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 Sim-Life wrote:
Why are GW holding off on the ToSK and Battle Sanctum reveal? Just show it already you butts.

There's an open day on the 30th - I expect we might see them then.

the open day should have some sort of reveal, since it isnt Mephiston. I hope there is some juicy stuff.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Why are GW holding off on the ToSK and Battle Sanctum reveal? Just show it already you butts.

They hardly showed off a single unrevealed new thing in the Sisters own Codex, so it's pretty tough to explain their logic.

Not finished painting it seems possible.

Why completely overshadow the boxes no one has yet? Leave it for the day after seems about right.

And frankly I'm half expecting different images throughout the codex when it comes out.

Sim-Life wrote:Why are GW holding off on the ToSK and Battle Sanctum reveal? Just show it already you butts.

They need something to show later when they actually release this stuff. Like how they saved the Chaos lord Discordant for the last week of previews during Spring's multi-week Chaos Marine release. They need new things to keep people excited. Warhammer fans get bored super fast.

the_scotsman wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Lanlaorn wrote:
I also don't understand the point of Penitent Engines compared to Mortifiers.

Penitent Engines are not a new unit. People own Penitent engines. No one owns Motifiers. Mortifiers have better rules. People need to buy the new kit to get Mortifiers.

New model selling 101. How else you gonna sell Malibu Stacey's new flails hat.

. Not again with this stupid rhetoric
For every great new model, two with bad rules come out, it's just that nobody makes a fuss about them and they get forgotten.

GW ain't perfect at balance, and making glaring mistakes is nothing new.
Over valuing zealot and the improved fnp sounds exactly like GW. (though to be fair, 4+ reroll is better than 3+, and the pent cares not about BS)

GW sucks at balance but they do tend to make dual kits seemingly with one version kinda crap, the one that was around forever, and one version actually good or omg good even until they get nerfed down the line.

Some examples ? Ogryn/Bullgryns, Hydra/Wyvern, Manticore/Deathstrike though in all fairness the manticore deathstrike kit was new to plastic for the manticore so in this instance the old model was much much better than the new one.

They do tend to have a trend that in dual kits one is good, the other not so much. Now thats either done out of complete lack of understanding of their own rules, or to be sure they push at least one half of a dual kit so it's sold.

I'm sure there are more examples but I'm not going to just list them all out here.

So which one is it, do they hold all the game design ability of a pair of mutton chops or do they actively try their best to push at least one half of a dual kit with better rules at least in so far as they can understand the rules they write ?

Counterpoints:

Strike Team/Breachers
Hybrid Acolytes/Hybrid Metamorphs
Immortals/Deathmarks
Scions/Scion Command Squad (Everybody had Stormtroopers)

Counter count points

You have a point with the fire warriors and breachers.

I'm not sure either Acolytes or Metamorphs could be considered old or all over when a dual kit for them came out.

It is odd they made immortals and death marks a dual kit. Though I'd say it would be difficult for Death marks to be considered better than immortals when one is a troop choice and the other isn't. However i do recall Deathmarks being good for a time as well, not sure about how they do now as i don't play necrons I'd say though a troop choice ( Immortals ) would be hard pressed to not be better than a niche unit like deathmarks over all making the comparison an odd one at best. As well, if I recall correctly weren't immortals not a troop before the plastic kit and metal ? That would really limit their saturation in the first place.

Are we really calling Scions and Scion command squads a different thing ? Before the plastic kit, the only storm trooper models were very old ( kasirkins not being storm troopers per say ). Yet again they became troops with the drop as scions. As well I'd say until scions dropped there was no unit anywhere called scions making both halves of the box " new " units. I'd further argue. That while Scion command squads can be more potent with special weapons, the fact that scion squads in general are troops makes them good in their own right for other reasons, one of which being you can take them in limitless numbers, as opposed to command squads which are much more limited.

In closing, we could argue the finer points forever but I'm sure there will be some cases where that isn't true, the examples I gave though are easier to compare as it's in general all units in competition with the same slots. I did also cite in my instances the one case where an old model proved to be the better of the two ( Manticore v Deathstrike ). I'd say however most things said, one half of a dual kit tends to be good, the other poop. That does sometimes change as editions progress so further you get from the kit dropping less likely that will hold true but sometimes it does, like the Wyvern, Manticore, and Bullgryn examples.

One UK retailer is stating on Facebook they have a second allocation going on sale Monday. Another UK FLGS has already put up andsold a second wave, so GW is either pulling stock from their own stores , flying it in from countries with excess, found a way to get some more UK stock produced.....or several FLGS are inciting the greatest backlash against themselves in hobby history.

My flgs said last night that they still had 3 available for preorder. I was considering picking up a second box just for the minis, but I decided to skip getting another one.

Well most I know I'm still getting mine but I hope everyone that wants one will be able to get one. Something like this shouldn't be a thing you miss out on unless you want to so good luck out there everyone.

Sisters kill team rules in Kill Team Annual 2019 (a Chapter Approved-style update for Kill Team) :
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/24/coming-soon-blood-of-baal-battleforces-and-beyond/

Wow that is pretty cool!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sisters kill team rules in Kill Team Annual 2019 (a Chapter Approved-style update for Kill Team) :
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/24/coming-soon-blood-of-baal-battleforces-and-beyond/

Nice, been waiting for that, Now if only they can make one for space wolf specific units instead of just only primarus.

Bit miffed the Sisters Kill Team rules are going to be in the Annual when at least the basic units for every other army were in the core book. I'd have been less disappointed with a WD article with them, but would say they should have been in the amry box at least if they weren't going to be a free pdf.

craggy wrote:
Bit miffed the Sisters Kill Team rules are going to be in the Annual when at least the basic units for every other army were in the core book. I'd have been less disappointed with a WD article with them, but would say they should have been in the amry box at least if they weren't going to be a free pdf.

If they had been in WD it would have been real hard for any future KT SOB player.

tneva82 wrote:

craggy wrote:
Bit miffed the Sisters Kill Team rules are going to be in the Annual when at least the basic units for every other army were in the core book. I'd have been less disappointed with a WD article with them, but would say they should have been in the amry box at least if they weren't going to be a free pdf.

If they had been in WD it would have been real hard for any future KT SOB player.

Fair point.

Glad I bought the issue that had the daemons list. How will future chaos daemons, or kroot players manage?

craggy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

craggy wrote:
Bit miffed the Sisters Kill Team rules are going to be in the Annual when at least the basic units for every other army were in the core book. I'd have been less disappointed with a WD article with them, but would say they should have been in the amry box at least if they weren't going to be a free pdf.

If they had been in WD it would have been real hard for any future KT SOB player.

Fair point.

Glad I bought the issue that had the daemons list. How will future chaos daemons, or kroot players manage?

Presumably by buying this book?

Delaying Sisters has to be something where we give them the benefit of the doubt. Of all the various factions in 40K, they were the one that was actively being completely reworked from the ground up.

You'd be way more annoyed if Sister rules came about early, based upon the Index get-you-by rules, and then suddenly a bunch of new Sisters stuff came out that wasn't reflected at all in their KT rules.

Now these new rules will, presumably, be heavily based upon the new concepts in the upcoming SoB Codex, and may even include weapon and unit options that just weren't available at the time.

You must be joking? The basic profile for SoB hasn't changed, down to the nearly-always-useless 6++ and one dice dispel. No new option for BSS, dominions and retributors has been mentioned except for Cherub, despite plenty of pictures and the codex being in the wild. Only difference I can see is miracle dice instead of the old acts of faith (both which could have been missing/working entirely differently in kill team because different scales means different rules), and zephyrims.
Could have added Zephyrim as an add-on afterward, they did include a bunch of new units over time for all factions anyway!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
You must be joking?

You think I'm joking about it being good that Sisters will have the most up to date rules for KT including all the new concepts/ideas from the new Codex?

So you wanted something that would have been basically ancient when it already came out?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You think I'm joking about it being good that Sisters will have the most up to date rules for KT including all the new concepts/ideas from the new Codex?

I think he means that sisters din't have any new concepts or ideas in the codex, other than the Zephyrim. They've actually lost wargear options.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
You must be joking?

You think I'm joking about it being good that Sisters will have the most up to date rules for KT including all the new concepts/ideas from the new Codex?

So you wanted something that would have been basically ancient when it already came out?

The existence of Sisters rules in the core rule book wouldn't have stopped an update in the Annual to account for the new Sisters models any more than the existence of the first 8th ed Marine codex stopped the update to the second one to account for the new Marine models.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You think I'm joking about it being good that Sisters will have the most up to date rules for KT including all the new concepts/ideas from the new Codex?

No, I think you are joking by pretending that the new codex involved such dramatic changes that it's good that Sisters didn't get rules earlier, because I don't see any such change. Though, as Geifer points out, it still wouldn't have been good even if such change were introduced, which they weren't.
To be clear they were no such big change included and the new codex doesn't include big change that would impact KT-scale Sisters and no new change in the codex would impact KT-scale sisters and also the "reword from the ground up" doesn't involve any change that affect Sisters at Kill Team scale. Did I make it clear that the codex didn't include big change that impacts Sisters at Kill Team Scale?

It is totally possible that Kill Team and the 40K rules are handled by different people, and that the Kill Team people were simply told not to do anything at all with Sisters until the new Codex was done, just in case there were significant changes. That wouldn't be surprising to me at all.

It also wouldn't be surprising to me to learn that they wanted to wait until they had a new plastic range to sell before releasing KT rules for Sisters. I'm sure there were a lot of people out there that would have invested in a small number of metal Sisters if they been part of the original Kill team set. I can understand GW wanting to wait and hope those players would buy new plastic instead, especially since KT would have been in development around the same time as new Sisters.

So I'm confused- what goes on sale November 29?

 jake wrote:
It also wouldn't be surprising to me to learn that they wanted to wait until they had a new plastic range to sell before releasing KT rules for Sisters

Seems infinitely more sensible.

 godswildcard wrote:
So I'm confused- what goes on sale November 29?

The army pack.

Saturday the 30th will have a preorder for the Kill Team Annual, which has Sororitas in it, which will release on December 7th.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
So I'm confused- what goes on sale November 29?

The army pack.

Saturday the 30th will have a preorder for the Kill Team Annual, which has Sororitas in it, which will release on December 7th.

Got it! Thanks! I had it in my head that the army box went on sale last weekend...

 godswildcard wrote:
So I'm confused- what goes on sale November 29?

For pre-order or actual release?

 jake wrote:
It is totally possible that Kill Team and the 40K rules are handled by different people, and that the Kill Team people were simply told not to do anything at all with Sisters until the new Codex was done, just in case there were significant changes. That wouldn't be surprising to me at all.

It also wouldn't be surprising to me to learn that they wanted to wait until they had a new plastic range to sell before releasing KT rules for Sisters. I'm sure there were a lot of people out there that would have invested in a small number of metal Sisters if they been part of the original Kill team set. I can understand GW wanting to wait and hope those players would buy new plastic instead, especially since KT would have been in development around the same time as new Sisters.

Worth considering that if you assume a six month lead time for books when they need to be finalized, given the release date of Kill Team that would be before the announcement of plastic Sisters and possibly before GW had fully committed to doing anything with Sisters at all.

Wouldn't surprise me if Sisters we simply left out because GW didn't consider them a supported faction at the time, and afterwards it was to late.

It's still stupid and it doesn't explain why it wasn't rectified with a WD article, of course. But it's worth keeping in mind that those were different times.

 godswildcard wrote:
So I'm confused- what goes on sale November 29?

For Sisters? Just the army box with the codex included in it.

Provided, of course, that the store in question gets any stock at all. Stock levels for this are far lower than demand.

Anything else for Sisters, GW suggested we'd see the first pre-order in January.