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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Movie Trope. Where a semi-automatic pistol’s slide locks in the rear position to signify you’re out of ammo.

Real thing?

Real thing but depends on the shooter?

Complete invention for cinematic storytelling reasons?

Real thing and pretty much standard nowadays.

The only time it might not lock back is due to mechanical failure.

Rifles are much more mixed - AR15s lock open, AKs don't, other models vary.

Oh cool

I’m guessing that when there are still rounds in the magazine, the spring pushing the next round up triggers a switch, allowing the slide to pop back into the forward position?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m guessing there’s also an engineering wear and tear logic behind such a lock out.

Like how you never dry fire a bow. Not even if you’re a 14 year old spotty Herbert in the USA for the first time ever.

Which I never did or was, honest.

Usually, it involves the follower in the magazine catching the bolt as it travels forward(the follower is the plate in the magazine that is between the bullets and the spring) when it is at its highest(empty) position. Some guns also have a little catch that is also triggered by the follower and will continue to hold the bolt open while a new magazine is inserted. Some guns do not and the bolt will get released when you remove the magazine.

Pretty much all semi-auto handguns have this feature along with a push-button release so you can simply put a new magazine in and then hit a button to drop the slide and chamber a new round without having to fully rack the slide. AR15s, and all related weapons, have a bolt catch which locks the bolt on an empty magazine and holds it open till you push the release. AK magazines do hold the bolt open on an empty magazine(unless its one of the magazines which do not have this type of follower), but on most models there is no catch so when the magazine is dropped the bolt will move again unless you install an aftermarket part or have one of the models that has one by default.

Dry firing is definitely not as big a deal with guns as bows, but some guns do have more delicate internals, especially more antique ones like early 1900s automatic pistols. But this isn't related to bolt-hold mechanisms.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Movie Trope. Where a semi-automatic pistol’s slide locks in the rear position to signify you’re out of ammo.

Real thing?

Real thing but depends on the shooter?

Complete invention for cinematic storytelling reasons?

It depends. It's common for auto-loaders to lock open on empty, but not intrinsic to the design. Experienced (top notch) shooters, however, never let it happen. They know the round count and drop the empty and insert a new one so that it just keeps running. The late great Paul Harrell would always say "For demonstration purposes only" when he ran a gun dry because he would never do so in practice.

But it does look dramatic and someone cool to do all the clicky stuff, sort of like racking a shotgun or thumbing back the hammer on a double-action revolver.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Movie Trope. Where a semi-automatic pistol’s slide locks in the rear position to signify you’re out of ammo.

Real thing?

Real thing but depends on the shooter?

Complete invention for cinematic storytelling reasons?

It's a real thing......Kinda. There are some guns that do this, and some that don't. It's a design feature of the weapon. It's known as the last-round hold open. Is it a necessity? Technically no, but I prefer it and anyone that isn't designing a pistol with one really missed the boat.

Edit: there is also the chance that "official" magazines in a semi auto will enable a last-round hold open, but that some knock-off discount magazines (I'm looking at you Tapco) might not be fully compatible. I've also seen this with "clone weapons". Sometimes you can use one model's magazine in another weapon because they are based on the same design. My wife's Taurus 738 .380 auto will accept a magazine from a Diamondback (that I put a Kel-Tech mag extension for a 3rd pistol on) and this happens.

Someone with more knowledge of pistols will have to correct me, but I would say it's most if not all semi-autos do this, at least all those I've fired (Glock 17, Browning HP, C22)

Some cheaper pistols don't have a last round hold open. Anyone with a Hi Point want to chime in?

I watched a few Youtube vids of people shooting some Hi-Points and even the 100$ pistol locked back

The Davis Industries .32 that I got rid of also didn't hold open at the end of the magazine.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Some cheaper pistols don't have a last round hold open. Anyone with a Hi Point want to chime in?

Yeah, HiPoints lock back. Our drills, though, were to NEVER just drop mag, insert, send slide forward, engage - no, apparently too many people have done something stupid and accidentally discharged doing it how it's meant to be done.

Instead, send slide forward, drop mag, insert, manually rack, engage. Ridiculous.

 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Some cheaper pistols don't have a last round hold open. Anyone with a Hi Point want to chime in?

Yeah, HiPoints lock back. Our drills, though, were to NEVER just drop mag, insert, send slide forward, engage - no, apparently too many people have done something stupid and accidentally discharged doing it how it's meant to be done.

Instead, send slide forward, drop mag, insert, manually rack, engage. Ridiculous.

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you implying that you were part of an organization that issued Hi-points and had a dumb drill to go with them?

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Some cheaper pistols don't have a last round hold open. Anyone with a Hi Point want to chime in?

Yeah, HiPoints lock back. Our drills, though, were to NEVER just drop mag, insert, send slide forward, engage - no, apparently too many people have done something stupid and accidentally discharged doing it how it's meant to be done.

Instead, send slide forward, drop mag, insert, manually rack, engage. Ridiculous.

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you implying that you were part of an organization that issued Hi-points and had a dumb drill to go with them?

It does look like that, but only because I'm currently on shift work, exhausted, and read Hi Point as Hi-Power.

My comment relating to the Hi-Power and stupid drills stands, but I bow out on the Hi Point, no idea.

Lol. I was going to ask about this mythical police force which decided to adopt the cheapest thing possible

 Grey Templar wrote:
Lol. I was going to ask about this mythical police force which decided to adopt the cheapest thing possible

Armed with Hi Points, driving surplus Yugos. Vests made of duck taped TV Guides. no handcuffs, just twisted baling wire.

Hah, sounds like [insert your favourite local city rival here]!

 cuda1179 wrote:
Some cheaper pistols don't have a last round hold open. Anyone with a Hi Point want to chime in?

Also common on older service pistols, some of which will not close unless the magazine is removed. Actually, I think the Walter P380 works that way, and it isn't old at all. It's a mixed bag with some these - they either close the moment the magazine is withdrawn, or have to be cycled.

The flagged plastic insert is especially useful for guns like this, though using an empty cartridge case will work in a pinch to "show empty."


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 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Some cheaper pistols don't have a last round hold open. Anyone with a Hi Point want to chime in?

Yeah, HiPoints lock back. Our drills, though, were to NEVER just drop mag, insert, send slide forward, engage - no, apparently too many people have done something stupid and accidentally discharged doing it how it's meant to be done.

Instead, send slide forward, drop mag, insert, manually rack, engage. Ridiculous.

My daughter struggled with her Air Force rifle qualification - not so much the accuracy, but the manual of arms. It got her flustered, which spoiled her accuracy. So we went to range and I called out the commands for her (loading three rounds per magazine) until it felt familiar. It is a bit convoluted.

She did fine on the M9 (which the Guard still has). I never got a chance to do pistol qualification in either the Army or the Air Force.

Anyone been hunting this year? How did you get on?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Anyone been hunting this year? How did you get on?

I managed to get out and blast a bunch of pigeons (Animal, not flying targets). With how life has been going the last 10 years I feel lucky for that. Darned flying rats.

My previous previous flat had a tiny, impractical balcony. Home to pigeons. The dirty, noisy hideous little sky rats.

Blast away, I say.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Anyone been hunting this year? How did you get on?

I don't hunt much at this point, except predators on the property, but a couple of weeks ago my son got a 175 pound buck in my back pasture. I had to go help him load it onto the utility vehicle so he could take it and process it. My help earned me some meat off of it.

Mmmm. Venison!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My previous previous flat had a tiny, impractical balcony. Home to pigeons. The dirty, noisy hideous little sky rats.

Blast away, I say.

A bit macabre, but there is something hilarious when you aim for one pigeon, and another flies right in front of your barrel as you pull the trigger. I hit a bird about 10 feet in front of me with 3 inch 12 gauge birdshot. Feather-Explosion.

 cuda1179 wrote:


A bit macabre, but there is something hilarious when you aim for one pigeon, and another flies right in front of your barrel as you pull the trigger. I hit a bird about 10 feet in front of me with 3 inch 12 gauge birdshot. Feather-Explosion.

Decades ago I was out hunting for upland birds and one of the dogs was poorly trained, flushed everything in sight. I stopped to take a leak, and as I was walking to catch up with everyone, and almost stepped on a rabbit. We looked at each other for a moment, and the thought popped into my head that this critter was in fact "small game" just like the birds, so it was in-season and covered by my license. There followed the moment of tension when I tried to slowly unsling my shotgun without the critter knowing what I was doing, but it was not deceived and took off. I was able to snap off the safety and get a shot off as it dashed into the undergrowth and in fact it was a clean kill.

I was 13 at the time, so there was much back-slapping by our hunting party and it turned out that I'd bagged the only game we took that day, which my mother cooked with herbs and served with wild rice. Delicious!

The dog was sent to obedience school and did much better.

My nephew bagged a deer with his 1956 Mosin. This was the moment that he and my brother realized that it may be time to chase down some ball ammo. The round liquefied the heart and left a rather sizeable exit wound.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


My daughter struggled with her Air Force rifle qualification - not so much the accuracy, but the manual of arms. It got her flustered, which spoiled her accuracy. So we went to range and I called out the commands for her (loading three rounds per magazine) until it felt familiar. It is a bit convoluted.

She did fine on the M9 (which the Guard still has). I never got a chance to do pistol qualification in either the Army or the Air Force.

It is different per service? From memory I was sure its platform based in the UK, though everyone has their own usage twists.

What used to be my local pub, going back 15 or so years ago used to get wild game supplied for its kitchen,

Tucking into a bit of rabbit, and having to spit out the shot is an experience. Sure, I can see some being squeamish about such things. But for me it’s a reminder of how we get meat on the table in the first place.

I could do without the pomp and ceremony nonsense of Toff Hunting in the UK (tweed suits, lack of chin, mindless braying and hooting). But I know full well where the Pheasant, Venison, Rabbit etc I enjoy on occasion came from.

And in the UK specifically (possibly other places too?), given we’ve long since wiped out their natural predators Deer do need to be culled.

Yeah, Deer and pigs are absolute menaces. Over here its not even that their predators have been wiped out, its that the deer are just way outbreeding in manicured suburbia thanks to the food abundance. Which leads to massive cycles of feast and famine every 5-6 years where the population explodes, then starves as they eat every green thing they can reach, die off to lower levels, the greenery recovers, and then it just repeats. Coyotes and mountain lions will go into the suburbs, but they can't keep up with the deer.

Pigs of course have no real predators other than humans.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


My daughter struggled with her Air Force rifle qualification - not so much the accuracy, but the manual of arms. It got her flustered, which spoiled her accuracy. So we went to range and I called out the commands for her (loading three rounds per magazine) until it felt familiar. It is a bit convoluted.

She did fine on the M9 (which the Guard still has). I never got a chance to do pistol qualification in either the Army or the Air Force.

It is different per service? From memory I was sure its platform based in the UK, though everyone has their own usage twists.

The standards are different, but the issue with the M9 is that she's a medic, and they all train with the M9 as they may have to carry one for self-defense when rendering humanitarian assistance.

With my career field it's assumed I'll have a rifle. The Army likewise never trained me on the M9, for the same reason. Rifle and grenade, yes, but no pistol.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, Deer and pigs are absolute menaces. Over here its not even that their predators have been wiped out, its that the deer are just way outbreeding in manicured suburbia thanks to the food abundance. Which leads to massive cycles of feast and famine every 5-6 years where the population explodes, then starves as they eat every green thing they can reach, die off to lower levels, the greenery recovers, and then it just repeats. Coyotes and mountain lions will go into the suburbs, but they can't keep up with the deer.

Pigs of course have no real predators other than humans.

Piggies are also a human introduced invasive species.

Like US Crawfish in certain UK rivers. How we’ve not gone Seafood Boil on them, I don’t know. Crawfish are delicious, and invasive. It’s not a one season fix, but if we got organised and ate as many of the critters as we could? It would help, and overtime potentially sort them right out.

And give me a damned good feed at the same time.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


My daughter struggled with her Air Force rifle qualification - not so much the accuracy, but the manual of arms. It got her flustered, which spoiled her accuracy. So we went to range and I called out the commands for her (loading three rounds per magazine) until it felt familiar. It is a bit convoluted.

She did fine on the M9 (which the Guard still has). I never got a chance to do pistol qualification in either the Army or the Air Force.

It is different per service? From memory I was sure its platform based in the UK, though everyone has their own usage twists.

The standards are different, but the issue with the M9 is that she's a medic, and they all train with the M9 as they may have to carry one for self-defense when rendering humanitarian assistance.

With my career field it's assumed I'll have a rifle. The Army likewise never trained me on the M9, for the same reason. Rifle and grenade, yes, but no pistol.

All of our medics were trained on the M9 AND the M4/M16. Likewise when I went through 11B OSUT we were trained on EVERY weapon system utilized by the Infantry. I'm not sure how you got breezed past the 9. That sounds like a unit thing and not an Army thing.