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I don't read the Sisters of Battle stuff. It holds no interest to me, alongside of most of the Space Marines books.

The notable exception being Aaron Dembski-Bowden's stuff.

The Raven Guard Scout oriented novel coming out next year looks awesome to me though.

I like Sandy Mitchel, he can write a good book... if he can get it in his head to write Sisters in a positive light, and manage to do it, I think I might be able to enjoy it.

Necrosis wrote:@Slarg232 But the Emperor gives us rending bolters and 3+ invu saves and living saints.

But have you even considered what the Gods could give you? Inferno Bolts, FNP, and Daemon Princesses.

Slarg232 wrote:

Necrosis wrote:@Slarg232 But the Emperor gives us rending bolters and 3+ invu saves and living saints.

But have you even considered what the Gods could give you? Inferno Bolts, FNP, and Daemon Princesses.

I perfare Invu save over FNP. Rending bolters are better because you can kill terminators far easier then inferno bolts. I like living saints over Daemon Princesses cause a living saint just keep on going and going and going...

I just hope the plot doesn't involve a bunch of Sisters falling to Chaos and having to be defeated by the Sisters who are the protagonists. I also hope that Mitchell does a little better than the Cain books on this. I have to say that the best Sister story I've read was Daemonblood by Ben Counter.

Also, one of my Battle Sisters killed Abbadon by smacking him over the head with the butt of her boltgun.

I made her a Celestian as a reward.

Necrosis wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

Necrosis wrote:@Slarg232 But the Emperor gives us rending bolters and 3+ invu saves and living saints.

But have you even considered what the Gods could give you? Inferno Bolts, FNP, and Daemon Princesses.

I perfare Invu save over FNP. Rending bolters are better because you can kill terminators far easier then inferno bolts. I like living saints over Daemon Princesses cause a living saint just keep on going and going and going...

You, like every other goody to-shoe ever, Are making an uninformed opinion. You may think you don't like what Chaos has to offer, but that's only because you haven't seen them in action yet.

Join the Dark Side. We have cookies.

@Manchu- The first step to updating the Sisters is to realize that GW is moving away from unit specific special rules and moving towards USR's and a single Army wide special rule. I see AoF as the army wide rule with the various acts being re-written to convey standard USR's.
Something like:

Hand of the Emperor gives the unit Rending

The Passion gives the unit Furious Assault or Slow and Purposeful

Divine Guidance gives Preferred Enemy

Light of the emperor gives Fearless



Make Spirit of the Martyr a seperate act for Sisters leading non-Sisters units. This act requires the Sister to take the first wound allocated to the unit, but when she does both her and the unit will receive a 4+ inv save(Just an idea)

Sister leading these squads maybe could confer the Stubborn rule.


These last two are an attempt to integrate the Sisters with the armies they will be leading. Something I feel would be very important. I think that the avg. guardsman would look upon a Sister as if she were an angel come to life and would be inspired. With the Sisters spread out a bit more and the removal of SM allies then I can admit to seeing a GEQ level army with better than normal moral and equipment.

Melissia wrote:Also, one of my Battle Sisters killed Abbadon by smacking him over the head with the butt of her boltgun.

I made her a Celestian as a reward.

Thats cuz Abby is a pansy. I mean, seriously.

This is true, it took him thirteen black crusades just to work his way up to a draw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
focusedfire: I don't see any reason for any of your changes. They are arbitrary and make no sense.

Why make Hand of the Emperor rending, for example? That's what Divine Guidance does. Also, your change to Spirit of the Martyr is an unnecessary nerf, which I do not support.


Also no, they aren't moving away from unit special rules. What the hell makes you think that? There's PLENTY of said rules in fifth edition codices.

Melissia wrote:This is true, it took him thirteen black crusades just to work his way up to a draw.

I don't mean to brag, but I could have whooped the entire Empire in probably three. Sacrifices would have been made, and the gods would have had to have been appeased, but beleive me when I say that if the Brethren of Chains had been at the head of the crusades, The universe would be a different place.

Melissia wrote:This is true, it took him thirteen black crusades just to work his way up to a draw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
focusedfire: I don't see any reason for any of your changes. They are arbitrary and make no sense.

Why make Hand of the Emperor rending, for example? That's what Divine Guidance does. Also, your change to Spirit of the Martyr is an unnecessary nerf, which I do not support.


Also no, they aren't moving away from unit special rules. What the hell makes you think that? There's PLENTY of said rules in fifth edition codices.

Then we will have to agree to disagree. I will say that my veiw is based upon GW's current attempt to simplify/stream-line the game. Some units have retained funky older rules but most are being brought into line with the USR section. Now special abilities are different but even most of these work off of a universal rule as apposed to codex specific.

As to the changes, they were a logical progression, and shifting to fit the needs, of an expanded Sisters army that is actually inclusive of its non-sisters units instead of treating these units as disposable meat shields one and two. The Guard has the disposable meat shields, Sisters should be different.

As to why Emperors hand getting rending, Divine Might and Emperors Hand were both halves of the current rending rule because one just bumped AP while the other bumped Strength. I just combined them and did away with the I 1 penalty of giving the Sisters extra HtH oomph. Makes sense and is not arbitrary when you look at it from a 5th ed perspective.

They were a logical progression

I fail to see anything logical about them, even with your explanations (Which I didn't really buy). We indeed will have to agree to disagree...I'm goin' to bed. Ciao.

focusedfire wrote:
Then we will have to agree to disagree. I will say that my veiw is based upon GW's current attempt to simplify/stream-line the game. Some units have retained funky older rules but most are being brought into line with the USR section. Now special abilities are different but even most of these work off of a universal rule as apposed to codex specific.

As to the changes, they were a logical progression, and shifting to fit the needs, of an expanded Sisters army that is actually inclusive of its non-sisters units instead of treating these units as disposable meat shields one and two. The Guard has the disposable meat shields, Sisters should be different.

As to why Emperors hand getting rending, Divine Might and Emperors Hand were both halves of the current rending rule because one just bumped AP while the other bumped Strength. I just combined them and did away with the I 1 penalty of giving the Sisters extra HtH oomph. Makes sense and is not arbitrary when you look at it from a 5th ed perspective.

But you greatly nerfed Spirit. This is not acceptable.
Changing divine guidance into rending is fine, although some people might say its to over powered cause your average sister can now kill a rhino with a bolter.

@Necrosis-The reason for my changing Spirit, aside from updating to current GW design philosophy, is because I see the Sisters getting Sheilds and will not have as much need for the rule.

As to the rending, it can be balanced in the rules. Mind you, these were just quick ideas to convey a possible direction that expanded the Sisters sphere of influence on the battle field.

focusedfire wrote:@Necrosis-The reason for my changing Spirit, aside from updating to current GW design philosophy, is because I see the Sisters getting Sheilds and will not have as much need for the rule.

As to the rending, it can be balanced in the rules. Mind you, these were just quick ideas to convey a possible direction that expanded the Sisters sphere of influence on the battle field.

Well I have to disagree. Spirit is what allows sisters to be competitive. Also why do even have to streamline them? Orders aren't streamlined, psychic powers aren't streamlined, marks of chaos aren't streamlined.

Also lots of guardsmen are scarred of sisters.

Edit: Also getting sisters to work with other armies is taking a step in the wrong direction.

Necrosis wrote:Well I have to disagree. Spirit is what allows sisters to be competitive. Also why do even have to streamline them? Orders aren't streamlined, psychic powers aren't streamlined, marks of chaos aren't streamlined.

Also lots of guardsmen are scarred of sisters.

Edit: Also getting sisters to work with other armies is taking a step in the wrong direction.

Spirt is really better than, shields that grant a 3+ or even 4+ Inv all the time?

Orders are very much stream-lined when compared with the old doctrines set up. After a Game or two we all know what the orders are and what they do, much better than the 150 variations of useless that was doctrines where game time was doubled explainign why certain units had better stats or why this army doesn't follow the sam FOC.

As for the Choas codex, 1) it is not exactly a 5th ed 'dex, and 2) I'd say that a lot of the Chaos players would say that the codex got an over-abundance of stream-lining. Many favorite units got stream-lined into being useless.

Your not getting it, It is not about other armies. It is about the Sisters in a larger role being able to more effectively lead the units put under their command. These units are their army. The sisters occupy and perform special elite and leadership tasks while the faithful masses get there chance to prove their love of the emperor as troops.

focusedfire wrote:
Spirt is really better than, shields that grant a 3+ or even 4+ Inv all the time?

Orders are very much stream-lined when compared with the old doctrines set up. After a Game or two we all know what the orders are and what they do, much better than the 150 variations of useless that was doctrines where game time was doubled explainign why certain units had better stats or why this army doesn't follow the sam FOC.

As for the Choas codex, 1) it is not exactly a 5th ed 'dex, and 2) I'd say that a lot of the Chaos players would say that the codex got an over-abundance of stream-lining. Many favorite units got stream-lined into being useless.

Your not getting it, It is not about other armies. It is about the Sisters in a larger role being able to more effectively lead the units put under their command. These units are their army. The sisters occupy and perform special elite and leadership tasks while the faithful masses get there chance to prove their love of the emperor as troops.

Faith is well done system. All you have done is nerfed them.
I want to be able to spirit my basic troop choices instead of being force to pay points for shields.

As I said you taking a step in the wrong direction cause your trying to make sisters work with other armies which goes against the faith system and makes sister less of their own army.

What other armies? Where did I say other armies?

Are you just not getting the point or being intentionally obtuse be cause you don't want to think of any thing but a "Pure" Sisters force.

I hate to say it but a pure sisters force isn't pure. Between the assasins that no one wants to let go of, the cheap Storm trooper units that help you to field a proper nember of units, and priests that could really work well with the right repentia set up there is no pure force.

I am talking about uinits that would be in the codex but are not Adepta Sororitas. Units that would be in dire need of guidance that you don't want to give them.


As far as faith being a well done system, for those that are used to it maybe, for new people coming in it is overly complex and a barrier to getting the army.

Heck, even Melissa has redone the system in her fan-dex and she seems to be the most rabid purtitan ever to play the sisters.

focusedfire wrote:What other armies? Where did I say other armies?

Are you just not getting the point or being intentionally obtuse be cause you don't want to think of any thing but a "Pure" Sisters force.

I hate to say it but a pure sisters force isn't pure. Between the assasins that no one wants to let go of, the cheap Storm trooper units that help you to field a proper nember of units, and priests that could really work well with the right repentia set up there is no pure force.

I am talking about uinits that would be in the codex but are not Adepta Sororitas. Units that would be in dire need of guidance that you don't want to give them.

I don't want assassins, I don't want cheap storm troopers (many sisters player will agree). Priest are considered faithful when they join a faithful unit.

You still haven't dodge the point that all you have done is nerf any army that does not need a nerf.

Then what about the frateris militia? What about repentia's who are not faithful?

The point of this thread is how to expand the Sisters abilities. The force you are pushing for is overly specialized much like the Tau. In order to be able to face a broader range of opponents without getting your tail handed to you, it will be necessary to expand the structure to include units that you do not want.

focusedfire wrote:Then what about the frateris militia? What about repentia's who are not faithful?

The point of this thread is how to expand the Sisters abilities. The force you are pushing for is overly specialized much like the Tau. In order to be able to face a broader range of opponents without getting your tail handed to you, it will be necessary to expand the structure to include units that you do not want.

Repentias and Militia should not be able to use acts of faith hence why they are not faithful.
Taking those units also means you have less faith points to use since you should be using those points to buy another faithful unit.
If you want to expand the structure and them give sisters new units that are faithful instead of making radical changes to acts of faith which is one of the biggest appeals to this army.

And yet you still keep dodging my statement on how you Nerf Spirit for no reason.

Spirit is no nerf but a boost, was not dodging as much as not going to point out the obvious.

Abilities built into key units that are always on, are equal to or greater than, abilities that might not come on and draw from a limited pool of resources.

I never said you would have to buy the shielding, you assumed. Have faithful units always recieve the inv. Yeah, they may cost more but it leaves Martyrdom to become something that serves the emperor by inspiring the masses as opposed to being a selfserving power.

focusedfire wrote:Spirit is no nerf but a boost, was not dodging as much as not going to point out the obvious.

Abilities built into key units that are always on (are =&gt abilities that might not come on and draw from a limited pool of resources.

I never said you would have to buy the shielding, you assumed. Have faithful units always recieve the inv. Yeah, they may cost more but it leaves Martyrdom to become something that serves the emperor by inspiring the masses as opposed to being a selfserving power.

Why don't you tell your idea to other sister players and tell me how many like it?
I bet you most if not all sister players will hate it.

Tell me how is your spirit a boost? A 4+ invu save is a nerf not a boost.

Kanluwen wrote:Well then that tells you something about the army's concept, and why it probably hasn't been that big of a draw to begin with.

All metal minis and no support in supplemental materials (WD, Battle Missions, etc...) might also be contributing factors...

Valkyries are by no means new(and it's debatable that the Vendetta is

Because the vast majority of players are familiar with IA units... Please.

As for choice? Guard lost a ton of choice. I can no longer field my all Stormtrooper army because of it. I can no longer have Heavy Weapons Platoons in lieu of tanks either.

Vet squads can take carapace armor, and cost less (and are more effective!) than the all ST army from 3rd. And being able to attach HWS to Infantry Platoons allows you to take MORE HWS than the old platoon system did. You're flat wrong on that point-- the new IG codex is vastly more flexible and provides a ton more options than the previous one did.

How many times do you get to use Spirit on a unit?
What unit size is best?

What I proposed as only an idea, doesn't limit the squad size or make you use a one time piece of wargear in order to use the power on a full squad.

But yeah, Having an ability that is only usable after your unit is shot half off the board is much better than a passive always on ability and a new ability to shield the people your supposed to be protecting.


This back and forth is appearently going nowhere, I'll go off for a bit and come up with another 5th ed trend based idea for you to immediatley dismiss without thought. Until then, why don't you post some ideas that are in keeping with the OP's set parameters?

focusedfire wrote:How many times do you get to use Spirit on a unit?
What unit size is best?

What I proposed as only an idea, doesn't limit the squad size or make you use a one time piece of wargear in order to use the power on a full squad.

But yeah, Having an ability that is only usable after your unit is shot half off the board is much better than a passive always on ability and a new ability to shield the people your supposed to be protecting.


This back and forth is appearently going nowhere, I'll go off for a bit and come up with another 5th ed trend based idea for you to immediatley dismiss without thought. Until then, why don't you post some ideas that are in keeping with the OP's set parameters?

I already have, I have made an entire codex in the home brew section.

Also the canoness having a 2+ invu save is very nice, something I don't want to see go away and nor will many other sister players. You idea goes completely against the fluff which has remained the same since 2nd edition.

How does it go against Fluff?

The other acts were merely brought up to the 5th ed standard and were hardly changed but rather given their proper USR names.

The only thing that got changed was spirit. I adapted it because it wastes a faith point on units that would probably be equipped with sheilds or would passively produce a protective aura generated by their sheer holiness.

Shifting the ability to being a passive "always on" does nothing to your fluff.

Now expecting the sister to step up and martyr herself for a bunch of filthy human trash,I can see why you would resist martyring your self for such

focusedfire wrote:How does it go against Fluff?

The other acts were merely brought up to the 5th ed standard and were hardly changed but rather given their proper USR names.

The only thing that got changed was spirit. I adapted it because it wastes a faith point on units that would probably be equipped with sheilds or would produce a protective arua generated by their sheer holiness.

Shifting the ability to being a passive "always on" does nothing to your fluff.

Now expecting the sister to step up and martyr herself for a bunch of filthy human trash,I can see why you would resist martyring your self for such

Making acts of faith being used by non sisters goes against the fluff.
There are suppose to be small miracles that rarely happen and turn the tide of war. Not just some kind of normal special rule that makes you a bit better.

The act is used by a Faithful sister to protect her charges.

Also, She would still have to follow the rules for passing the test.

If you don't like this then put her at a negative on her test or just ignore this one point if is such an issue.