Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm getting more and more annoyed with the bad and impossible design of vehicles in 40 k. One of the worst examples is the IG Chimera. If it were real it would become immovable once it had sunk 2 inches into to the ground. Even WW1 tanks were better designed. Don't even get me started on the Russ. The size of the guns and shape of the body means it would hold about two rounds and hardly any crew. Bane blades etc seem to have thought in them but the smaller stuff: is just crappy and once you start to think about it, it only gets worse. Come on GW time to upgrade the realism to is what otherwise a great game and great fluff. There I feel better.

I really do not care about that.
You can imagine chimera having a badass engine, pushing the thing through whatever.
You can imagine that the LRBT cannon shells have especially compact casing.

One thing I am not that happy about though, is the fact that the warp portal generator in every rhino is very well hidden.
Yeah, warp portal. How else could you put 10 MARINES AND ALL THEIR GEAR in this tiny shoecase with tracks.

If you want realism you are playing the wrong game dude lol

The tanks for this game are not to scale with the rest of the models. Even the space marines are not to scale with other armies, look at a SM and an IG model. Pretty much the same size...If you don't like the model, you can always fix it yourself by modeling it how you wish. If GW made the tanks to scale with the rest of the model line, a land raider would be huge! And so would a russ.

Seb wrote:I really do not care about that.
You can imagine chimera having a badass engine, pushing the thing through whatever.
You can imagine that the LRBT cannon shells have especially compact casing.

One thing I am not that happy about though, is the fact that the warp portal generator in every rhino is very well hidden.
Yeah, warp portal. How else could you put 10 MARINES AND ALL THEIR GEAR in this tiny shoecase with tracks.

No engine in the world can push a grounded vehicle through the ground!!! Warp portal is spot on. Really frustrating. Rhinos should be bigger the marines don't even fit in the hatch. Lol.

I think I would agree with the two above posts.

You are talking about a game with space elves, half animal-half plant warrior aliens who can make guns work by their collective psychic presence, Genetically engineered super-human warriors and alien robots armed with tesla coils, and you're worried about the fact that the unrealistic shape of the tanks.

Sci-fi mini games sell minis by 'rule of cool', it's more important that the Russ/Chimera look bad-ass than look like they would actually work.

However, that's not to say that if you so choose, you can model your tanks to be as feasibly realistic as you like, so long as they are about the same height, width and depth as a Russ/Chimera your opponents aren't really going to complain.

EmperorsChampion wrote:The tanks for this game are not to scale with the rest of the models. Even the space marines are not to scale with other armies, look at a SM and an IG model. Pretty much the same size...If you don't like the model, you can always fix it yourself by modeling it how you wish. If GW made the tanks to scale with the rest of the model line, a land raider would be huge! And so would a russ.

I agree about the size but its basic physics I'm talking about. Its just lazy to trow out bad designs. Forge world don't.

I have to agree with that and I thought about these things for quite some time... Oh well not like they are gonna do anything about it.

Eydude1 wrote:I have to agree with that and I thought about these things for quite some time... Oh well not like they are gonna do anything about it.

Eydude Im going to have to convert my own, its just frustrating that a company like this don't put just a little more thought into it.

Leigen_Zero wrote:I think I would agree with the two above posts.

You are talking about a game with space elves, half animal-half plant warrior aliens who can make guns work by their collective psychic presence, Genetically engineered super-human warriors and alien robots armed with tesla coils, and you're worried about the fact that the unrealistic shape of the tanks.

Sci-fi mini games sell minis by 'rule of cool', it's more important that the Russ/Chimera look bad-ass than look like they would actually work.

However, that's not to say that if you so choose, you can model your tanks to be as feasibly realistic as you like, so long as they are about the same height, width and depth as a Russ/Chimera your opponents aren't really going to complain.

QFT. End of story.

If you want realism you are playing the wrong game dude lol

How can you rant about realism? You want a rhino so to scale to fit 10 marines? Games would suck, your models would be 50% of the damn table. This is a sci-fi fantasy space aged game 40,000 years in the future. Realism cannot even be approached, for all you know the metal the chimera is made of is paper thin, weightless because the atoms in the metallic structure were re-arranged by mechanicists of old. But then again this is dakkadakka, where its 80/20 split of ranting, and actual discussion.

Leigen_Zero wrote:I think I would agree with the two above posts.

You are talking about a game with space elves, half animal-half plant warrior aliens who can make guns work by their collective psychic presence, Genetically engineered super-human warriors and alien robots armed with tesla coils, and you're worried about the fact that the unrealistic shape of the tanks.

Sci-fi mini games sell minis by 'rule of cool', it's more important that the Russ/Chimera look bad-ass than look like they would actually work.

However, that's not to say that if you so choose, you can model your tanks to be as feasibly realistic as you like, so long as they are about the same height, width and depth as a Russ/Chimera your opponents aren't really going to complain.

Thx for your points but I really don't get the ' its sci fi' so it ain't gottalook right argument. The models they are bringing out go through a design stage. At this point it would be good if someone said hold on that's not going to work. If you read the forge world armour collection the vehicles are really well thought out and are 'badass' but realistic. But your right I'm going to convert my own vehicles and the Ill be happy. I may even start a blog about it.

Scale is not GW's forte. It never was and never will be. They just makes things to look cool/playable/fun to paint, not realistically scaled

40k has always been heroic scale. It's a conscious decision on behalf of the game designers. Vehicles are too small relatively (so they don't take up the whole board), Guardsmen and Space Marines are approximately the same height, model's heads and hands are exaggerated in size, weapons are exaggerated in size etc etc.

As for the design of the vehicles, they're designed to look cool, not be practical. Just look at the barrel size on the Leman Russ. There's no way that wouldn't just blow the turret clean off with the recoil!

decoste007xt wrote:

If you want realism you are playing the wrong game dude lol

How can you rant about realism? You want a rhino so to scale to fit 10 marines? Games would suck, your models would be 50% of the damn table. This is a sci-fi fantasy space aged game 40,000 years in the future. Realism cannot even be approached, for all you know the metal the chimera is made of is paper thin, weightless because the atoms in the metallic structure were re-arranged by mechanicists of old. But then again this is dakkadakka, where its 80/20 split of ranting, and actual discussion.

The use of the word Rant in the title was tongue in cheek and yes you can have realistic looking vehicles. Just because its sci fi does not mean it has to look crap. Someone else mention the rhino, size is not my main concern bad design is.

Leigen_Zero wrote:I think I would agree with the two above posts.

You are talking about a game with space elves, half animal-half plant warrior aliens who can make guns work by their collective psychic presence, Genetically engineered super-human warriors and alien robots armed with tesla coils, and you're worried about the fact that the unrealistic shape of the tanks.

Sci-fi mini games sell minis by 'rule of cool', it's more important that the Russ/Chimera look bad-ass than look like they would actually work.

However, that's not to say that if you so choose, you can model your tanks to be as feasibly realistic as you like, so long as they are about the same height, width and depth as a Russ/Chimera your opponents aren't really going to complain.

Just because it is a sci fi game doesn't mean that all conventional thought into physics and at least some semblance of realism should be ignored. Even so, I don't care honeslty.

How else can you hit them with your sword?


The very existance of melee unit in 40k is an aboration given the potency of ranged weapons.

Testify wrote:How else can you hit them with your sword?


The very existance of melee unit in 40k is an aboration given the potency of ranged weapons.

Now that is funny. Lol.

I have always said the cannon on a LM was a little to big. But I have very few issues with scale. It would be nice if Marines did look bigger next to IG, but then Bolters in the fluff are these huge monsters of a gun, fit for a Marine..but when I started playing IG you could pass them off to Sgts and even the Sisters have Bolters, which are all the same size as the Marine ones.
My old school Rhinos are like soup cans next to every other tank (even the transports that holod smaller "men") and when next to newer Rhinos look even more out of place. Just like the guns are them look way out of line, LOL But then I like the older Rhinos more anyway, just because it confuses some people.

Two points.

The tanks aren't to scale. You try getting ten marine models inside of a rhino or sixteen into a landraider.

Also, when playing a game with superhuman giants carrying what are effectivly rapid fire grenade launchers and shooting them at giant space lizards from another galaxy, realism arguments are invalid.

RaptorsTallon wrote:Two points.

The tanks aren't to scale. You try getting ten marine models inside of a rhino or sixteen into a landraider.

Also, when playing a game with superhuman giants carrying what are effectivly rapid fire grenade launchers and shooting them at giant space lizards from another galaxy, realism arguments are invalid.

Sure. I am willing to bet 99.9% of everyone on here knows it's a game, and it's SiFi. Doesnt change the fact all good SiFi has some sort of base in being real. Star Trek came up with some lame reason why the transporter works, and doest scatter you all over the place. I know watching Rambo, that there is no way he has the M60 belt tossed over his arm and fires it with one hand...but when he takes a bullet, he bleeds, and he is not getting into a Ford Pinto and playing chicken with a tank.

It's fine you dont care about the little things that give it a little more touch of being real, and make it a little more fun for other people...and I am sure there are a lot of people who never read the fluff, and just go off of the rules, because they care less about the fluff. Some people like the backstory and the way things fit together.

O.K. so for someone who enjoys the fluff almost as much as I enjoy the game, actually I enjoy the fluff more than the game since I started reading the books and that's what got me into playing, I have to say I also get what the OP is stating but I also get that if you make all the models to scale your playing space would be a floor mat about 16' X 24' or even 30' cause the models would be huge. Also for the realism aspect I think that GW does a pretty good job of getting a lot of detail into their models and yes the Tanks look a bit squatish but overall I like the look of them.

Some one need to do a quick poll of who plays 40k for realism?? whos with me??

Ciaphas wrote:I'm getting more and more annoyed with the bad and impossible design of vehicles in 40 k. One of the worst examples is the IG Chimera. If it were real it would become immovable once it had sunk 2 inches into to the ground.

I disagree, ground pressure is based on force over area right? Well actually the ground pressure of a modern 60 ton MBT is hell of a lot less than a woman in stilleto heels. Seriously that's why tracked vehicles are great across country, even on chewed up or sodden ground (not marsh land). Just to illustrate ground pressures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure

Hovercraft: 0.7 kPa (0.1 psi)
Human on Snowshoes: 3.5 kPa (0.5 psi)
Rubber-tracked ATV: 5.165 kPa (0.75 psi)
Diedrich D-50 - T2 Drilling rig: 26.2 kPa (3.8 psi)
Human male (1.8 meter tall, medium build): 55 kPa (8 psi)
M1 Abrams tank: 103 kPa (15 psi)
1993 Toyota 4Runner / Hilux Surf: 170 kPa (25 psi)
Adult horse (550 kg, 1250 lb): 170 kPa (25 psi)
Passenger car: 205 kPa (30 psi)
Wheeled ATV: 240 kPa (35 psi)
Mountain bicycle: 245 kPa (40 psi)
Racing bicycle: 620 kPa (90 psi)

Note: Pressures for Man and Horse are for standing still. A walking human will exert more than double his standing pressure. A galloping horse will exert up to 3.5 MPa (500 psi). The ground pressure for a pneumatic tire is roughly equal to its inflation pressure.

Anyway it's all mute, because this is 40k, where Daemons pop out of nowhere and rape you. So actually what the hell does realism have to do with it?

You want more realism play "Flames of War", it's a great game.

All vehicles in 40k have a warp portal inside that holds all the stuff.

Problem solved.

mwnciboo wrote:
Anyway it's all mute, because this is 40k, where Daemons pop out of nowhere and rape you. So actually what the hell does realism have to do with it?

I believe the word you're looking for is "moot".

Moot = Mute both work , as it's quiet time Never really understood Moot because it's entymology means "meeting". It's a Meeting point?

Chimera unrealistic?

really?

Yeah, the Chimera is perhaps a direct translation of most modern IFVs in all respects(except the multi-laser of course)


LRBT models are out of scale with themselves. In artwork you will notice the turret is large in comparison to the barrel and the entire tank hull is longer and wider.

Formosa wrote:Chimera unrealistic?

really?

Are you serious?
The chimera has overlaid tracks. The outsider armoured body of the vehicle is almost the same depth as the track. The tank you show has normal running gear and something called ' ground clearance' which means it can sink into.the ground and not ground itself. Something that was fixed in 1915 at the tank trials before actually using tanks in 1918. And would everyone stop saying because its a game and its SCI FI it does not have to be realistic! Listen I'm not trying to change peoples minds or have a go at GW but I was intrested in peoples thoughts as to why the vehicals are so poorly thought out. Not so much the scale issue which I get, but the fact that the physics of the vehicals looks do wrong. And yeas I love the fluff and the realism of the books most of which I've read. The fluff and modelling is to me the best part of the hobby.

I've always wondered where the engine on a Chimera was.