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There's been alot of gnashing of teeth and wailing in many threads about units that have lost some of their effectiveness with the switch to the new edition so I figured I'd start a thread that had people list only units that improved. By improved, I don't mean that the units had to go from horrible to awesome but simply that they got better, even if only from bad to mediocre. The switchover has brought some new life into units that have sat in my basement OUTSIDE of my carrying cases for years unused (and now quite dusty!). The only thing I ask is that we keep the thread upbeat and leave all the whining to other threads so please no complaints about what got worse. Feel free to post units from any codex army or forgeworld list for normal 40k games (no superheavies or gargantuans) and why they got better.

I'll start us out with a few...

1) Shooty Terminators: They got better because of the switch from power weapons from ap2 to ap3 so they now get their save in close combat versus most weapons. Shooty termies specifically here as they also benefit from overwatch unlike their TH/SS brethren that are much more common. Personally, I now see them as a viable alternative to the TH/SS nstead of the inferior bastard stepchildren they were in 5th. Also, dangerous terrain got a whole lot less dangerous now that it allows armors saves and deep strike now only kills them 1/6 of the time with mishap instead of 2/6. Deathwing FTW!

2) IG Stormtroopers: AP3 with focused fire just got deadlier now that people can't take as many or as good cover saves. With their reroll ability for deepstrike, you can be somewhat sure of them arriving in a position where they can hopefully kill a few models with their initial shooting before getting killed themselves. I still see them as ultimately a suicide squad but I think they'll actually survive two rounds now on a regular basis instead of the one they averaged before. Land in terrain for the cover save (see above for why its not as bad as before) and focus fire away at guys outside of cover. With overwatch, there's even a chance of killing another model or two if they assault you as the ap3 shots will probably deter a few charges. Yeah glory boys and their toys!

3)

3) Shoota Boys: Overwatch

4) Wracks: re-roll to wound againt T3 and T4 when the do a Furious Charge.
maybe Hormagaunst as well but I lost my Codex so I can't say for sure.

5) Veteran Demolitions Experts: now they can use Melta Bombs against enemy Monstrous creatures they can take down a lot more enemies. also more Overwatch shenanigans with Flamers, even for Special Weapons Teams.

Try assaulting Fortune Destructor Warlocks

warboss wrote:

2) IG Stormtroopers: AP3 with focused fire just got deadlier now that people can't take as many or as good cover saves. With their reroll ability for deepstrike, you can be somewhat sure of them arriving in a position where they can hopefully kill a few models with their initial shooting before getting killed themselves. I still see them as ultimately a suicide squad but I think they'll actually survive two rounds now on a regular basis instead of the one they averaged before. Land in terrain for the cover save (see above for why its not as bad as before) and focus fire away at guys outside of cover. With overwatch, there's even a chance of killing another model or two if they assault you as the ap3 shots will probably deter a few charges. Yeah glory boys and their toys!

Even with the slight boost to rapid fire and reduction in cover saves, few will find Stormtroopers worthwhile in 6E. They still trade casualties at an even rate with MEQ's when in range, but are outranged by bolters, and in every other respect are inferior.

However, as to units that undoubtedly got better?

Artillery. Anything with this unit type. Instead of being "AV10, if it's glanced its dead" it's now "T7 W2". This means Thunderfire Cannons, Lobbas, Heavy Mortars, Thudd Guns, etc are *much* more survivable now.

Well, for IG, Marbo, Russes, and all the artillery got way better, and that's not even the obvious one (vendettas )

Marbo is the ultimate hitman now. He can be placed as close as possible to a critical target to make sure he kills them, and you can even premeasure to be sure. Then throw in he's got an Ap 2 sniper pistol and a poisoned +2 combat weapon, emperor have mercy on the opponent that leaves him alive past his initial strike. He's even a character and can precision strike in combat.

2. Russes can fire more weapons and move now, and randomized weapon destroyed results are awesome. Even with just a heavy bolter, you've halved the chance of losing the main weapon to a weapon destroyed result. and thats not even counting the ones with blast weapons getting full power under the whole template. Glances also can't silence the tank for a turn like in 5th, so you actually have to pen it or kill it if you want to stop it. You can even take camo netting on them to give them a 3+ cover save behind an aegis defence line.

3. Artillery of all kinds are just better because they're insane now. They can even snipe now. Who needs sniper rifles? we have basilisks!

Vaktathi wrote:Even with the slight boost to rapid fire and reduction in cover saves, few will find Stormtroopers worthwhile in 6E. They still trade casualties at an even rate with MEQ's when in range, but are outranged by bolters, and in every other respect are inferior.

Stormtrooper have a lot of capacity to get to where they want to be. if you're pitting them against the 16 point Space Marines then you don't know what you're doing.

The vendetta got even better. I didn't think it was possible, but it happened anyways. Kinda irks me, really, as it stands miles above the other fast attack choices when speaking in purely competitive terms.

Lord of Change, now gets +2 str and has ap2 attacks, is also a monstrous flying creature, went from being a meh choice to definately worth considering.

Lotet wrote:Stormtrooper have a lot of capacity to get to where they want to be. if you're pitting them against the 16 point Space Marines then you don't know what you're doing.

Right, and that's the problem. They cost as much as Space Marines, and are apparently equipped to fight them, but simply can't. Their capacity to get where they want to be isn't any different than many other units.

Their problem is they have a ton of wargear and special rules that they just simply cannot back up with killing power and survivability, leading to a unit that's grossly over-costed because it's got everything and the kitchen sink, but can't use it effectively.

I agree with much of this, but I don't about the vendetta.

The vendetta just got a lot more fragile (what with being glanceable to death) while in hover mode, and there are an awful lot of restrictions placed on it while it's flying. It's going to spend half the game off the board, and much of the rest of the game pointing at less-than-optimal targets due to turn radius and minimum movement restrictions.

Plus, it lost most of what little credibility it had as a transport, not only due to said restrictions, but the guys inside now suffer a horrible, fiery crash when the vehicle gets picked out of the sky by AA fire.

The vendetta got worse, in my opinion. In 5th ed you could use the scout move for a free cover save and then unload with triple lascannons in a devastating alpha strike on turn 1. Plus, it could contest objectives by itself, and easily capture them with guys inside.

Now, you have to wait for it to show up, do a brief strafing run, and then fall off the board. Its limitations make it worse, really.

The only thing that saves it is the utter lack of competition in the slot, the fact that little else can spam lascannons (which got better in this edition), and that it is now a consummate flier-killer.

Ailaros wrote:I agree with much of this, but I don't about the vendetta.

The vendetta just got a lot more fragile (what with being glanceable to death) while in hover mode, and there are an awful lot of restrictions placed on it while it's flying. It's going to spend half the game off the board, and much of the rest of the game pointing at less-than-optimal targets due to turn radius and minimum movement restrictions.

Plus, it lost most of what little credibility it had as a transport, not only due to said restrictions, but the guys inside now suffer a horrible, fiery crash when the vehicle gets picked out of the sky by AA fire.

The vendetta got worse, in my opinion. In 5th ed you could use the scout move for a free cover save and then unload with triple lascannons in a devastating alpha strike on turn 1. Plus, it could contest objectives by itself, and easily capture them with guys inside.

Now, you have to wait for it to show up, do a brief strafing run, and then fall off the board. Its limitations make it worse, really.

The only thing that saves it is the utter lack of competition in the slot, the fact that little else can spam lascannons (which got better in this edition), and that it is now a consummate flier-killer.

I've had alot of success with my vendetta [yes i only run one right now] It comes on from the flanks turn 2 usually and gets stuff done, turn 3 usually back in reserve. Back in turn 4 and by then there's usually any threats left so it can hove turn 5+.

ba death company,
+2 attacks on the charge.

Tyranids with ib :feed

If not in synapse range and fails leadership test, +2 attacks also!!

I reckon the feel no pain rules have made Plague marines better (unless they get nerfed in the new codex) sure its 5+ but taking a lascannon or powerfist to the face AND SURVIVING is very annoying for your opponent plus extremely funny for you.

Flash Gitz - trading premeasuring for ignoring cover is a boost. Still not a great unit, but not terrible any more.

Nob Bikers. Yes they lost wound allocation, and had FNP dropped down to 5+, but they need railguns to instagib them now

Meganobz - They aren't as slow as molasses in january at the arctic any more.

All GK got a base upgrade when you consider all the actual GKs have a 5+ DTW instead of the normal 6+

Burna Boyz - Oh. My. God. Overwatch

Dreadknights - more attacks in CC plus they cause fear, and with dread combat weps no longer only boosting walkers they can be S10 without halving their attacks!

CrashCanuck wrote:All GK got a base upgrade when you consider all the actual GKs have a 5+ DTW instead of the normal 6+

Say what? How?

Edit: Nevermind their all psykers.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I've had alot of success with my vendetta [yes i only run one right now] It comes on from the flanks turn 2 usually and gets stuff done, turn 3 usually back in reserve. Back in turn 4 and by then there's usually any threats left so it can hove turn 5+.

Well, and I'm not saying the vendettas are horrible. They still have 3 TLLCs, and they still come on a vehicle chassis that can move around and shoot with them. They're still a good unit over all.

What I am saying is that vendettas didn't get better, or at least got better in some ways but worse in others. There appears to be a growing new hysteria about vendettas that seems a little strange to me.

Deathcompany!

New rage +/- FNP = potentially the deadliest troop choice out there (though they cant score).

So I'd like to point out that rage isn't any killier in this edition, it's just less annoying to the rager.

Take a close look on page 41. It says you get +2 to your attacks INSTEAD OF your +1 attack. You don't get +1 attack and then +2 attacks, you get +2 attacks.

This means that rage did what it did before, give you a +1 to attacks.

Ailaros wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I've had alot of success with my vendetta [yes i only run one right now] It comes on from the flanks turn 2 usually and gets stuff done, turn 3 usually back in reserve. Back in turn 4 and by then there's usually any threats left so it can hove turn 5+.

Well, and I'm not saying the vendettas are horrible. They still have 3 TLLCs, and they still come on a vehicle chassis that can move around and shoot with them. They're still a good unit over all.

What I am saying is that vendettas didn't get better, or at least got better in some ways but worse in others. There appears to be a growing new hysteria about vendettas that seems a little strange to me.

I feel they got better due to flier. My detta always died in 5th. why i stopped running her.

Squadrons got better thanks to the new squadron rules. This makes Warwalkers even more viable.

Yeah, and russes.

AV14 with camo nets behind an aegis in a squad gives you 9 HP worth of AV14 that gets a 3+ cover save. If you manage to immobilize one, you just allowed the unit to split its fire...

Ascalam wrote:Flash Gitz - trading premeasuring for ignoring cover is a boost. Still not a great unit, but not terrible any more.

Nob Bikers. Yes they lost wound allocation, and had FNP dropped down to 5+, but they need railguns to instagib them now

Meganobz - They aren't as slow as molasses in january at the arctic any more.

This and also:

Lootas - Can now move and shoot, ADL

Shoota - Overwatch

Big Gunz - T7 on crews!!

Stormravens - Can now choose to zoom, firing 4 weps at full BS and being hard to hit, a lot more survivability there

Eldar Dark Reapers - Cover isn't as tough now, and Focused Fire lets you pick off stagglers.

Snipers - Lots of discussion on these, as a To Hit of 6 lets you choose the target. Various units deal with this differently, though.

Yeah, snipers are also big winners. They went from "Why would I ever take them?" to "I guess I could see some uses for them", which is a massive improvement.

Flash gitz w/ more dakka, shootier and now no cover!
That's 24" range with S6, AP D6, Assault 2 and no cover!

Lotet wrote:4) Wracks: re-roll to wound againt T3 and T4 when the do a Furious Charge.
maybe Hormagaunst as well but I lost my Codex so I can't say for sure.

I'm pretty sure they could do this in 5th...

Although, now that power weapons and AP1/2 don't ignore FNP, Grotesques will only be having their 5+ ignored by S10 weaponry, or Force weapons. Their save is a lot more reliable now. However, their FC doesn't put them, at I5 any more, so it's kind of a toss up

A list like this is pointless. What units got better? Everything with at least one of: jump pack, MC USR, move through cover, 2+ armour save, fearless USR, Rage USR, Nightvision USR or a gun.

Off the top of my head I can't think of a single model which didn't get better. The question is, what models inside their codex are actually worth their points - or in the case of this list, what models became more worth their points than previously? I'd say that units that were bad before, better now, but still dubious in worth do not really merit a mention (I'm thinking of most snipers which are still very costly for what they provide)

Tau Fire Warriors. I've always thought them to be worth their points before (but lacking heavy weapons that all equivalent units get) but now they can hugely benefit from 30" reach with mobility.

Ork Lootas. Not only are they allowed to move and shoot, but when you assault them they get overwatch. They are priced at BS2, so their shooting at BS1 isn't so far away from the target. Ouch.

Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders. This is a unit of snipers, unlike most snipers, so they can output the volume of fire necessary to reliably take out heavy weapons and characters. It is interesting to note hoe the pathfinder upgrade is good but not necessary.
Pathfinders have 1/12 chance of scoring an AP1 Precision shot, the same number is 1/36 for a regular sniper.

Skinnereal: Dark Reapers may move and Snap Fire, but they aren't characters. Their Exarch's best weapon option is still the Barrage weapon which may not Precision Shot. In my experience so far, Focused Fire is of marginal use since the troops outside of cover tend to be those you can see or whom are closest.
My assessment of Dark Reapers is quite simply; they got better but everything else got betterest. Maybe if they were more appropriately priced at around 20 points...