Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2012/07/28 13:43:00
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
These aint much, heck they dont even have a site up! But in case someone here is interested...
The info here is from a TMP post, someone's first foray into plastic miniatures
I thought I would like to share some of what I have been working on for way too long. I have been working towards multi-part plastic figures for over a year now. I decided to start with 13th century English Knights / Crusaders. Here are some photos of some of the test pieces.
I am working on getting the production run worked out, so hopefully these will be out in the next 30 days or so. The brand name and web site are being worked on as we speak, so I can't share those at the moment. These should retail in box of 16 (unpainted, on the sprue, needing put together) for about $16.
How did I forget that… 28mm (to the eyes) is the scale. I don't have any comparisons pictures at the moment, but they are rather close to Perry Mercenaries, Immortal Hoplites, and Fireforge Teutonic. If you look close, you can see some differences, my helms are a little smaller, the arms on mine are a bit thicker, but I don't see that much of a difference overall. The arms being a little bit thicker is more of a byproduct of designing the weapons to be separate from arms at the wrist.
(dramatic pause in time)
Just added some of my parts to some of their parts and it look like a little shaving down here or there is all it takes to merge the footmen with the horsemen to make them not too shabby. So if you really want, you can buy some from them and some from me and merge them together, to either create and army that looks rather uniform, or mix and match to make make and even more diverse looking force. So you will be able to buy Shields, Arms, Weapons and Helms separately, so that should help.
These are injection molded in high impact poly styrene, so rubber molds they are not.
I did design them a little stiff. I was looking at them as being heavy footmen in tighter formations. I think some of the stiffness might be the awkwardness of my first set.
If some parts become an issue, like the need for more dynamic legs and/or arms, I can come back around and revisit that. These have been designed with may smaller sprues instead of fewer larger sprues. So right now, I have a sprue of : heads (helms), arms, Legs (2 different sprues), weapon, torsos and shields (oh, and 20mm bases).
Even if parts aren't an issue, I will try and balance adding random sprues with developing ones for the next set. I would like to add more shields, and more weapons to chose from that will work with this set. I have the advantage/curse that I work on every step in the process, so adding another sprue is more about time than anything else. So I may not be the first (or maybe I am), but I went the route that everything is done "in house".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/28 13:47:19
2012/07/28 14:13:47
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Can't even form an opinion with a bad paintjob like that.
There might be the start of something good under all that paint, but it seems like the person should have done a lot of practise sculpts before committing to plastic.
These look on about the same level as WGF models, which really isn't a compliment.. still playmobil arms, soft detail, poorly-done cloth.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/28 14:18:02
2012/07/28 14:20:06
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
They remind me of toy soldiers I played with when I was a kid. Kinda fun, but the detail and posing leaves much to be desired, and the paintjob is amateurish as noted.
Check out my Youtube channel!
2012/07/28 15:13:32
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
IIRC - he is doing everything in house (quite literally...in his house). While it doesn't necessarily mean much - it is something to keep in mind.
The other issue of course is that there is a surprising market for stiff figures - especially among historical gamers. Some relates to the toy soldiers that you mention - others are because they tend to be set up in tight rank and file formations.
Overall - I think it is a great thing (not for me - but still). There are several companies which are starting to begin cottage plastic industries for miniature gamers. Proxie Models is another I can think of off the top of my head. Tools, machines and manufacture all being done in basements, garages and barns.
Interesting, but I think they'll come up against some stiff competition once Fireforge release their infantry this fall. I'm still waiting for someone to release some Mid to Late 14th century plastics (please Perrys, pretty please?) I'm rather supprised that no-one has, considering it's the era of Edward III's wars.
2012/07/28 19:15:14
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
scarletsquig wrote:
These look on about the same level as WGF models, which really isn't a compliment.. still playmobil arms, soft detail, poorly-done cloth.
The Wargames Factory models look MUCH better than that and that is not a compliment to Wargames Factory.
I can get 50 toy medieval soldiers at roughly that size for 1.99€ I will be very obliging by saying that the sculpting quality of both is equal. However I am more than sceptic if they can compete with that price.
2012/07/29 13:05:17
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Max Jet: where? Please tell me? I want medieval toys for an RPG game, but i could not find them for that price
If my post show some BAD spelling issues, please forgive-me, english is not my natural language, and i never received formal education on it...
My take on Demiurgs (enjoy the reading):
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/537654.page Please, if you think im wrong, correct me (i will try to take it constructively).
2012/07/29 21:24:51
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/29 21:25:08
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2012/07/29 22:05:09
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Resin and Metal Casting are something that can easily be done by anyone, but generally Injection Molded Plastic requires a lot of expensive equipment and know-how.
I'm not disagreeing that these aren't the greatest of models, but the fact that he is making them in his garage is amazing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/29 22:53:46
Cyporiean wrote:to be fair, those are mass produced in China.. and these are made by some dude in his garage.
This is of no relevance. If you cannot produce your miniatures in a quality and price that can compete with anyone else out there you might think again wether the whole thing is worth it.
Also injection molded or not doesn't make a large difference if the proportions and details of the sculpts from these chinese products are vastly better.
I agree that it is somehow astounding what can be achieved in a garage, however this is still business as he wants to sell them and not make a miniature manufacturing museum.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/29 23:14:36
2012/07/29 23:50:40
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Max Jet wrote:This is of no relevance. If you cannot produce your miniatures in a quality and price that can compete with anyone else out there you might think again wether the whole thing is worth it.
It is of relevance if the method to produce them can become common knowledge and reproduced with sculpts of higher quality. Imagine if McVey could make plastic kits in office.
I'd happily transfer the entire Brushfire line over to injection plastic if we didn't have to deal with the whole plastic molds starting at $10k thing.
I don't know, those are pretty poor sculpts. The poses are unnatural and stiff, the detail is lacking or soft, and just generally looks worse than even 1/72 plastic fig. Compare just about anything here: http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/PeriodList.aspx?period=7#England .
-James
2012/07/30 14:01:43
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
I do have to wonder how he is doing this "in his own garage"
Plastic injection plastic is pretty serious stuff. What would a home grown machine even look like? Unless you somehow bought off an older machine or something
2012/07/30 14:15:11
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Max Jet wrote:This is of no relevance. If you cannot produce your miniatures in a quality and price that can compete with anyone else out there you might think again wether the whole thing is worth it.
It is of relevance if the method to produce them can become common knowledge and reproduced with sculpts of higher quality. Imagine if McVey could make plastic kits in office.
I'd happily transfer the entire Brushfire line over to injection plastic if we didn't have to deal with the whole plastic molds starting at $10k thing.
kenshin620 wrote:I do have to wonder how he is doing this "in his own garage"
Plastic injection plastic is pretty serious stuff. What would a home grown machine even look like? Unless you somehow bought off an older machine or something
Actually it isn't nearly as serious as some might think. One of the larger model train accessory manufacturers does all of their stuff in a workshop which is about the size of my garage. Everything from tooling to manufacture. They use aluminum tooling (which while they may not last as long as steel - are more than enough) and smaller presses for injection molding (which limits the sprue size...difficult to do something like a Baneblade on them, but figures are not a problem). Mills and EDM machines are about the same size a refrigerator for the smaller ones. The actual injection machines start out even smaller than that. They are more labor intensive (manual operation of the clamps and parts ejection for example) but they will allow a one man shop to produce a few thousand sprues a day. You can get even less high tech then the commercial equipment:
While it doesn't sound like much - 2 ounces of plastic is actually a pretty good sized sprue. More than enough for multipart plastic figures like we like to play with.
If you are in the San Fransisco Bay area - you might consider stopping by Grandt Line to see if you can get a behind the scenes tour of their shop. Pretty interesting stuff if you are interested in that. Tichy is another one on the East coast (forget where off the top of my head...and I haven't seen their facilities, so they may be more "industrial"). Towards the middle of the country you have Woodland Scenics who - at least a few years ago - did their plastic work in house and although it wasn't a house per se...most of their equipment would fit in a good sized garage.
Without getting into the whole "What is plastic?" philosophical discussion...no, real styrene plastic. Those are neat, but when most people talk plastic they mean something different.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 14:40:23
2012/07/30 23:31:33
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
28mm should refer to the top of the head. This is why scale creep is so bad. Suddenly 28mm becomes 32mm.
The figures themselves are pointless. They have the same level of detail and posing you'd expect from 15mm figures.
Problem is that anything 'to the top of the head' is hard, especially when you start doing fanciful helms and can't tell where the actual head ends.
'to the eyes' is a very standard way of measuring models which gets around this problem.
@The new models:
Props to you for trying, but its not good enough to compete.
2012/07/31 09:09:42
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Except that measuring to the eyes still ignores thickness of boots and it's not really hard at all for a sculptor to know where the top of the head is. How do they know where to put the hat or helmet on if they don't know the shape of the head?
I've heard that excuse given before and it is poor.
2012/07/31 09:35:18
Subject: Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Didn't the problem begin with the US sculpting to a 25mm standard (eye level) and Europe to 28mm (head top) so there have always been different measurements.
And since the original figures were historic wargaming figures the heights represented would have been 'small' by todays standards,
whereas modern scifi settings might be expected to have figures 'tall' by todays standards (no matter how monotonous a diet they were given you could expect it to be balanced even grimdark settings healthy folk can work harder)
2012/07/31 11:18:58
Subject: Re:Plastic 28mm 13th Century English Foot Knights by EccentricTodd
Ken from Proxie Models (linked earlier) posted his shop setup on youtube a while back. He's probably got 10's of thousands of dollars worth of equipment that he picked up second hand for almost nothing and just asked around until he met somebody that could tell him how it all worked. He's a fantastic guy, and his bases are all kinds of awesome. As poor as these English foot knights seem to be, you can tell he's excited about it and it's damn impressive what these guys can do in their garage.
+ 
+
= 
+ 
= Big Lame Mat Ward Lovefest 
