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Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Beardedragon wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
Glasshammer and explosively unreliable do feel like the proper archetype for an ork psyker. I wouldn't be surprised if the weirdboyz don't change much in the new edition. They are decent enough as is IMO.


they should have 2 psychic powers and be able to deny 2 psychic powers by standard. Many factions have several psykers so they dont need to care, but we usually only run one psyker so we do care. Its almost mandatory at this point to spend 1 CP on warphead if you run a weirdboy.

Their rooster of spells is also terrible. They dont even have a "click and damage" psychic power targeting a single person, they only have things that are good against large units, as well as smite that we also cant target. For an ork psyker meant to spill psychic vomit on people, they sure dont do a lot of damage. They should have more offensive spells that does damage.


I'm not sure if i'd call the ork spell list terrible. 3 of our spells will find uses in many, many lists. A reposition spell, a unit buff spell and a character buff spell. All of which very good. The Klan spells added in later were also fairly good, like good enough to shape a battle plan good.

In all likelihood the warphead will become a points upgrade, maybe we'll get lucky and the base weirdboy will get a bit cheaper, who knows. Hopefully Roar of gork will be dropped and get the direct damage spell you mentioned, I can't disagree that eadbanger and krunch are just too situational to be of use. Not sure if I ever cast either to be honest. But overall I'd still call the spell list good to great, every spell list gets a few stinkers.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Beardedragon wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It's not like a 5++ is going to save a weird boy from anything

They are essentially just herded into battle by the orks without any gear because they are ticking timebombs and they want them to go off roughly into the enemies direction. They can't really be compared to librarians or farseers.


sure lorewise. But gameplay wise why would you throw your psyker in to the thick of it. To hope that he dies from a peril and explodes?

Not just perils, some of them just explode because they overload.
Up till 7th edition, you didn't even have any control over what powers the weirdboy would use each turn, you had a d6 table and he would randomly cast one of the powers - with 'ead banger literally being his head exploding. Ork psykers have never been as powerful or reliable as they have been in 8th or 9th.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm quite glad that the weird boy finally stopped being a joke character, but expecting him to be a super-reliable super-durable ork farseer equivalent kind of misses the point.

Lorewise actually i was never under the impression that they threw weirdboys at the enemy with the intention of exploding on them. As i understand it, they still kept their distance, they just used them as psychic bombardments when the waaagh energy level became too high and the excess energy had to be.. released, preferably on the enemy. which probably came in the form of a massive psychic blast or a psychic vomit.

You got the right idea. If you look closely at the model, you see the gretchin using chains to point the weird boy in the right direction, it's not like the ork have any control over what the weird boy is doing beyond that.

They could add some weird function that makes ork psychic powers more powerful when you peril, however, you only take a single mortal wound from it.

Or something.

Honestly, I would be glad if they would just fix the psychic powers which currently aren't so hot and add "overcharge" abilities like you see on visions or da krunch to more of them, rewarding you for taking risks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beardedragon wrote:
Its almost mandatory at this point to spend 1 CP on warphead if you run a weirdboy.

I agree on that, warp head should just go back to being a points upgrade like master librarian.

Two denies though? That's pretty much reserved for master tier psykers. You have got to accept that orks are going to be weaker in some areas than other armies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/07 07:43:18


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Jidmah while the farseer should be better than the ork wierdboy it should also reflect it in the points. a wierdboy imo is not really worth the 75 points and a farseer is a bargin at 115. that said simply removing the wierdboy gettign a perils on a 12+ would probably imo make it more in line.

farseer has a 4++, can cast and deny 2 powers and has a weapon that always wounds on a 2+ heck for some reason they even have one more wound than the wierdboy. the farseer getting to reroll one or both dice is amazing as is the ork +3 but i find my wierdboys die to perils more often than not

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Do we miss the days of indirect sniper fire? Good ol' eliminators.

Weirdboys definitely need a boost of some kind. Cast 1, deny 1, and basically just blow themselves up if you actually cast a lot of powers.

Can definitely be awkward to use. I get fluff but they gotta rein in some of the blowing up stuff if they want us to actually cast psychic powers after it takes a wound.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 G00fySmiley wrote:
Jidmah while the farseer should be better than the ork wierdboy it should also reflect it in the points. a wierdboy imo is not really worth the 75 points and a farseer is a bargin at 115. that said simply removing the wierdboy gettign a perils on a 12+ would probably imo make it more in line.

farseer has a 4++, can cast and deny 2 powers and has a weapon that always wounds on a 2+ heck for some reason they even have one more wound than the wierdboy. the farseer getting to reroll one or both dice is amazing as is the ork +3 but i find my wierdboys die to perils more often than not


Can't argue with that. I think 75 points is legacy from an edition past when everyone was spamming smite and could bring 9 weird boyz. It could probably drop to 50 without breaking anything, and 20 points for the warphead.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

two denies? oh well one deny then. I was under the impression that those with 2 spells to cast could usually deny 2 abilities as well.

My bad

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Beardedragon wrote:
two denies? oh well one deny then. I was under the impression that those with 2 spells to cast could usually deny 2 abilities as well.

My bad


Nah, when you search wahapedia for "deny two" almost everything that pops up are named characters. Only very few generic psykers can do that, and most of them are from armies with strong psykers.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

cody.d. wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
Glasshammer and explosively unreliable do feel like the proper archetype for an ork psyker. I wouldn't be surprised if the weirdboyz don't change much in the new edition. They are decent enough as is IMO.


they should have 2 psychic powers and be able to deny 2 psychic powers by standard. Many factions have several psykers so they dont need to care, but we usually only run one psyker so we do care. Its almost mandatory at this point to spend 1 CP on warphead if you run a weirdboy.

Their rooster of spells is also terrible. They dont even have a "click and damage" psychic power targeting a single person, they only have things that are good against large units, as well as smite that we also cant target. For an ork psyker meant to spill psychic vomit on people, they sure dont do a lot of damage. They should have more offensive spells that does damage.


I'm not sure if i'd call the ork spell list terrible. 3 of our spells will find uses in many, many lists. A reposition spell, a unit buff spell and a character buff spell. All of which very good. The Klan spells added in later were also fairly good, like good enough to shape a battle plan good.

In all likelihood the warphead will become a points upgrade, maybe we'll get lucky and the base weirdboy will get a bit cheaper, who knows. Hopefully Roar of gork will be dropped and get the direct damage spell you mentioned, I can't disagree that eadbanger and krunch are just too situational to be of use. Not sure if I ever cast either to be honest. But overall I'd still call the spell list good to great, every spell list gets a few stinkers.



True. terrible is a big word but next to warpath, da jump and fist of gork, the rest are usually not picked in competitive games. Visions in da smoke is great but locked behind a faction, same for maniacle seizures (or how ever the F you spell it), and i guess gleaming armor has uses (if you wanted to play bad moon that is).

If these abilities werent clan locked i'd be more interesting. But im still a bit bothered that Ork psykers are such support units rather than what they're meant to be in the lore. Psychic bombardment units is what they were meant to be. What happened to the mortal wounds? where is our damage spells? I feel like ork psykers should have a focus on damage daeling abilities more than support abilities. Of course i dont mind having support abilities if they were interesting and updated, but it fits more with the lore that they would have more damage abilities, and less support abilities. Da Krunch seem to be a good ability but only usable versus horde factions, which i rarely face off against. It has a charge value of 8 though, which is steep if you dont run several boys and when you do that, you start entering the murky waters of increased peril chance. I suppose thats how its meant to be but still.

Also whats up with bullcharge? Why does it give you a minimum of 7? Why not just add 2 to your charge or something. How often do you fail 2inch charges as orks? Adding 2" to your charge would be amazing. getting a minimum of 7 when you are already on average rolling 8, is kind of meh.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/07 15:06:06


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Bull charge is a great power. You are removing luck from a 7 inch charge. It also ignores stuff like woods, which add -2" to a charge, and there are various other debuffs addable by armies (like Deathguard, Custodes...).

Overall though the psychic trees of Orks just don't compare to other armies. Whether or not you think they should, Da Jump is really the primary clutch power. Warpath is usually not needed (Orks get plenty of attacks), Fists is overkill again (we get plenty of attacks on characters we care about now with stuff like Boss bike +1A, Da Biggest boss +1A).

The clan specific powers are super niche. Like visions is great... but it'd be nice if I could get it on Deathskulls, not evil suns, which are generally a CC focused army, not a shooting one.

Maniacal is solid although sticking your weirdboy close to the enemy is a recipe for it to get sniped. And a lot of deathskull armies are mech, not infantry based, so it's an unreliable cast.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 15:29:40


 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

tulun wrote:
Bull charge is a great power. You are removing luck from a 7 inch charge. It also ignores stuff like woods, which add -2" to a charge, and there are various other debuffs addable by armies (like Deathguard, Custodes...).

Overall though the psychic trees of Orks just don't compare to other armies. Whether or not you think they should, Da Jump is really the primary clutch power. Warpath is usually not needed (Orks get plenty of attacks), Fists is overkill again (we get plenty of attacks on characters we care about now with stuff like Boss bike +1A, Da Biggest boss +1A).

The clan specific powers are super niche. Like visions is great... but it'd be nice if I could get it on Deathskulls, not evil suns, which are generally a CC focused army, not a shooting one.

Maniacal is solid although sticking your weirdboy close to the enemy is a recipe for it to get sniped. And a lot of deathskull armies are mech, not infantry based, so it's an unreliable cast.


i would absolutely love it if visions was in the deathskulls rooster. It always felt out of place for me on evil sunz.

But i dont think Bull Charge is a great power. Ive never used it, and ive failed only a very very small amount of 7 inch charges. Sure its horrific when it happens, but with the free reroll of one or all die cast, its usually never a problem.

Thats why i would prefer to just get +2" to my charge instead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/07 15:55:29


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Beardedragon wrote:

But i dont think Bull Charge is a great power. Ive never used it, and ive failed only a very very small amount of 7 inch charges. Sure its horrific when it happens, but with the free reroll of one or all die cast, its usually never a problem.

Thats why i would prefer to just get +2" to my charge instead.


Don' t let your selective memory mess the statistic. Bull Charge in greentide list is great to charge over the Difficult Ground giving you +2 to charge. This is 9” charge and we everybody knows, how tricky such charge is.

And if you have a right 9th ed terraint, there will be a difficult ground in the way for your 30 boyz squad pretty sure once a game at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw. are you also such lazy to think about new secondaries, because we will have to do i again in 4-6 weeks because of the new codex? I've read it today and mehhhh…. I'm too lazy to think about the new tricks because of month or two… there will be holidays meanwhile… pfff

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 16:36:16


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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




+2" charge is better ofc, especially with deep strikers. But it doesn't mean bull charge is *bad*.

At least it niches well in the popular Goff list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 17:00:52


 
   
Made in gb
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver






I think the issue with our 'bad' powers is more that they're just kind of redundant due to baked in stuff the faction already has. A guaranteed 7" charge sounds awesome and would probably be scooped in in other factions, but we're probably charging a minimum of 8" already. Same as Warpath, we've already been awesome at drowning things in dice and often more attacks is overkill.


As far as secondaries go, I'm not bothering to look at those or make any changes to my list until the new book is out. I'm in a lull as far as games go, so I'm not going to faff about with it. Except Kill Tanks, I'm scheming about Kill Tanks again.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Vineheart01 wrote:
BUT, most people wont have the ideal weapons to do that. they will still be kitted to deal with marines unless the boy swarm/snagga swarm becomes lethal.

Thats the whole reason boyz are even remotely viable right now, not enough guns to get through the wounds. At T5, now a 1/6th of those attacks suddenly failed up front. Unless theyre sporting multiple aggressor type rains of firepower, its enough to really be a problem.

Pretty much depends on how efficient they are priced. If theyre cheap enough the meta may shift to deal with them and theyre just "decent", but if it doesnt shift....fun fun time

Previously 1 squad of aggressors could easily wipe out multiple boy squads before they got anywhere, now they need help to do the same damage and generally aggressors are the only thing marines use for chaff clearing. And they dont spam them.
Technically the plasma flyboy gits (i always forget what theyre called) are chaff clearing because for some dumb reason they got blast on 2x 1d3 guns, but theyre also expensive enough where if theyre taking out boyz LOL


Last edition, 3 aggressors could fire 72 shots at BS3+ for 48 hits, 24 wounds and 20 dead boyz in 1 turn. Thats a 135pt unit killing 160pts of infantry in a single turn of shooting. Now after their nerf which according to a lot of Marine players on these forums made aggressors unplayable, those 3 aggressors are only capable of 36 shots, 24 hits, 12 wounds and 10 dead Orkz a turn, or a return on investment of 80pts in 1 shooting phase. Don't you wish our shooting units averaged a 60% return on investment every shooting phase without any buffs?

I played a tournament this week, didn't place sadly, but did go 2 Wins / 1 loss, and the only loss I had was against the guy who won the event and was running Dark Eldar, Ynnari and Eldar. In all 3 games, my opponents had the tools to utterly destroy 30-60 boyz a turn with little effort. And this was despite the fact that all 3 lists had significantly more anti-tank weapons than anti-infantry. Hell, one game my opponent had 30 infantry with S5 weaponry, everything else was S6+.

Key points from that tournament were that
1: Boyz have no durability in this current meta even when they face anti-tank lists just because of how piss poor they have aged between 7th and 9th. Going up 33% in price but gaining basically zero durability and only gaining what? DDD and Base S4 instead of just on the charge? If a boyz list wins its because hes somehow overwhelming his opponents weapons. If they get the T5 bonus and no price increase, they won't break the meta, they will just become harder to shift and will likely see more competitive play but not broken like how i spent 10 years seeing like 2 Dark Eldar Players but we had 4 at this tournament i just went to

and

2: Orkz bounce off most targets. I was able to get Boyz into combat with a T7 2+ save vehicle at borderline full strength, Even if you magically get all 30 boyz into CC and into range to swing you get 120 attacks (which sounds like a lot until you think of how broken some shooting units have become) Those 120 attacks equal 80 hits, and against T5+ that is only 26 wounds. Against a 3+ thats 9ish wounds, against 2+ its 4ish. Giving Orkz -1AP is great, but it won't do much in the current meta because everyone has great saves, invuln saves, FNP saves or a mechanic which ignores the first AP of weapons. If you somehow get a mob of boyz into CC it should be devastating, not lackluster. Against a Squad of bog standard Marine Tacticals you are likely only getting 15-20 boyz into CC, but even again at 30 its 120 attacks, 80 hits, 40 wounds and 13 dmg which turns into 6.5 dead Marines. THAT IS IT! 240pts of Close combat troops manage to kill 117ish pts of Tac Marines. That -1AP turns that into 10 Dead Marines which is a lot closer to what it should be.

With all of that said, unless ork boyz are getting even more buffs that haven't been leaked yet, I just don't see a reason for them to go up any points. The problem being is that I have seen in several different forums and groups, players theorizing that Boyz have to be anywhere from 10-15ppm with the buffs they are receiving. I am legitimately worried GW will screw the points up and ruin boyz for anywhere from the 2 week (I think?) FAQ quick fix to 1 year.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
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Danmark

tulun wrote:
+2" charge is better ofc, especially with deep strikers. But it doesn't mean bull charge is *bad*.

At least it niches well in the popular Goff list.


well. ive never used it, and have never had use for it. When using my goff army of 90 boys i find it better to use warpath and da jump. I can always throw Warpath on my Mega Nobz before throwing those guys in instead of boys if i want to.

But again, in my last 5 games i can maybe recall failing 1 7 or below inch charge, which was my warboss on warbike needing a 6 to get in range of a knight.

Which sucked a lot. (and it was a deathskulls army) But i feel like i get a lot more value out of warpath whether i throw it on boys or my favorite, on Mega Nobz doesnt matter. Bullcharge seems situational, +1 attack seem to be good value to me. The sheer amount of hits if you throw it on a group of boyz will make them even dangerous to T8 models when you wound on 5s with skarboyz.

Edit: i did actually fail a charge 2 matches ago as well but i think i needed an 8 back then. Bull Charge would be better value and something id consider taking if it was a guaranteed 8" charge, not 7. 7 seems too low to me. I do see the value of it, but i dont see why i wouldnt go for warpath instead. but then again, ive never really played competitively as ive only played warhammer with 2k armies for like 9 months

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/06/07 19:54:04


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in gb
Yellin' Yoof




United Kingdom

 Jidmah wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
Jidmah while the farseer should be better than the ork wierdboy it should also reflect it in the points. a wierdboy imo is not really worth the 75 points and a farseer is a bargin at 115. that said simply removing the wierdboy gettign a perils on a 12+ would probably imo make it more in line.

farseer has a 4++, can cast and deny 2 powers and has a weapon that always wounds on a 2+ heck for some reason they even have one more wound than the wierdboy. the farseer getting to reroll one or both dice is amazing as is the ork +3 but i find my wierdboys die to perils more often than not


Can't argue with that. I think 75 points is legacy from an edition past when everyone was spamming smite and could bring 9 weird boyz. It could probably drop to 50 without breaking anything, and 20 points for the warphead.


i agree, but personally i would prefer the cost of the pain boy to drop aswell, weirdboy + painboy to heal the perils costs 140 - thats way too much to be anything other than a niche tactic- especially when you consider it might kill the weirdboy on a 1.
the combined painboy/weirdboy combo should be equivalent to a farseer cost at most

SMASH  
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





I dunno, I think visions suits evil sunz. For a faction obsessed with going fast it would make sense if vehicles have almost a holy connotation for them. Seizures is a great spell because it works with so much of the ork roster. I adore using it with my Killtank list because it improves the dakka version and makes the CCWs a bit more threatening. Often the -1 to hit the enemy suffers is just a nice piece of icing on the cake. And it doesn't need LOS which is pretty sweet in a lotta cases.

Secondaries will be interesting. They could be dumb and useless, they could utilize grots a bunch, they could be damn near auto take because GW didn't think them through. Still wish our box/book thing came out with the cadians, feels like that week's preorders is a bit thin.
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





Beardedragon wrote:
But i dont think Bull Charge is a great power. Ive never used it, and ive failed only a very very small amount of 7 inch charges. Sure its horrific when it happens, but with the free reroll of one or all die cast, its usually never a problem.


Well it's about 15% times or so you fail that.

But the groovy part is you ignore the difficult terrain then. And decent board has some of that around as well. 9" chage is much more failable. 42% to be more accurate.

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Maniacal Seizures is extremely powerful, but unreliable. If it's going to stay and trukk/wagon boyz lists become good for deathskulls it may be devastating.

At the moment it's fun to play but it doesn't work everytime so it's best for casual games.

Bull Charge is a solid alternative to Warpath or Da Jump in goffs greentides. I don't play goffs, but personally I'd choose Bull Charge and Warpath for a goff warphead. Da Jump in my experience it's become too easy to counter with the smaller but more "terrain dense" board, and always had little value after turn 2 anyway.


 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

tneva82 wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
But i dont think Bull Charge is a great power. Ive never used it, and ive failed only a very very small amount of 7 inch charges. Sure its horrific when it happens, but with the free reroll of one or all die cast, its usually never a problem.


Well it's about 15% times or so you fail that.

But the groovy part is you ignore the difficult terrain then. And decent board has some of that around as well. 9" chage is much more failable. 42% to be more accurate.


that is true, and i think part of the reason i dont give a damn about bull charge is exactly that my group tends to rarely play with large craters that would give me minus to my move or charge. Sure there can be pipes and such but i tend to be able to sling shot my blobs around that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
Maniacal Seizures is extremely powerful, but unreliable. If it's going to stay and trukk/wagon boyz lists become good for deathskulls it may be devastating.

At the moment it's fun to play but it doesn't work everytime so it's best for casual games.

Bull Charge is a solid alternative to Warpath or Da Jump in goffs greentides. I don't play goffs, but personally I'd choose Bull Charge and Warpath for a goff warphead. Da Jump in my experience it's become too easy to counter with the smaller but more "terrain dense" board, and always had little value after turn 2 anyway.


i play Goff hordes often. Da Jump is invaluable for me. Sure there are many times where da jump is less useful but for 90 boys and a bunch of Mega Nobz with Mek Gunz, it seems like a really really good mobility tool even if its just for reaching an objective. But mostly its to set up charges on turn 1 if i see an opening that makes sense.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 11:10:21


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




The reason warpath is sort of meh in Goff tide lists is that the Goff units you're taking already get so many attacks.

Like, Skarboys will have 3, 4 at 20+, and 5 with ghaz, with exploding 6s, and re-rolling 1s. Warpath is just overload. To keep this in mind, every 2nd boy adds an attack with exploding 6s basically (so 30 boys is already +15 attacks, assuming all get to attack).

Mega Nobs are in a similar situation -- 4 base attacks, 5 with ghaz nearby, exploding 6s, re-roll 1s.

1 extra attack on ghaz or whatever is fine but not really that clutch.

Keep in mind for bull charge it's a 7 on the die.. which technically is an 8.00000000" charge, as you succeed if you end up within 1". So if you get your models within 8" charge of any unit, regardless of strats, terrain, spells on them, they make it.

Movement wins games more so than making your already high attack numbers even bigger.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

tulun wrote:
The reason warpath is sort of meh in Goff tide lists is that the Goff units you're taking already get so many attacks.

Like, Skarboys will have 3, 4 at 20+, and 5 with ghaz, with exploding 6s, and re-rolling 1s. Warpath is just overload. To keep this in mind, every 2nd boy adds an attack with exploding 6s basically (so 30 boys is already +15 attacks, assuming all get to attack).

Mega Nobs are in a similar situation -- 4 base attacks, 5 with ghaz nearby, exploding 6s, re-roll 1s.

1 extra attack on ghaz or whatever is fine but not really that clutch.

Keep in mind for bull charge it's a 7 on the die.. which technically is an 8.00000000" charge, as you succeed if you end up within 1". So if you get your models within 8" charge of any unit, regardless of strats, terrain, spells on them, they make it.

Movement wins games more so than making your already high attack numbers even bigger.


But ghaz moves around in one part of the map, not the entire part. So the Boyz on the left side, when ghaz is on the right side wouldnt be buffed by ghaz. Unless im meant to slam my entire army down one side? Ive been fighting against thousand sons for some time, with 3 defilers and a lot of trickery, and rather often, using warpath on my killsaw mega nobz (4 of them) that +1 attack is great for dealing with said defilers and they managed to wreck magnus in one turn due to poor positioning from my opponents side. giving +1 to my boys when they charge at a defiler also kind of turns them in to a soft anti T8 unit as well as ive taken off half the wounds of a defiler. It felt like warpath did me good in such situations.

And 7 on the die as i see it, isnt technically an 8" charge, as if that was the case, any deepstrikes would only need 8. you need more than 7 to get an 8 inch charge but i think i get your point.

But how do you guys use ghaz goff hordes? When i use ghaz, my Big mek with KFF tends to be my warlord, with Follow me ladz, so i have 2 characters that can advance and charge boys. Then Ghaz is followed by 60 boys, painboy and weirdboy and usually 4 out of my 8 mega nobz. my Big mek with KFF , then advances and charges 4 mega nobz, and 30 boys. My big mek tends to be somewhat in the middle of the board of my deployment zone to begin with, so i can pay 3CP if i have to, to increase my KFF aura to 18 inches. it sometimes pays off, sometimes not. but then he just moves to the left and ghaz goes right.

I see that Mega Nobz do best by being focused near ghaz but im afraid of opening up my left side if i do that. theres nothing to deal with T8 if all MANZ are on the right side. Except of course, for Mek Gunz.

Am i meant to focus Mek Gunz on the left side then instead? right now my Mek Gunz just focus on everything they can get their hands on thats a dangerous target, and screen out the backline from deepstrikes and holds objectives.

And of course mind you i dont usually play with -2 charges terrain so bull charge never was a thing i much really needed to worry about.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 18:09:33


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




No you're wrong on the charge.

Deep strikers have to be MORE than 9" away. That's why it's a 9.

so you are 9.0000001". If you were exactly 9 away, it would be an 8 on the die.
   
Made in us
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Sheridan, WY

Tulun is correct. An 8.00" charge requires an 7 on the dice. A 8.01" charge requires a 8 on the dice. Strategic reserves state that your units "cannot be set up within 9" of any enemy models." This means that your models must be set up 9.01" or more away from the enemy models. This makes it a 9" charge.

I also get a lot of use out of warpath in goff tide lists. Ghaz is not always around to buff, and you often can't get all 30 boyz into combat. Every attack counts, especially against 2+ saves and units that you need to finish off (necrons). As beardedragon also stated, it's also an amazing buff on meganobz. I also use it on nobz in my evil suns horde list when I da jump them in round 1.

Never in any situation would you waste warpath on Ghaz. If you find yourself in that situation more than once, you need to bring fists of gork instead.
   
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BDBurrow wrote:
Tulun is correct. An 8.00" charge requires an 7 on the dice. A 8.01" charge requires a 8 on the dice. Strategic reserves state that your units "cannot be set up within 9" of any enemy models." This means that your models must be set up 9.01" or more away from the enemy models. This makes it a 9" charge.

I also get a lot of use out of warpath in goff tide lists. Ghaz is not always around to buff, and you often can't get all 30 boyz into combat. Every attack counts, especially against 2+ saves and units that you need to finish off (necrons). As beardedragon also stated, it's also an amazing buff on meganobz. I also use it on nobz in my evil suns horde list when I da jump them in round 1.

Never in any situation would you waste warpath on Ghaz. If you find yourself in that situation more than once, you need to bring fists of gork instead.


it is amazing how difficult it is to explain that to people they will constantly deep strike 9 inches away then say they need an 8 inch charge. or in some cases set them up the walk over to measure and declare they have a 7 or so inch charge until I point out they deep struck that turn so cannot have been placed that closely then they will always pull the "ok i need an 8..." and you have to explain why its a 9 9.0001 minus 8 is still 1.0001 meaning it is not within an inch
   
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Danmark

tulun wrote:
No you're wrong on the charge.

Deep strikers have to be MORE than 9" away. That's why it's a 9.

so you are 9.0000001". If you were exactly 9 away, it would be an 8 on the die.


oh right. my bad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
BDBurrow wrote:
Tulun is correct. An 8.00" charge requires an 7 on the dice. A 8.01" charge requires a 8 on the dice. Strategic reserves state that your units "cannot be set up within 9" of any enemy models." This means that your models must be set up 9.01" or more away from the enemy models. This makes it a 9" charge.

I also get a lot of use out of warpath in goff tide lists. Ghaz is not always around to buff, and you often can't get all 30 boyz into combat. Every attack counts, especially against 2+ saves and units that you need to finish off (necrons). As beardedragon also stated, it's also an amazing buff on meganobz. I also use it on nobz in my evil suns horde list when I da jump them in round 1.

Never in any situation would you waste warpath on Ghaz. If you find yourself in that situation more than once, you need to bring fists of gork instead.


it is amazing how difficult it is to explain that to people they will constantly deep strike 9 inches away then say they need an 8 inch charge. or in some cases set them up the walk over to measure and declare they have a 7 or so inch charge until I point out they deep struck that turn so cannot have been placed that closely then they will always pull the "ok i need an 8..." and you have to explain why its a 9 9.0001 minus 8 is still 1.0001 meaning it is not within an inch


to be fair, it was only recently FAQ'ed that you need to measure the 9 inches horizontally when deepstriking. Meaning if you had a large building, 10 inches tall, you could deepstrike to the bottom. but doing so since you can hit 5 inches upwards, meant you wouldnt need a very large charge. essentially in such a case you only needed a 4 inch charge. technically speaking. So there actually were cases where you could deepstrike and need less than 9 inches to charge.

But they did FAQ that.

In my case i just forgot the actual wording, ive always gone by the idea, however, that i needed 9 inches and more to deepstrike.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 18:10:40


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




To clarify, warpath is not a bad power -- it just is a bit redundant on Goffs especially, who already have buckets of ways of generating more attacks via their clan trait, Ghaz, and re-roll 1s. It's better on non-Goffs as they have less ways of doing this.

If you're throwing skarboys into 2+ save models you're already just accepting the fact that bouncing off is probable. Warpath is not going to save you there.

If I were to take 1 weirdboy, it would typically be Da Jump + Clan power. If I were to take 2, it would be Da Jump + warpath (I'd rather redundancy on Da jump, as the weirdboy can't be everywhere).

Fists of gork is totally useless. Bad range, and I'd rather the utility of Warpath at the cost of pushing my already high attack characters. Like, a Biker boss already shreds and can fight on death after fighting (currently anyway).

But in the grand scheme of things of the 3 popular clans, I'd rate da jump and their clan psychic all higher than warpath.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 18:30:24


 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Warpath is only worth it on meganobz in addition to the +1 damage strat. It is NOT a good spell. I agree with tulun, we just have da jump and klan specifics. The rest just ranges from bad to meh

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Danmark

Well. as i said, ive been fighting a lot of Thousand sons as of lately, with 3 defilers, some rubric marines, tons of terminators and some daemons + magnus.

I cant really avoid hitting enemies with a save value of +2 except for maybe the daemons and defilers that has a save value of 3 i believe. both rubric and terminators will have a save value of +2.
Especially because of the 'all is dust' ability they have.
So Warpath adding those extra attacks does help me.

And as im not sure how you get the ghaz buffs on the boyz on the left side, if he's on the right side. I play against a lot of high save value armies, like custodies, Thousand Sons and death guard, so maybe thats why i want those extra attacks.

they help me out. Sure if i fought craftworld it might be completely redundant, but against the meta i face off against the extra attacks sure help.

And to clarify, i use warpath mainly on Mega Nobz, not Boys. But it does depend alot on what i want to do during my turn. Sometimes if im unsure if my boys will be able to fully kill the enemy then ill throw warpath on those. Due to casting ranges, its easier for my weirdboy to put warpath on units than it is for Ghaz to do the same. So i can buff my hordes even if ghaz isnt near them i find that to be a decent thing to be able to do.

I understand you guys points that it might be excessive, like if you fight eldar and such, why would i need more attacks? I guess a lot of armies you could face, that +1 attack might be completely redundant actually.
But against armies that has a lot of defensive abilities or high save values, which for some reason i fight a lot, i find it to be a good pick. warpath that is. +1 attack also means i can make longer congolines, since i need fewer people to tag the enemy to deal good damage. so in that sense, warpath aids in mobility. it frees up boys to be somewhere else and its not as important to get most boys in to combat. that leaves the rest for screening or, yea.. congolines.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 20:19:14


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Yeah warpath on a large mob of meganobz is solid, no debate here
BTW I don’t know why but I have real high hopes for Mega nobz in the next codex. I hope we will be able to give them some durability

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
 
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