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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sheridan, WY

tulun wrote:
Fists of gork is totally useless. Bad range, and I'd rather the utility of Warpath at the cost of pushing my already high attack characters. Like, a Biker boss already shreds and can fight on death after fighting (currently anyway).


I like fists of gork on unbracketed Ghaz (5 attacks) and the big mek in MA (4 attacks). Honestly it takes the BMMA w/ killa klaw from *underwhelming* to *holy gak batman* level. Ghaz pretty easily gets locked into combat without it.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 addnid wrote:
Yeah warpath on a large mob of meganobz is solid, no debate here
BTW I don’t know why but I have real high hopes for Mega nobz in the next codex. I hope we will be able to give them some durability


T5 at the very least is going to help against all the S8 damage weapons flying everywhere. Hopefully we can get cybork bodies back for them or some type of defensive strat to back that even further.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

 addnid wrote:
Yeah warpath on a large mob of meganobz is solid, no debate here
BTW I don’t know why but I have real high hopes for Mega nobz in the next codex. I hope we will be able to give them some durability


For sure. I really want them to get that +1 wound and a movement of 5.

So i wrote a lot of bs but its kind of what ever. the point is, agree, i hope they get buffed.

Mega Nobz as a unit is great, and i want them to remain great

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 21:01:13


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





tulun wrote:


Fists of gork is totally useless. Bad range, and I'd rather the utility of Warpath at the cost of pushing my already high attack characters. Like, a Biker boss already shreds and can fight on death after fighting (currently anyway).



It's a bit niche, but it's by no means useless. It is fantastic for pushing your heavy hitter characters into the realm of one shotting a knight. Though I am sad that 9th changed the math order to, well, proper math order. Before, wounding a knight on 2s with re-rolls was just wonderful.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Warpath is a cool power, and in a lot of armies would be amazing, but with orkz its somewhat redundant. Its either not needed (overkill) or needing to be more impactful. Assuming you get all 30 boyz into CC with a target it adds 30 attacks! Sounds amazing, but what is that target?

If its a T8 vehicle with a 3+ save those 30 attacks become 1.1 extra dmg. if its a T4 model with a 4+ save it becomes 5dmg. So against that T8 vehicle it serves little purpose, not that 1 extra dmg can't be impactful, just saying its unlikely you even get that thanks to the shortened engagement range. Against the T4 target its 5 extra dmg, which sounds amazing....but you already had 120 attacks which was doing 20dmg. There aren't that many units in the game which are T4 4+ that can survive 20dmg, usually 10 finishes them off. Granted, with the new AP-1 it might see an even bigger use since now its 30 extra S4 -1AP attacks.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Warpath on a 30 man blob means 10ish more attacks since 10ish boyz would actually get the chance to fight. And 10ish attacks at WS3+ S4 no ap aren't really boosting the boyz unit.

Fists of gork on a warboss/Ghaz is pretty good instead as the extra punch can make the difference if the character is fighting against something tough to kill. In a greentide warboss/Ghaz and weirdboy would likely march very close to each other so power's range isn't an issue.


 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Fists of Gork will probably help the ork model bypass invuls or something in the next codex. Somethin to giv da humies and pointy ears a good ol crumpin ! Or perhaps work on a gorka/morkanaut, who knows

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 10:06:43


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




Fists of Gork being a source of mortals sounds saucy...
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sheridan, WY

A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?

Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

BDBurrow wrote:
A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?

Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.
It depends what you run them into.

Each attack does...

.30 damage to a GEQ
,11 damage to a MEQ
.06 damage to a TEQ
.07 damage to a Rhino or Gravis
.04 damage to a Knight

So you only need 34 attacks to kill a squad of GEQ. That's 10 Boys and a Nob-Warpath is overkill.
You need 90 attacks to kill a 5-man MEQ squad. Warpath may be the difference, but so can movement.
You need 270 attacks to kill a 5-man TEQ squad-you ain't doing that even WITH Warpath.
You need 149 attacks to kill a Rhino-so Warpath is the difference, if you get them all into combat.
You need 122 attacks to kill a 3-man Gravis squad.
And you need 324 attacks to bracket a Questoris Knight. Double that to kill it.
   
Made in gb
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver






BDBurrow wrote:
A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?

Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.


People love to exaggerate. If it doesn't decimate it's target instantly it bounces off and does nothing, and if it can't handle an entire gunline shooting at it for three turns then it's too squishy.

Warpath certainly has a place in non-Goffs lists, and certainly on units like nobs and MANz where you really want more of the higher quality attacks. The main issue is that with grots getting nerfed, the Goffs horde became more popular, and generally your Warpath target in those lists is a blob of boys that in most games won't need the extra attacks.

On another note, I would absolutely love to see Fists of Gork turning into melee mortal wounds output. That would be beyond sick.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






BDBurrow wrote:
A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?

Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.


Haha, I agree. Especially when only half the mob is left, warpath often the makes a difference. I honest haven't given bull charge a chance yet, I'm always leaving with warpath and fists of gork or da jump - usually depending on whether I bring MANz.
Warpath also works for some vehicles with high quality attacks like dreads, scrapjets or nauts or stack it with fists.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




To be fair most times warpath is the only other decent psychic power…The vast majority of psychic powers aren’t useful.
You have da jump which is decent at least 1-2 a game.
You have fist of gork which is rarely in range of the target who can use it.
You have the evil sun power which is only decent on a handful of vehicles, locked to evil suns and hard to cast.
And you have warpath which pairs well with boy blobs which is one of our strongest lists. I get that in most situations your talking about ~15 extra attacks but that’s the entire point of boy blobs weight of dice. It will also only get better with better choppas stats. Warpath followed by da jump was always a fun tactic too.

Most of this doesn’t matter right now though new codex is coming very soon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 14:20:41


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Afrodactyl wrote:
BDBurrow wrote:
A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?

Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.


People love to exaggerate. If it doesn't decimate it's target instantly it bounces off and does nothing, and if it can't handle an entire gunline shooting at it for three turns then it's too squishy.

Warpath certainly has a place in non-Goffs lists, and certainly on units like nobs and MANz where you really want more of the higher quality attacks. The main issue is that with grots getting nerfed, the Goffs horde became more popular, and generally your Warpath target in those lists is a blob of boys that in most games won't need the extra attacks.

On another note, I would absolutely love to see Fists of Gork turning into melee mortal wounds output. That would be beyond sick.


As Blackie pointed out, warpath is usually only 10-15 extra attacks because getting boyz into CC is fething hard. And, as JNAP pointed out, 10-15 extra attacks is
3-4 extra dead GEQ
1.1 to 1.55 extra dmg to a MEQ
0.6 to 0.9 extra dmg to a TEQ
Gravis 0.7 to 1.07 extra dmg to a Rhino
or 0.4 to 0.6 extra dmg to a Knight.

Its not so much exaggeration as its likely outcome and based on the games i've played, its like i said, either overkill (3-4 dead GEQ) or needs a hefty boost (1.1 to 1.55 dmg to a MEQ). I think it would be better if they made warpath into extra dmg or AP.

Using 10 boyz as an example. currently warpath gives you 10 extra attacks for a total of 40, 26.6 hits, and against T4 3+ thats 13.3 wounds for 4.4dmg, if it bumped attacks to D2 or AP-1 this would be the change, 30 attacks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 6.6dmg (D2) or 5dmg (AP-1)

Personally I like the idea of giving Warpath -1 AP to weapons. This gives boyz AP-2 now on their weapons which happily goes around stormshield benefits making elite Marine units 4+ save instead of 3+ AND goes well against the "Ignore first AP" rule that has been becoming a thing in armies recently.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sheridan, WY

If those boyz survive to your opponent's fight phase, they will fight first assuming they weren't charged meaning you get the additional attacks twice. If you get stuck in, they'd get the extra attacks three times. These are all possible scenarios. Even if you don't kill off the unit, doing more damage to them helps reduce the incoming damage to the boyz. An extra attack (or two or three) for your killsaw nob is also nice, and not something you're factoring into those numbers. It seems like it's about a 50/50 chance whether or not I get UGT off these days. It's just too easy to wipe a unit of boyz. They need all the help they can get.

All this math is great and all, but more attacks for a unit that relies on having a ton of attacks is always a good thing. In my match yesterday, I rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 2 hits. Then the next unit rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 15 hits. Point being, those extra 10 to 30 attacks on average will only add 25% to your total damage, but sometimes it could be a 50% or 100% increase if the rolls previously were really bad. Or on the flip side it could result in no additional hits. Who the heck knows. More attacks = more damage inflicted = less damage taken = higher chance of UGT and possibly primary objective points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 18:06:11


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




BDBurrow wrote:
If those boyz survive to your opponent's fight phase, they will fight first assuming they weren't charged meaning you get the additional attacks twice. If you get stuck in, they'd get the extra attacks three times. These are all possible scenarios. Even if you don't kill off the unit, doing more damage to them helps reduce the incoming damage to the boyz. An extra attack (or two or three) for your killsaw nob is also nice, and not something you're factoring into those numbers. It seems like it's about a 50/50 chance whether or not I get UGT off these days. It's just too easy to wipe a unit of boyz. They need all the help they can get.

All this math is great and all, but more attacks for a unit that relies on having a ton of attacks is always a good thing. In my match yesterday, I rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 2 hits. Then the next unit rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 15 hits. Point being, those extra 10 to 30 attacks on average will only add 25% to your total damage, but sometimes it could be a 50% or 100% increase if the rolls previously were really bad. Or on the flip side it could result in no additional hits. Who the heck knows. More attacks = more damage inflicted = less damage taken = higher chance of UGT and possibly primary objective points.


Having played orkz for decades and had to suffer through GW pricing orkz based on THEORETICAL dmg rather than average I am more inclined to think along the lines of averages.

Based on the games i've played, boyz usually only get 1 round of attacks in CC because the following turn my opponent uses a stratagem of some kind to disengage from my boyz and than hose them down with firepower. At the tournament I went to on Saturday, in all 3 games I played, my opponent was able to extract his valuable units from CC using strats or abilities and leave behind his speed bump units. Getting that first round dmg in is more important in my opinion.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

each to their own but i love me a good combo of either warpath (for MANZ or boys blobs of 20+) or Fist of Gork if i dont run MANZ or any large blobs of boys.

And always da jump. I like it, and as Jidmah said, its great if you already have taken some losses, which orks are pretty good at doing, then warpath can make up for it.

I totally dig the idea of Mortal Wounds on the Fist of Gork ability though.

Its good that we go to T5 i think for boys, as boys arent good enough to warrent that 60 of them dies in one turn which isnt even difficult. They simply dont do enough carnage for it to be fair enough for how easily they are removed. Especially when considering that we dont really do well at ranged, so they're predominately a close combat unit.

Sure you dont need a lot of hits to kill termagants, guardsmen and eldar fire warriors due to their low toughness, but most things we hit dont have low toughness, and most things we hit, have a lot of attacks at range, that tends to destroy us before we even get there. Losing 500 points worth of boys just because some armies can pay 1 or 2CP to bring down the hammer of god in the shooting phase, never made sense to me. I never liked paying 500 points for 60 boys just for them to be decent in close combat only. which is why i only ever go for blobs of 90 boys when going goff, you buff them to the max there to make up for the fact they die in troves.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/09 21:33:37


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





 addnid wrote:
Fists of Gork will probably help the ork model bypass invuls or something in the next codex. Somethin to giv da humies and pointy ears a good ol crumpin ! Or perhaps work on a gorka/morkanaut, who knows


Okay hear me out, two separate spells. Fists of gork, fists of mork. Mork gives mortals on a certain roll, gork just gives more brutal buffs. And it's properly confusing like anything gork/mork should be.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Fist of gork (or possibly mork) and fist of Mork (or possibly gork)

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




cody.d. wrote:
 addnid wrote:
Fists of Gork will probably help the ork model bypass invuls or something in the next codex. Somethin to giv da humies and pointy ears a good ol crumpin ! Or perhaps work on a gorka/morkanaut, who knows


Okay hear me out, two separate spells. Fists of gork, fists of mork. Mork gives mortals on a certain roll, gork just gives more brutal buffs. And it's properly confusing like anything gork/mork should be.


This very well might be the best response i read today. I love it!

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Thoughts on new regular boys models?
[Thumb - Screenshot_1.png]


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sheridan, WY

Beardedragon wrote:
Thoughts on new regular boys models?


It's hard to tell, but looks like they could be new shoota boyz?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/10 21:35:22


 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

no idea! but i did see the picture and i thought: at least i havent seen those models before. but maybe one of you forum dwellers had seen the models before from an earlier edition.

They just look new to me. I wouldnt mind getting new boys models.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Oh nice... I've literally just finished painting 100 Boyz in a unified scheme and rebased everything though.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




North Carolina

Could they just be an alt weapon build for the beast snagga boyz? Seems the simplest answer to me.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





We honestly still don't know much about the snagga boyz. We got their profile yeah. But there is either alt loadouts or a special weapon in the released pictures so far. One model in the 20ork unit does have some sorta blunderbuss or heavy slug thrower.

Hopefully next week we get to see if Ere' we go or DX3 have changed in any way.
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Two in front seems to be normal shoota boyz. One with the shoulder pad. And the second one with pretty strange angle of the shoota. So either modification or some photo trick.

And the one in back is the snagga boy.

I don' t see any new boyz there….

Look, shootas looks like this and you can see both of them there https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/a2agmx/the_weekends_hobby_efforts_33_ork_shootas_down/

Maybe, the photo is mirrored. Or part of it, because there are two left-handed shootas on the photo but IRL one of them is right handed. So either conversion or photoshoped mirrored ork from somewehere else. The most front shoota seem very much like something like this.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/11 05:58:20


8000pt 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Tomsug wrote:
Two in front seems to be normal shoota boyz. One with the shoulder pad. And the second one with pretty strange angle of the shoota. So either modification or some photo trick.

And the one in back is the snagga boy.

I don' t see any new boyz there….

Look, shootas looks like this and you can see both of them there https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/a2agmx/the_weekends_hobby_efforts_33_ork_shootas_down/

Maybe, the photo is mirrored. Or part of it, because there are two left-handed shootas on the photo but IRL one of them is right handed. So either conversion or photoshoped mirrored ork from somewehere else. The most front shoota seem very much like something like this.


Definitely new models that still based the shoota designs on the current ones. Look at the stance (more upright), musculature (blockier, closer to the nob kit than the Boyz), and most importantly the crook in the elbow, most of the current shoota arms don't have that severe of an angle.
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Madjob wrote:
 Tomsug wrote:
Two in front seems to be normal shoota boyz. One with the shoulder pad. And the second one with pretty strange angle of the shoota. So either modification or some photo trick.

And the one in back is the snagga boy.

I don' t see any new boyz there….

Look, shootas looks like this and you can see both of them there https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/a2agmx/the_weekends_hobby_efforts_33_ork_shootas_down/

Maybe, the photo is mirrored. Or part of it, because there are two left-handed shootas on the photo but IRL one of them is right handed. So either conversion or photoshoped mirrored ork from somewehere else. The most front shoota seem very much like something like this.


Definitely new models that still based the shoota designs on the current ones. Look at the stance (more upright), musculature (blockier, closer to the nob kit than the Boyz), and most importantly the crook in the elbow, most of the current shoota arms don't have that severe of an angle.


Yeah, this is what I call “conversion”. Hard to say. Photo is too gakky. But the stance, neck and head of the front one is definitely an old boy. Maybe, it is a just a small face-lifted new edition. Or some “uprgade kit” with different spare parts like the Guardsman recieved. From business side of view, selling the upgrade kits everybody are buying anyway from third companies is a good way. Especialy in the situation, the most of the new models are monopose without alternative parts.

Or, the new boyz will be the same, just the monopose variation on the old models without the alternatove parts, just to screw people around I guess we ' ll see soon.

8000pt 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Yeah, I personally doubt they would update the Boyz kit at the same time they're releasing Snagga boyz. They would likely have been showcased already alongside the Beast Snaggaz during the new stat update for Orks that they showed recently.
   
 
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