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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

It really doesn't help that the AR platform doesn't have a bolt handle directly connected to the bolt which really limits your options when it comes to manipulation. Major failing of the overall design really. So many times I've had a round only partially feed, likely due to mag issues, but I can't just force it forward into battery or just move it forward and backwards slightly. I have to eject the round entirely and start over.

Absolutely no good reason the design couldn't have a bolt handle on a right side channel. The bolt itself is also long enough to keep the opening entirely sealed, so no worries about an open hole being an egress for dirt.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 04:44:13


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Grey Templar wrote:
So many times I've had a round only partially feed, likely due to mag issues, but I can't just force it forward into battery or just move it forward and backwards slightly.


Since the result of forcing an FTF into battery is usually turning a small problem into a much larger one, that is working as intended. The forward assist was added to, in part, do exactly what you describe, but nowadays it is doctrinally advised against for that purpose.

You can still partially retract the bolt and let it drop home if that's all it needs. If it's FTFing because you're riding the bolt forward, don't do that. If it's FTFing because it's not properly lubricated, fix that. If you are operating the weapon correctly and a round fails to feed, either the feed geometry is wrong- in which case mashing the forward assist will bend the case and cause a much worse jam- or there's an obstruction in your chamber which, again, will cause an immediate stoppage, and the harder you ram the round in the harder it will be to extract.

There's no entry in the Soviet manual of arms for smacking the charging handle if the round doesn't feed; and none of the many operators of the G3, FAL, SCAR, MP5, or AUG seem to mind the non-reciprocating charging handle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 15:33:27


 
   
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Ignorance alert.

Ignorance alert.

Just been watching Predator again. Not only is it a really good film, but it’s also really cold in England right now, so I can mildly gloat that Predators wouldn’t bother.

But, when we see a close up of the guns Arnie’s lot are carrying, the end of the barrel looks, well, really small and weedy.

You’ve got for want of a more informed description the “Phillips head” end to the barrel (which I understand helps will recoil or such). But in the middle, there’s what looks like a teeny tiny pipe.

Is...is that the sign of a prop gun designed only to fire blanks, or is it an actual feature of that gun and the projectiles are just way tinier than I ever assumed?

Quickly now, there’s gun ignorance actively looking to be better informed. And from a dirty socialist lefty too!

Come along, before the rot spreads!!!

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Annandale, VA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Quickly now, there’s gun ignorance actively looking to be better informed. And from a dirty socialist lefty too!


My dude, asking questions is all good, don't sweat it.

Are you talking about the muzzle of this rifle?



If so, that little protruding bit in the middle is a Hollywood blank adapter, built into a birdcage-style flash hider. The narrow aperture forces pressure to build behind it, which provides the gas pressure needed for the rifle to cycle. Without one of those, a blank doesn't build up much pressure (since there's no bullet to obstruct the barrel) and won't cycle a semi-auto.

Military blank fire adapters look more like this, because it's very important to know that nobody's got a live rifle during an exercise, and equally important to know that nobody's left a blank adapter on a rifle that will subsequently be shot with live ammo. Obviously Hollywood needs something a little more discreet.

All that said- .223-caliber bullets (as used by the M16s in Predator, but also the L85s in British use, and pretty much every other Western nation's service rifle) are actually pretty tiny. Rifle ammunition is typically lighter and thinner than pistol ammunition, but fired at a tremendously higher velocity. So the inner diameter of a barrel is actually only about a quarter-inch; not too far off from the blank adapter to start with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 20:52:14


 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Cartridges are usually described by the projectile diameter multiplied by the overall cartridge length. 5.56 is properly referred to as 5.56x45mm. It fires a 5.56mm diameter projectile from a cartridge that has an overall length of 45mm. 7.62x39mm is a 7.62mm bullet fired from a cartridge with an overall length of 39mm. etc...

5.56x45mm actually has the same bullet diameter as a dinky .22lr. It is significantly more powerful because of the higher velocity and, usually, a heavier bullet(depends on the brand and specific ammo in question). Heavier bullet+higher velocity=more energy. 5.56 is also in the grand scheme of things a weedy cartridge when you compare it to other intermediate and rifle calibers, if we are talking just the energy that the projectile has. The main benefit to 5.56 is that it has relatively high velocity and a flatter overall ballistic trajectory. This makes it a decent round for precision shooting.

Really the main reason you would use blank adapters at all is for safety. A blank cartridge still sends out high pressure gas and some wadding material which can still hurt or kill you at close range. Kinda like how pressure washers say don't put your fingers in front of the nozzle. 50ft away, the blank isn't going to hurt you at all. But if you're 5ft away, it could definitely still hurt you.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 catbarf wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
So many times I've had a round only partially feed, likely due to mag issues, but I can't just force it forward into battery or just move it forward and backwards slightly.


Since the result of forcing an FTF into battery is usually turning a small problem into a much larger one, that is working as intended. The forward assist was added to, in part, do exactly what you describe, but nowadays it is doctrinally advised against for that purpose.

You can still partially retract the bolt and let it drop home if that's all it needs. If it's FTFing because you're riding the bolt forward, don't do that. If it's FTFing because it's not properly lubricated, fix that. If you are operating the weapon correctly and a round fails to feed, either the feed geometry is wrong- in which case mashing the forward assist will bend the case and cause a much worse jam- or there's an obstruction in your chamber which, again, will cause an immediate stoppage, and the harder you ram the round in the harder it will be to extract.

There's no entry in the Soviet manual of arms for smacking the charging handle if the round doesn't feed; and none of the many operators of the G3, FAL, SCAR, MP5, or AUG seem to mind the non-reciprocating charging handle.


The option being there would be nice. I want the ability to firmly manipulate the bolt forwards and backwards.

Mostly its issues when I'm running my .458 socom upper. Constant jam city and I would like to be able to slowly move the bolt back and forth to possibly see what areas of friction are causing my constant jams, but my only option is a hard reset and hope the next round feeds. Halfway pulling the bolt back doesn't help generally, wiggling the rifle usually makes the .458 round come loose but then the bolt lacks the energy to actually seat the shell.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 22:06:25


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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 Hordini wrote:
You guys make some good points about carrying a second magazine in case of a magazine failure. I'm considering carrying a second magazine more often just for that reason.

3:00 is the exact point I think a few people made; just said by Clint Smith.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8mCAd7giD2o&t=367s


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kayback wrote:
The immediate actions with a FAL aren't that bad, honestly. Woot R1.

Most of the failures I've read about with the M16/M4 and M249 have been from GI's, the "spec ops" like Ranger and Delta seem to have far less issues. I strongly suspect the "lowest common denominator" maintenance. Guns gotta be lubed to run, not pass a white glove inspection.

While I've mostly used my own AK, I do have decent trigger time on AR's and have competed against them often enough to be able to guess which ones will fail. And it isn't the well maintained ones used by serious shooters but the occasional user who couldn't tell you the correct areas to lubricate.

Most problems that people have with the 249 is because of age. A lot of them are pushing 30 years old with only barrel changes. You’re starting to see FCGs fall out; extractors break off; bent receivers. It’s also a mad scientist design that isn’t any of the things that make the MAG an amazing medium machine gun. The STANAG mag well is the root of a lot of it’s functionality issues.

If you investigated most of the issues US soldiers have with the M4 system; you’ll find the magazine is the cause in most of them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/21 00:30:04


 Avatar 720 wrote:
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UK

I had fun at the weekend, "Civilian Service Rifle" match on electronic targets at MOD range.

Pop-up targets at 100, 200 and 300 metres, falling when hit - Great time had by all


   
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Beast Coast

Thanks for sharing the video, AustonT. Clint Smith makes some good points.

Slinky, looks like that was a great time! What rifle did you use?

   
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UK

 Hordini wrote:
Thanks for sharing the video, AustonT. Clint Smith makes some good points.

Slinky, looks like that was a great time! What rifle did you use?


It was great fun, yes

I had my "straight pull" AR15, this is me shooting it in a different CSR comp, you can see the handle on the side for UK legal reasons:


   
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UK

 Grey Templar wrote:
I hate disassembling my glock. You need 3 hands to juggle it while you line everything up.


Really? I was actually impressed with how easy it was to strip and clean the Glock 19. Took a few seconds and required very little cleaning at all. I thought it was a remarkably simple piece of kit. Put about 300 rounds through one yesterday. I was smiling all the way home, thoroughly enjoyed myself.

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

2.5 months of waiting, but my DP12 is finally here!

Swapped the stock forward grip with something a little more handy, and I have a sling+iron sights which should be here next week.
[Thumb - DP12.jpg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/01 01:57:46


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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On moon miranda.

Slinky wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
Thanks for sharing the video, AustonT. Clint Smith makes some good points.

Slinky, looks like that was a great time! What rifle did you use?


It was great fun, yes

I had my "straight pull" AR15, this is me shooting it in a different CSR comp, you can see the handle on the side for UK legal reasons:

That's actually a pretty cool setup, though does it need a side charging handle in addition to the t-handle for legal reasons, or is it just handier that way?

Just out of curiosity, noticing that stainless barrel, what's it like getting and swapping barrels over there, particularly as they are controlled parts as I understand it?

Grey Templar wrote:2.5 months of waiting, but my DP12 is finally here!

Swapped the stock forward grip with something a little more handy, and I have a sling+iron sights which should be here next week.
You'll have to share how it shoots! They look like the ultimate videogame gun.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

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UK

 Vaktathi wrote:
That's actually a pretty cool setup, though does it need a side charging handle in addition to the t-handle for legal reasons, or is it just handier that way?

Just out of curiosity, noticing that stainless barrel, what's it like getting and swapping barrels over there, particularly as they are controlled parts as I understand it?


The side charging handle is way handier and faster - These competitions vary in range from 600 yards all the way down to 25, and at the short ranges there are some quite rapid fire stages.

With the standard T charging handle you would have to move your head out of the way etc, whereas the side charger lets you pretty much stay in the aim, it's very ergonomic

Barrels are controlled, yes, but there's no issue having an existing rifle rebarreled, it's only if you want a spare that you would need it put on your certificate, but lots of people have that if they are paranoid that their barrel will suddenly go bad

   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Vaktathi wrote:


Grey Templar wrote:2.5 months of waiting, but my DP12 is finally here!

Swapped the stock forward grip with something a little more handy, and I have a sling+iron sights which should be here next week.
You'll have to share how it shoots! They look like the ultimate videogame gun.


Planning on next thursday.

It is quite heavy, but it has very nice ergonomics. It balances right on the pistol grip so its not unbalanced if you are holding it with just the trigger hand. It comes right naturally into the shoulder and the cheek weld is comfortable. Perfect height for using the rail as a sight, or any optics you might install. The weight will definitely cut down on the recoil, plus the springs in the buttpad.

I do kinda wish the under-rail was tiny bit longer, even an inch would be enough. It is barely long enough to get a flashlight attachment in front of the vert grip, and you lose the ability to grab the first couple inches. Not enough to make it unusable, just not as comfortable as I would like. I might eventually buy a vert+flashlight combo somewhere.

I'll also say that disassembly is... not easy. You have to take the buttpad off(which involves 2 different hex keys) and remove the lower assembly to get access to the bolt carrier. They claim that they come pre-lubed for up to 10,000 cycles of the action, but that sounds like a load of BS. Also, taking the magazine caps off requires a blow torch to melt the thread cement, because they cement them on for some reason despite it being a part that bears absolutely no stress

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/02 04:29:56


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

Saw something quirky at the local gun store the other day, a custom Hatfield .410 shotgun pistol.

A Hatfield can be purchased at local Walmarts around here for about $90. Pretty cheap single shot .410 shotgun, but reliable from what I hear.

What set this apart though? Apparently someone was able to get their hands on a blank receiver and was sold as such. This means that as long as a stock is never attached you can put a super short barrel on it. Some rather interesting custom woodwork was done on it to make it look like a 1700's era flintlock pistol.

Just strange enough to make me consider it.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

If it never had a stock on it it would not be considered a shotgun, and thus not a short barreled shotgun. But I think such a weapon would fall under the classification of an AOW since it would be less than 30" long, and thus be concealable. Unless the barrel is rifled, which would make it a pistol. Which is how stuff like the Taurus Judge is legal because its rifled, and thus is a pistol. If it was smoothbore it would be an AOW.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-does-%E2%80%9Cany-other-weapon-mean

I would be very leery of the legality of such a weapon. Of course its possible it is a registered AOW, which would be fine. you'd just need to pay the $200 tax stamp and do all the transfer paperwork. But if its not, it might be an unregistered one without knowing more about its specific characteristics.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/03 05:40:55


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 cuda1179 wrote:
Saw something quirky at the local gun store the other day, a custom Hatfield .410 shotgun pistol.

A Hatfield can be purchased at local Walmarts around here for about $90. Pretty cheap single shot .410 shotgun, but reliable from what I hear.

What set this apart though? Apparently someone was able to get their hands on a blank receiver and was sold as such. This means that as long as a stock is never attached you can put a super short barrel on it. Some rather interesting custom woodwork was done on it to make it look like a 1700's era flintlock pistol.

Just strange enough to make me consider it.


Like the Handy-gun in .410, this would be an 'Any Other Weapon'.


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Denison, Iowa

 Grey Templar wrote:
If it never had a stock on it it would not be considered a shotgun, and thus not a short barreled shotgun. But I think such a weapon would fall under the classification of an AOW since it would be less than 30" long, and thus be concealable. Unless the barrel is rifled, which would make it a pistol. Which is how stuff like the Taurus Judge is legal because its rifled, and thus is a pistol. If it was smoothbore it would be an AOW.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-does-%E2%80%9Cany-other-weapon-mean

I would be very leery of the legality of such a weapon. Of course its possible it is a registered AOW, which would be fine. you'd just need to pay the $200 tax stamp and do all the transfer paperwork. But if its not, it might be an unregistered one without knowing more about its specific characteristics.



Incorrect. A stockless shotgun (aka not-a-shotgun) is considered a "firearm" under Federal regulations and may be as short as 26 inches in overall length with any length barrel and does NOT constitute and AOW. The one I was looking at is 26.1 inches long. Yes, this means the "flintlock" look is a bit spoiled.


Just something I thought up: If one were to weld a picatinny mount on top of a single shot shotgun like this, and sling it under a AR-15 pistol (grenade Launcher style) it would make the most ridiculous Range ninja setup.
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 cuda1179 wrote:

Incorrect. A stockless shotgun (aka not-a-shotgun) is considered a "firearm" under Federal regulations and may be as short as 26 inches in overall length with any length barrel and does NOT constitute and AOW. The one I was looking at is 26.1 inches long.


Again, see my example of the H&R Handy gun. Your idea has been done before, it's an Any Other Weapon.


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Denison, Iowa

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:

Incorrect. A stockless shotgun (aka not-a-shotgun) is considered a "firearm" under Federal regulations and may be as short as 26 inches in overall length with any length barrel and does NOT constitute and AOW. The one I was looking at is 26.1 inches long.


Again, see my example of the H&R Handy gun. Your idea has been done before, it's an Any Other Weapon.


And yet the Mossberg Shockwave, which is a "not a shotgun" has a 14 inch barrel, and is 26 inches long and is NOT an AOW. So, yes, it has been done before (legally). The Handy Gun is an AOW because it is too short in overall length.

I just read through the ATF regulations. In order to be an AOW, a firearm must fall into at least one of the following categories:

1.A pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell. (Arguably you need two hands, so not a pistol, so this doesn't fit, by definitiond)

2.Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading. (it's over 18 inches, so this part doesn't apply)

3. Any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

Edit, just ran over the local gunstore, as it's next door to me. They confirmed it is being sold as a regular, non AOW, firearm.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/04 02:12:11


 
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 cuda1179 wrote:

And yet the Mossberg Shockwave, which is a "not a shotgun" has a 14 inch barrel, and is 26 inches long and is NOT an AOW. So, yes, it has been done before (legally). The Handy Gun is an AOW because it is too short in overall length.


You left off the fourth category: any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive.

Mossberg actually published a letter from BATF/DOJ that explained why the Shockwave is not a AOW. All over the place in the letter it talks about how taking certain actions with it would make it an AoW (See above)




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Huh. So, like, punch guns would be AOW?

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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 cuda1179 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
If it never had a stock on it it would not be considered a shotgun, and thus not a short barreled shotgun. But I think such a weapon would fall under the classification of an AOW since it would be less than 30" long, and thus be concealable. Unless the barrel is rifled, which would make it a pistol. Which is how stuff like the Taurus Judge is legal because its rifled, and thus is a pistol. If it was smoothbore it would be an AOW.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-does-%E2%80%9Cany-other-weapon-mean

I would be very leery of the legality of such a weapon. Of course its possible it is a registered AOW, which would be fine. you'd just need to pay the $200 tax stamp and do all the transfer paperwork. But if its not, it might be an unregistered one without knowing more about its specific characteristics.



Incorrect. A stockless shotgun (aka not-a-shotgun) is considered a "firearm" under Federal regulations and may be as short as 26 inches in overall length with any length barrel and does NOT constitute and AOW. The one I was looking at is 26.1 inches long. Yes, this means the "flintlock" look is a bit spoiled.


Just something I thought up: If one were to weld a picatinny mount on top of a single shot shotgun like this, and sling it under a AR-15 pistol (grenade Launcher style) it would make the most ridiculous Range ninja setup.


Ok, I guess i was misremembering the specific length threshold.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Seneca Nation of Indians

Anvildude wrote:
Huh. So, like, punch guns would be AOW?


You know, I'm not actually sure on that one. It would probably depend on the gun and how it's designed.


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 BaronIveagh wrote:
...

You left off the fourth category: any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive.

Mossberg actually published a letter from BATF/DOJ that explained why the Shockwave is not a AOW. All over the place in the letter it talks about how taking certain actions with it would make it an AoW (See above)


This video highlights the majority of the pistol/rifle/aow rules:

   
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Annandale, VA

Anvildude wrote:
Huh. So, like, punch guns would be AOW?


Punch guns are AOWs, as are cane guns, pen guns, and anything else designed to be concealed (but not simply a concealed pistol).

Anyways, here's the tl;dr:

-If it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder, it's not a rifle or shotgun. (Note that once a rifle/shotgun, always a rifle/shotgun, even if you remove the stock)

-If it's not designed to be fired with one hand, it's not a pistol.

-If it's not under 26", it's not an AOW.

And that leaves the nebulous 'firearm' category as a catch-all for the weird weapons that aren't designed to fire from the shoulder, aren't designed to be fired one-handed, and aren't under 26".

Nowadays it comes up most frequently in two contexts: Pistol-grip-only 12ga guns like the Shockwave, or ARs with short barrels, braces, and foregrips. That latter category primarily exists because if an AR is manufactured as a pistol and under 26" overall, adding a foregrip turns it into an AOW and requires registration, but if it's over 26" then it's just a firearm.

Clear as mud?
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 catbarf wrote:

And that leaves the nebulous 'firearm' category as a catch-all for the weird weapons that aren't designed to fire from the shoulder, aren't designed to be fired one-handed, and aren't under 26".


And, IIRC, are made after 1893. Since, apparently, firearms weren't made before a certain date.


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Annandale, VA

1898, actually. Buy a Mosin from 1900 and it needs a background check, buy an identical Mosin from 1896 and it doesn't.

It's also only a firearm if it uses a metallic cartridge. Buy a black powder revolver and it's not a firearm, buy a metallic cartridge conversion cylinder and that's not a firearm either, but put the two together and you've manufactured a firearm. This means you can put a shoulder stock on a black powder revolver, but not one that uses cartridges, because that's an SBR.

Watch out, because state law differs. In New York you can own a black powder revolver on its own and it's not a firearm, but if you also own powder or bullets then it's considered a handgun and you need a pistol permit.

It's a pain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/05 19:09:04


 
   
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Denison, Iowa

 catbarf wrote:
1898, actually. Buy a Mosin from 1900 and it needs a background check, buy an identical Mosin from 1896 and it doesn't.

It's also only a firearm if it uses a metallic cartridge. Buy a black powder revolver and it's not a firearm, buy a metallic cartridge conversion cylinder and that's not a firearm either, but put the two together and you've manufactured a firearm. This means you can put a shoulder stock on a black powder revolver, but not one that uses cartridges, because that's an SBR.

Watch out, because state law differs. In New York you can own a black powder revolver on its own and it's not a firearm, but if you also own powder or bullets then it's considered a handgun and you need a pistol permit.

It's a pain.


Wait, HUH????? in NY it's not a pistol unless you have the ammunition needed to fire it, then it is a pistol?
   
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 cuda1179 wrote:

Wait, HUH????? in NY it's not a pistol unless you have the ammunition needed to fire it, then it is a pistol?


Welcome to the world of state firearms laws.


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