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I am looking to start a new army, for when rolling face with IG Aircav gets boring (It doesn't.). But when and if it does, I'd like to have another army to play, so I've decided I need more cheese. I need the Grey Knights. That said, I am now faced with a decision.

Do I run the classic, cheesy Draigowing?

Or the less traveled, still cheesy Crowe Purifier Spam?

I will be playing largely 1000-1500 point games, and wouldn't mind some armor in there either, a Land Raider Crusader for the latter, a Storm Raven or two for the former.

My questions for you, dakka, are:

How cheesy are the two, and which is more fun?

Thank you kindly,
-Captain

Hey, bud.

As a Thousand Sons player, I would do better against the Draigowing. The ability to shut down an entire expensive unit with one 70pt sorcerer in a squad (hallucination, for example), is pretty brutal.

Having more units that are cheap (Yes.... Purifiers are super cheap, I dont care what people say) would give you more flexibility and I believe that you would probably have more fun because of the vehicles, being a Guard player.

Draigowing would be easier on your wallet.

Oops, didnt see the last part of your post. Cheese? Probably purifiers because they have the benefit of vehicles in addition to troops and this edition is still about shooting. Draigowing is easier for me to fight than a Crowe list, so my idea of "fun" may be different than yours!

Hope this helps give you something to consider, my friend.

You want fun, yet you want cheese?

Cheese =/= Fun




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Draigowing doesn't scale down well.

Cheese might be fun....if you happen to be TFG...

To clear things up, I am not necessarily TFG, but I do take great pride in winning, and maximizing the effectiveness in my lists. If that is TFG/WAAC for you, then so be it, but a little cheese never hurt anyone. Losing is less fun than some cheese here and there.

Are Grey Knights still cheesy in 6th? I'm not so sure...

Also, how high do the points need to be for Draigowing to be well-scaled?

Slagmar wrote:Are Grey Knights still cheesy in 6th? I'm not so sure...[/quote
This. GK got nerfed pretty hard. They're still good but not infuriatingly cheesy. You're probably going to want to go for Purifiers with Inquisitorial Henchmen.

Dr. What wrote:You want fun, yet you want cheese?

Cheese =/= Fun

That is completely false.

Some people have this rediclous notion that a cheesy list can't be a fun list. Its not true.

dragio wing took a bunch of hits even with 2+ saves getting better

first wound allocation is different, so you can't hide the wounded pallies as well.

second fearless wounds are gone, so now 30 boyz can tarpit a draigo star for a few rounds of combat, while other boyz grab objectives

Third, half as many kill point missions means these guys win less games

Fourth, while pallies 2+ saves got better, Draigo wing doesnt have much to take out 2+ saves. TH/SS termies will rock them. Hell, even Tactical terminators will do well.

Fifth, the change to rapid fire means more units can dakka pallies. Dakka and plasma, you might have to take that apothacary to help you survive.

Sixth, newcrons. With all those warsythes, weaves and MSS running around you might find your pallystar widdled down easily.

You want cheese take triple storm ravens an watch your opponents miss a lot, its a sick twisted kind of enjoyment.

I've noticed that you seem to like aged cheese. The cave-ripened chèvre that you're talking about has actually spoiled since fifth edition.

The new tangy buffalo mozzarella is warding stave spam.

junk wrote:I've noticed that you seem to like aged cheese. The cave-ripened chèvre that you're talking about has actually spoiled since fifth edition.

The new tangy buffalo mozzarella is warding stave spam.

I can't help but agree with both the advice and the delivery in keeping with the metaphor.

All I can really say is this: if you're planning on running a Draigowing in 6th, pray you never play against a Necron army. You will not have a good time, but at least the game will be very, very short.

azazel the cat wrote:

junk wrote:I've noticed that you seem to like aged cheese. The cave-ripened chèvre that you're talking about has actually spoiled since fifth edition.

The new tangy buffalo mozzarella is warding stave spam.

I can't help but agree with both the advice and the delivery in keeping with the metaphor.

All I can really say is this: if you're planning on running a Draigowing in 6th, pray you never play against a Necron army. You will not have a good time, but at least the game will be very, very short.

It's really no different from playing Draigowing against DE, except now there is a chance the DE have stealth and shrounding from the night fighting.

Well, Draigowing is not as strong as it was in the 5th. But if you can ally them with support units, it will still be decent.
Paladins are better used to secure an area than sending them straight into cc (Termies could be used here). So if you manage to let them deep striking behind enemy lines or close to the enemy front ranks at a flank, they will attract a lot of attention. Note that deep striking is less risky these days.

I'm not familiar with the GK rules, but if I was going to give advice, I'd say Purifier Spam.

I have both and my purifier army is much better than the draigowing. And purifiers are cheap for wat they do. also at 1500 pts i have around 70 ish models on the field

I just want to make sure that everyone in this discussion knows that paladins are all characters (and thus can abuse Look out, Sir!) and all have two wounds.

In terms of survivibility, they got kind of insane.

So if you are face-tanking a unit with Draigo, he takes the shots, if he fails his save, he then passes his Look out sir on to a model in the unit within 6". Please note that there are no additional restrictions on which model. So that wound will always go to an unwounded paladin. Even in units without ICs, each paladin has a 4+ look out sir chance.

In terms of offense, each ten man paladin unit has 4 psycannons that each have precision shot. A pretty good answer to your opponents attempts at abusing look out sir or other wound allocation shenanigans.

It is fair to say that they don't do well against 2+ armor. Equivalent points in thunderhammer terminators do very well against them. Although those equivalent points in THSS will have to all crash in simultaneously, as the spectacular overwatch that a 10 man pally squad unleashes followed by volume of attacks at initiative 4 wil wipe out 5 THSS before they can cause any real damage.

With that perspective, I'd answer the OP by saying that you should pick one or the other. They both work, but are extremely different. The old 6 dread and purifier list still works fine, you just need to make sure that you keep your list as a very disciplined MSU army. Some of these deathstars are so good and abuse wound allocation so well, that you can't have any juicy units hanging out that are trying to have their cake and eat it too (the elusive close combat and shooty hybrid unit)

The MSU version has less good and bad matchups, so i'd call it less "swingy"

hope that helps.

Don't forget that as every paladin is a character, every 6 to hit is a precission shot, and you can asign the wound.

I think people are also under estimating Coteaz Henchmen armies these days. 3 Henchmen with Plasma, weaponsmith, and a few bolter guys in a chimera can be pretty rough especially with an Inquisitor that took divination. Not to mention all in total such a unit is cheaper than a unit of purifiers in a rhino. I havent used Henchmen yet but 6th has peaked my interest towards them.

I'm using henchmen every match. The jokaeros give me the anti tank I need. But I don't take plasma cannons and rifles because I'm very unlucky and get a lot of 1's on the plasmas.

Well... Gks come in...

Cheddar
Brie
Munster
Motzerella
*goes on*

Dont forget the Velveta and Cheeze Whiz.
If you have to rely on cheese to win, and winning is what makes you happy, i guess thats your issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B3KBuQHHKx0

Somebody had to do it

Grey Templar wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B3KBuQHHKx0

Somebody had to do it

I've watched it, now I can't unwatch it.

In all honesty, the great cheese has moved on. If you just want to win, go necrons. Best cheese currently. Aged some 1000k years! (also incredibly good with almost all their options)

Indeed, I feel like the GK codex has about as much cheese as was in the shop. Plenty of cheese was talked about and complained over, but when all was said and done there was no cheese at all.

Dont forget the goat cheese, feta cheese and the head cheese.

sennacherib wrote:Dont forget the goat cheese, feta cheese and the head cheese.

the head cheese is a lie! it's not even a cheese!

Only on dakka dakka can you go from a tactical analysis of different army build to discussing cheese lol