trygon) you don't have a lot of points to build an army with. You have put at least 800 points into this (790 with 30x gants, 2x min Raveners with no upgrades), and you are relying on a 9 inch charge. If you make the charge, your not going to actually hurt the Knight beyond the handful of mortals you get from the Mawlocs. Assuming the Knight can't kill a Mawloc in one turn of CC, you lock him up the turn you charge and one more turn.

Your best case here is to kill the screen turn 2, lock the Knight turn 3 and 4, and then what? Once he gets to shoot again he'll kill both your remaining Mawlocs, and you still have the rest of his army to deal with.

If you do it with a Trygon, you get a 8" charge instead, and might bracket him on the turn you charge, but you still don't get the kill. You also rely on the board being such that you can get 4 ovals into the correct position to lock him + charge, which isn't going to be guarenteed.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/22 22:06:40


 
   
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Tough Tyrant Guard






Just as a thought, but has anyone taken a second look at the Harpy post Chapter Approved? They dropped considerably from their old price (over 200 points to ~150 points) and their toolkit would work rather well with things that people are taking anyway.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






I play 2 Harpies time to time, you really need a Malanthrop/Venomthropes, without a natural -1 or invul they are way to easy to be killed off. B.c of this you need to build a list that utilizes that to the fullest. They IMO are not something to just throw into a list.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Thoughts on the new FAQ? (and new Ynnari)

Need to organize my thoughts for a bit, but my first impression is:

No more double shooting reapers.
No more doomed/guided dissie cannons.
No more castellans around (or at least much less).
.
.
.
Can we finally make use of our reduced cost beasts?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Thoughts on the new FAQ? (and new Ynnari)

Need to organize my thoughts for a bit, but my first impression is:

No more double shooting reapers.
No more doomed/guided dissie cannons.
No more castellans around (or at least much less).
.
.
.
Can we finally make use of our reduced cost beasts?


First though, no, because the things that are going to surge into the gap created by this (IG Armored Company, Tau) still eat them for lunch.

Second thought, we can take most of those builds.

So....maybe? Depending on how it all shakes out? The MC builds have been sitting at bottom of second tier, might be enough to save them.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




New to tyranids. Currently play heavy mech/armoured IG.

What is the most competitive way of drowning my opponent in nid bodies? 200+ models minimum.

I was thinking something like a hormagaunt heavy hydra battalion mixed with a genestealer kraken battalion. Top off with a mix of Malanthrope/Neurothrope/Venomthropes.



   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So competative horde is tricky, because the most common competitive environment (ITC) incentivizes killing units. The big horde builds struggle to kill enough units to do well in ITC, because you are giving up killyness for durability. You can also expect to have time trouble, particularly in games played on chess clocks.

That said. 3 Malenthropes and a Neurothrope + naked Hormagants in Leviathan gives you 298 Hormies in two battalions, at -1 to hit and 6++.

If you want to be more killy, 90 Genestealers + Broodlord + Malenthrope leaves you room for the other two Malenthropes and 150 Hormagants. The 'stealers are more dangerous as a Kraken battalion, but synergize better as Leviathan.

I would personally run the Kraken + Leviathan version.
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






Asymmetric wrote:
New to tyranids. Currently play heavy mech/armoured IG.

What is the most competitive way of drowning my opponent in nid bodies? 200+ models minimum.

I was thinking something like a hormagaunt heavy hydra battalion mixed with a genestealer kraken battalion. Top off with a mix of Malanthrope/Neurothrope/Venomthropes.


Generally when I play Hydra I try to build everything in 120 point blocks to leverage their enhanced version of Endless Swarm and generally leave enough points aside for 1-2 respawns. Going for pure swarm means this isn't as problematic as it is with a mixed army. The foe is going to be hard pressed to table you before you can access your reinforcement points. Zoanthropes are a good option for non-character synapse nodes since they offer wide coverage and are most unappealing targets due to their 3++ and relatively low offensive capabilities. Venomthropes are actually fairly good combat units with Hydra since they already reroll all failed wound rolls and like being taken in larger units anyway for the extended spore cloud. They also offer a bit of CP regeneration potential as well if you can pick off a weak support character with them.

I'd generally not advise mixing Hive Fleets with Hydra. They already want to leave some points aside to use their stratagem (the repositioning aspect is the main benefit here) and a good player will focus on the supporting fleet to deny the ability to re-deploy destroyed units. Hydra also really wants large units to increase the likelihood of triggering their adaptation ability, so points invested in another fleet and its support infrastructure are points not going into using Hydra's adaptation to its fullest extent.
   
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Asymmetric wrote:
New to tyranids. Currently play heavy mech/armoured IG.

What is the most competitive way of drowning my opponent in nid bodies? 200+ models minimum.

I was thinking something like a hormagaunt heavy hydra battalion mixed with a genestealer kraken battalion. Top off with a mix of Malanthrope/Neurothrope/Venomthropes.





As already mentioned, we need to know the ruleset used in your area. Do you play canon 40K, ITC or ETC in your area?

Making an horde list is completely different depending on the ruleset used.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Spoletta wrote:
Asymmetric wrote:
New to tyranids. Currently play heavy mech/armoured IG.

What is the most competitive way of drowning my opponent in nid bodies? 200+ models minimum.

I was thinking something like a hormagaunt heavy hydra battalion mixed with a genestealer kraken battalion. Top off with a mix of Malanthrope/Neurothrope/Venomthropes.





As already mentioned, we need to know the ruleset used in your area. Do you play canon 40K, ITC or ETC in your area?

Making an horde list is completely different depending on the ruleset used.


UK - Which tends towards straight vanilla 40k due to the firm grip GW has here.
   
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Quick question, is the pyrovore still bad?

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






They are very cheap now, 25pt for a HF flamer Warrior with a power weapon, the thing tho, its a 10" HF, so you can DS and still shoot. If Lictor strat, or Jormungandr was a bit better you would for sure see them more.

You can play them, and most likely could even do well (for nids) with a couple in your list, especially vs GSC and Orks. They are just to easy to be killed IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 01:56:07


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Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Thanks!

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Asymmetric wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Asymmetric wrote:
New to tyranids. Currently play heavy mech/armoured IG.

What is the most competitive way of drowning my opponent in nid bodies? 200+ models minimum.

I was thinking something like a hormagaunt heavy hydra battalion mixed with a genestealer kraken battalion. Top off with a mix of Malanthrope/Neurothrope/Venomthropes.





As already mentioned, we need to know the ruleset used in your area. Do you play canon 40K, ITC or ETC in your area?

Making an horde list is completely different depending on the ruleset used.


UK - Which tends towards straight vanilla 40k due to the firm grip GW has here.


I honestly like it that way (All tournaments are ITC around me, i dont like ITC) For a horde list that could be Eternal or Maelstrom,you'll still want Genestealers (Tho with that said, I have seen 250 body lists work without Genestealers, but this was before the Neurothrope and Malanthrope points chance) , they are to good not to use, Ayou'll want some speed and shooting, a mix of Hgants and Tgants will be good, with Hgants in front and Tgants sitting back with some shooting it would work.

You'll want Neurothropes and 1 Malanthrope, 2 Battalions is enough with 4 HQ's.

Horde lists for nids has 2 problems, anti-tank, anti-horde, you can get away with anti-tank with numbers (stop knights, walkers, etc.. from moving out of their zone, you stop their movements you win the game) but anti-horde is a proble, thats why i would still take Genestealers, they'll eat up a couple horde units and get you snow balling.

Horde nids works b.c of numbers, speed, and no moral checks, you need to learn all the ways you can add movements to your units, once you know how to lock down the table and stop DSing and movement it becomes easy to win, but you'll never feel strong, no big damaging units other than genestealers.

Finally, an odd option but does work, DSing unit, Rippers or Goyles, Rippers are better IMO, but they dont have the footprint as Goyles, and you need the footprint, having DSing units means even more speed, turn 2 you can place them right where you need them, if you are taking RIppers 1x9 is a large foot print, goyles i would only take 1x20.

Something like

Battalion Kraken
Neurothrope
Neurothrope
Genestealers x20
H-gants x30
T-gants x30
T-gants x30
Rippers x9

Battalion Kraken
Neurothrope
Malanthrope
Genestealers x20
H-gants x30
T-gants x30
T-gants x30
Rippers x9

Thats 242 models with 130pts left over, so you have room to put something else in, if you feel you need some Anti-tank, take some models out and put in Hiveguard or a Broodlord or 2, you can already fit 3 Hiveguard, remove another 150pts and you can have 6 Hive guard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 02:14:58


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






You could also do this:


Spoiler:
+++ horde (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [101 PL, 13CP, 2,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP

Hive Fleet: Leviathan

+ HQ +

Broodlord: Power: The Horror

Broodlord: Power: Psychic Scream, The Ymgarl Factor, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted

Malanthropes: Warlord
. 2x Malanthrope

+ Troops +

Termagants
. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer
. 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants
. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer
. 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants
. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer
. 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Fast Attack +

Meiotic Spores: 8x Meiotic Spore

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP

Detachment CP

Hive Fleet: Leviathan

+ HQ +

Neurothrope: Power: The Horror

Neurothrope: Power: Catalyst

Neurothrope: Power: Catalyst

+ Troops +

Termagants
. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer
. 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants
. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer
. 15x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants
. 14x Termagant (Devourer): 14x Devourer
. 16x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)





180 termagaunts half of which actually can hurt stuff. Everyone can be -1 to hit with a 6+++. you have 5 psychers with redundant powers so no easy choice for assasins to go after and 2 of those psychers move fast and can kill most things in melee. Make the most out of your malanthropes. If you can somehow get their prey adaption off the whole army gets alot more scary.


Note, as the meiotic spores arent kraken, they dont get to double their advance or get reliable advance rolls, but since they got the buff of starting only 9" away instead of 12" and you can still metabolic overdrive to move twice they should still do what they are supposed to do. They will force your opponent to screen his high damage units or they will wreck them. Go after things that can take out your characters, or kill something that can put out 20+ shots with them (to keep your hordes alive). Remember they do 15.5 mortal wounds on average but that can swing from 0-48 mortal wounds if the dice so choose.

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Been Around the Block




So I am building up my first Tyranids army. Basing around the classic Kraken genestealer lists as I want the army to be a learning tool for competitive gaming.

I've currently got a magnetised Swarmlord/Flyrant, 40 genestealers, Brood lord, 9 ripper bases, 30 Terms and 3 Hive Guard. So sitting around 1250 points.

Are these good next steps?
- 3 more hive gaurd
- another Flyrant (or two?)
- and then not sure after that? Neurothropes? Venomthropes? Malanthrope? More stealers? Biovores?

Also how do you keep synapse to your hive gaurd (really just stopping instinctive behaviour)? Espically as I've seen lists with no 'baby-sitting' Neuro's or Tyranid Primes. I haven't played them yet so not sure if it's even an issue?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/16 05:53:15


 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut





Netherlands

I am slowly building a Tyranid army (only of the models I like, which is mostly CC). Now I have some Raveners and came across the Red Terror. Is it worthwhile to field a couple of units of Raveners accompanied by the Red Terror? How many Raveners is best and should I use any other units to accompany them?

   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






MaxB wrote:So I am building up my first Tyranids army. Basing around the classic Kraken genestealer lists as I want the army to be a learning tool for competitive gaming.

I've currently got a magnetised Swarmlord/Flyrant, 40 genestealers, Brood lord, 9 ripper bases, 30 Terms and 3 Hive Guard. So sitting around 1250 points.

Are these good next steps?
- 3 more hive gaurd
- another Flyrant (or two?)
- and then not sure after that? Neurothropes? Venomthropes? Malanthrope? More stealers? Biovores?

Also how do you keep synapse to your hive gaurd (really just stopping instinctive behaviour)? Espically as I've seen lists with no 'baby-sitting' Neuro's or Tyranid Primes. I haven't played them yet so not sure if it's even an issue?


Those next steps should be fine. You probably will want to prioritize shrouding after that. I personally prefer Venomthropes for front-line coverage since they offer a bigger bubble and bring a bit of combat capability with them. Malanthropes are better for backfield shrouding, since they will generally be babysitting gunbeasts which need synapse coverage and at the rear it is harder for the opponent to clear away units in order to expose them for shooting.

Generally I keep a brood of Warriors around my Hiveguard for synapse and melee assistance if someone tries to tie them up. In your case you could probably just take Dominion on one of your Hive Tyrants and use that to switch off instinctive behavior once the synaptic leash has been exceeded.

Singleton Mosby wrote:I am slowly building a Tyranid army (only of the models I like, which is mostly CC). Now I have some Raveners and came across the Red Terror. Is it worthwhile to field a couple of units of Raveners accompanied by the Red Terror? How many Raveners is best and should I use any other units to accompany them?


Raveners are generally used with Jormungandr to offer drop points for units set-up in the tunnel network. Any of the other T4 infantry make good tunnel mates, though I've generally had best success with a small Venomthrope Brood and either 'stealers or a gunbeast brood of some sort (Shockguard, Warriors, Termagantsd, Pyrovore). By themselves I've generally found Raveners to do best against light infantry due to the high volume of attacks they bring (both in melee and shooting if given Spinefists). You basically want them to bully shooting units and avoid combat with anything that can hit back effectively, using their speed to set up favorable engagements and keep them out of sight as much as possible.

I generally go with 2 units of 6 when I bring them. It gives them a fairly large footprint for dropping other units and gives them enough bodies that they can threaten larger squads of infantry more effectively.
   
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Texas

So they nerfed Paroxysm. Now apparently you can still spend 2 CP to counter attack with a unit, even if its been targeted by Paroxysm.

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Fresh-Faced New User




Looking at maybe starting a Tyranids army in the near future, since they encompass a lot of what I like from a 40k army (took 3 armies for me to realize that).

I'm starting with a 500 point build for financial purposes. I know I want a Broodlord and 16 Genestealers to start, which brings me to 307 points. What would round out a solid 500 point force? I was thinking a Carnifex with 2 Deathspitters and a Heavy Venom Cannon for longish range support and a squad of 12 Termagants with an even split of Devourers and Fleshborers for a bit of closer range shooting.

My above plan would put me at just under 500 points. Is that a good foundation for a larger army, or should I consider something else as I'm starting out?
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





 Dynas wrote:
So they nerfed Paroxysm. Now apparently you can still spend 2 CP to counter attack with a unit, even if its been targeted by Paroxysm.



Can't say I really give a gak as it was already our last power and I never used

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Lictor



oromocto

ronjamin1022 wrote:
Looking at maybe starting a Tyranids army in the near future, since they encompass a lot of what I like from a 40k army (took 3 armies for me to realize that).

I'm starting with a 500 point build for financial purposes. I know I want a Broodlord and 16 Genestealers to start, which brings me to 307 points. What would round out a solid 500 point force? I was thinking a Carnifex with 2 Deathspitters and a Heavy Venom Cannon for longish range support and a squad of 12 Termagants with an even split of Devourers and Fleshborers for a bit of closer range shooting.

My above plan would put me at just under 500 points. Is that a good foundation for a larger army, or should I consider something else as I'm starting out?


I would suggest if you want some ranged I'd go with a nerothrope and a brood of 3 Hive guard(soon to be 6 when you want to expand above 500). It's expensive $ wise but gives you an additional HQ/Synapse as well as the best shooting unit we have.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Timeshadow wrote:
ronjamin1022 wrote:
Looking at maybe starting a Tyranids army in the near future, since they encompass a lot of what I like from a 40k army (took 3 armies for me to realize that).

I'm starting with a 500 point build for financial purposes. I know I want a Broodlord and 16 Genestealers to start, which brings me to 307 points. What would round out a solid 500 point force? I was thinking a Carnifex with 2 Deathspitters and a Heavy Venom Cannon for longish range support and a squad of 12 Termagants with an even split of Devourers and Fleshborers for a bit of closer range shooting.

My above plan would put me at just under 500 points. Is that a good foundation for a larger army, or should I consider something else as I'm starting out?


I would suggest if you want some ranged I'd go with a nerothrope and a brood of 3 Hive guard(soon to be 6 when you want to expand above 500). It's expensive $ wise but gives you an additional HQ/Synapse as well as the best shooting unit we have.


A Neurothrope or two and 6 Hive Guard are definitely in my long term plans, but how would I squeeze a Neurothrope and 3 Hive Guard into 500 points? My newer plan was to bring a Broodlord, 16 Genestealers, and 24 Devourer Termagants. I could pretty much wipe any troops off the board, but I'd have to lock the heavy stuff in melee, as I know most people will bring at least one Dreadnought-type model in small games (or Guard with 2 Leman Russ).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Portland,OR

Are you handy with magnets? If so a Tervigon/ Tyrannofex could be a good project, In a small game a Tervigon is a good HQ that can refresh units of Termigants. You could also go "counter-meta" by looking at Ole one eye A Carnifex could be your version of a Dreadnot
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




A couple of things from the latest errata (29th May 2019)...

First Paroxysm no longer stops people using the interrupt stratagem to fight.

Spoiler:
Q: If a unit is affected by a rule that forces it to fight after all
other units able to fight have done so, such as the effects of the
Paroxysm psychic power, the Vexator Mask or the Armour of
Russ, can it still be affected by the Counter-Offensive Stratagem?
A: Yes, the Counter Offensive Stratagem allows a unit to
fight outside of the normal fight order (i.e. the Stratagem
does not give a unit the ability to fight first in the Fight
phase, it simply instructs you to pick a unit and fight with
it next).


And no more Oppurtunistic Advance for a unit affected by Swarmlord's Hive Commander. Permission to do this has been removed from Tyranids errata so now this from the Rule Book errata...

Spoiler:
Q: When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move,
shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power)
outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly
mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the
turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it
were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during
that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take
effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks?
A: With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g.
abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would
apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking
place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem
specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then
it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a
Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting
phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were
the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ,
Overwatch attacks are not considered to be attacks made
as if it were your Shooting phase.


So this just takes 1-6" off the total threat range from stealers/swarmlord I believe?
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




Auckland, NZ

Yeah, it drops you from being able to move up to 40" then charge, to being able to move up to 34" and then charge. I really don't think that's a big deal. I've never had a game where I needed that extra 6".

I'm much more bothered by the paroxysm nerf. That makes fighting other close combat armies much harder. Being able to shut down a units ability to use counter offensive was invaluable vs orks in particular.

The other nerf is that using a 'fight twice' stratagem to pile into a new enemy unit now allows that unit to fight back. That was quite a handy trick for keeping your genestealers safe, now made a bit more risky.
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




Interesting on the fight twice thing - I think I was playing it like that anyway haha.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




MaxB wrote:
Interesting on the fight twice thing - I think I was playing it like that anyway haha.


I always played it that way, did anything change?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/04 13:07:18


 
   
 
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