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2019/05/26 13:34:35
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Wow, they really stepped up their production values for that video. I wonder if that set (doesn't look like a green screen albeit I'm looking on a mobile device) will be a permanent addition.
2019/05/26 16:59:22
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Gael Knight wrote: The crappy CGI robots don't really add anything. I assume they were added in at the last minute. "How will they know it's the future if we don't have a flying thing".
We kind of know who Picard is because of TNG. I'm not sure what else can possibly be said. The films only really detracted from it all and I can't imagine this fairing any better.
The only thing I could perhaps see him being so broken about is losing his old crew, perhaps they are all in command of their own ships when Romulus is destroyed. I mean I hope that's explained better too. I'm salty that they are still going with JJ timeline.
I don't think its the JJ timeline. The destruction of Romulus happened in the "Prime" timeline. It's only an altered universe if Vulcan has not existed for hundreds of year before this series. That's how we'll know.
2019/05/31 22:00:35
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Gael Knight wrote: The crappy CGI robots don't really add anything. I assume they were added in at the last minute. "How will they know it's the future if we don't have a flying thing".
We kind of know who Picard is because of TNG. I'm not sure what else can possibly be said. The films only really detracted from it all and I can't imagine this fairing any better.
The only thing I could perhaps see him being so broken about is losing his old crew, perhaps they are all in command of their own ships when Romulus is destroyed. I mean I hope that's explained better too. I'm salty that they are still going with JJ timeline.
I am salty about that too Gael. They LITERALLY had a treasure trove, a freaking dragon hoard of golden lore laying at their footsteps after DS9/VOY rapped up, but instead have spent the better part of 18 years rehashing prequels to prequels. Playing cannon rearrangement with time travel and blowing their goo all over JJ Abrams gakky trilogy. I won't even mention the horror show that is STD.
2019/05/31 22:19:29
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Gael Knight wrote: The crappy CGI robots don't really add anything. I assume they were added in at the last minute. "How will they know it's the future if we don't have a flying thing".
We kind of know who Picard is because of TNG. I'm not sure what else can possibly be said. The films only really detracted from it all and I can't imagine this fairing any better.
The only thing I could perhaps see him being so broken about is losing his old crew, perhaps they are all in command of their own ships when Romulus is destroyed. I mean I hope that's explained better too. I'm salty that they are still going with JJ timeline.
I don't think its the JJ timeline. The destruction of Romulus happened in the "Prime" timeline. It's only an altered universe if Vulcan has not existed for hundreds of year before this series. That's how we'll know.
JJ timeline, Prime timeline, either way it's not the proper timeline. STD is stated as being Prime, which means Prime is not the setting that contained the shows & films that comprised Trek prior to the JJVerse(because even an Olympic level mental-gymnast will struggle to reconcile all this & more with Trek as-was). The idea of "Prime" is essentially an attempt to muddy the waters by creating a version of the original Trek setting that they can modify at-will while still pretending it's all part of the same continuity. Prime as a concept only exists because the JJVerse exists, so I think it's fair to view them as part & parcel.
The simplest way to tell is the uniforms - any depictions of the Picard time period prior to the JJVerse that I can recall used the All Good Things uniforms. This depiction uses a new design that's a hybrid of the Countdown comics(a JJVerse adjunct) and the Voyager/early-DS9 appearance.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2019/05/31 23:22:35
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Gael Knight wrote: The crappy CGI robots don't really add anything. I assume they were added in at the last minute. "How will they know it's the future if we don't have a flying thing".
We kind of know who Picard is because of TNG. I'm not sure what else can possibly be said. The films only really detracted from it all and I can't imagine this fairing any better.
The only thing I could perhaps see him being so broken about is losing his old crew, perhaps they are all in command of their own ships when Romulus is destroyed. I mean I hope that's explained better too. I'm salty that they are still going with JJ timeline.
I don't think its the JJ timeline. The destruction of Romulus happened in the "Prime" timeline. It's only an altered universe if Vulcan has not existed for hundreds of year before this series. That's how we'll know.
JJ timeline, Prime timeline, either way it's not the proper timeline. STD is stated as being Prime, which means Prime is not the setting that contained the shows & films that comprised Trek prior to the JJVerse(because even an Olympic level mental-gymnast will struggle to reconcile all this & more with Trek as-was). The idea of "Prime" is essentially an attempt to muddy the waters by creating a version of the original Trek setting that they can modify at-will while still pretending it's all part of the same continuity. Prime as a concept only exists because the JJVerse exists, so I think it's fair to view them as part & parcel.
The simplest way to tell is the uniforms - any depictions of the Picard time period prior to the JJVerse that I can recall used the All Good Things uniforms. This depiction uses a new design that's a hybrid of the Countdown comics(a JJVerse adjunct) and the Voyager/early-DS9 appearance.
I get that you don't like the newer Star Trek. I'm just saying in universe there's two timelines now and I think this new series is in the original Timeline. If your just using "JJVerse" as shorthand for new-crappy-trek then we're talking about two different things.
2019/05/31 23:38:45
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
You know, since the last time this came up I've done on/off research to hunt various things down, and in that something has occurred to me.
And as an early conclusion, I'd say CBS has really kind of brought the fan confusion and varied negative responses on themselves.
CBS doesn't really use the phrase "Prime Timeline" much. "Prime Universe" got coined in 2016 and that was said by one person from CBS as part of a blog post for Star Trek Online when STO did a crossover event around the time Beyond released that also identified the JJ films as belonging to the "Kelvin Timeline" which was also the only time that either phrase was ever uttered in any "official" capacity. And I'd add that even the phrases themselves originate in the fandom, Prime Timeline coming from the 09 films end credits (Identifying Nimoy's character as "Prime Spock") and the Kelvin Timeline coming from the USS Kelvin which has been assumed as the primary point of divergence in the timelines.
Other than that one instance, I find very few examples of people in CBS using the terms, and it's mostly fans who use it. In fact, the only usage of the term since then I can find is from Discovery where Philippa Georgiou uses the phrase "Prime Universe." Which... doesn't really amount to much? Alternate realities have been a thing in Star Trek since TOS, but continuity between them has never really be relevant "in-universe" and no episode or film has ever directly addressed the subject. CBS generally only even broaches the issue when fans ask, and it's usually vague answers without specific terms being used.
Because of the ambiguity, Memory Alpha doesn't have articles for "Prime Timeline" or "Kelvin Timeline" and only mentions the terms in development and background notes for relevant pages (Universe and Alternate Reality). You have to go to Memory Gamma (the fanon wiki, and everything basically goes there) to actually get a page for the term "Prime Universe."
The only conclusion I can reach is that CBS doesn't really care about canon has Star Trek fans have traditionally understood it. They approach each new entry in the series as a contained thing and only mention matters relating to continuity when addressing fan questions or controversy. Outside of that field, it seems like a non sequitur to them. They don't care, and seem unable to understand why anyone in the fandom cares (though perfectly able to tell that fans are unsatisfied).
The only conclusion I can reach is that there is little concern granted to continuity of canon because CBS doesn't care about continuity of canon. Which kind of begs why any of us should really debate which timeline/universe is which, when (to me at least) it seems really obvious CBS doesn't care about such things outside of trying to placate fan hate (and failing at it).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/31 23:42:03
@lordofhats. Once again, if Vulcan exists then we have confirmation of the two timelines regardless of the name. But yes, it’s possible the New show will never discuss Vulcan or be ambiguous about it.
Also, aside from having it written out in the credits in a movie and also spoken by a character in a show I’m not sure what else they can do to make it canon. As far as I know those are literally the two highest forms of canon in Trek.
2019/06/01 01:49:42
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
KamikazeCanuck wrote: @lordofhats. Once again, if Vulcan exists then we have confirmation of the two timelines regardless of the name. But yes, it’s possible the New show will never discuss Vulcan or be ambiguous about it.
I'm not saying they don't talk about these things.
I'm saying I think they just don't care about consistency and don't think consistency between entries is all that important. Compare for example the broader Transformers franchise, where various runs of merchandise and media are self-contained and rarely care what other runs say/did, but generally employ the same elements in story and characters. EDIT: I.E. The way fans have traditionally approached canon is meaningless to CBS, and CBS isn't approaching the franchise from that perspective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/01 01:55:14
Gael Knight wrote: The crappy CGI robots don't really add anything. I assume they were added in at the last minute. "How will they know it's the future if we don't have a flying thing".
We kind of know who Picard is because of TNG. I'm not sure what else can possibly be said. The films only really detracted from it all and I can't imagine this fairing any better.
The only thing I could perhaps see him being so broken about is losing his old crew, perhaps they are all in command of their own ships when Romulus is destroyed. I mean I hope that's explained better too. I'm salty that they are still going with JJ timeline.
I don't think its the JJ timeline. The destruction of Romulus happened in the "Prime" timeline. It's only an altered universe if Vulcan has not existed for hundreds of year before this series. That's how we'll know.
JJ timeline, Prime timeline, either way it's not the proper timeline. STD is stated as being Prime, which means Prime is not the setting that contained the shows & films that comprised Trek prior to the JJVerse(because even an Olympic level mental-gymnast will struggle to reconcile all this & more with Trek as-was). The idea of "Prime" is essentially an attempt to muddy the waters by creating a version of the original Trek setting that they can modify at-will while still pretending it's all part of the same continuity. Prime as a concept only exists because the JJVerse exists, so I think it's fair to view them as part & parcel.
The simplest way to tell is the uniforms - any depictions of the Picard time period prior to the JJVerse that I can recall used the All Good Things uniforms. This depiction uses a new design that's a hybrid of the Countdown comics(a JJVerse adjunct) and the Voyager/early-DS9 appearance.
I get that you don't like the newer Star Trek. I'm just saying in universe there's two timelines now and I think this new series is in the original Timeline. If your just using "JJVerse" as shorthand for new-crappy-trek then we're talking about two different things.
But what I am arguing is there are in fact at least three timelines/realities, because STD contains far too many conflicts with pre-JJ Trek to fit into the same world. And if Picard is supposed to share the same timeline as Discovery, then it necessarily can't be part of the same continuity as TNG, because Discovery isn't.
And LordofHats - that may be true, now. It was not true prior to JJTrek, in the sense that even when they fethed about with continuity(chiefly in Enterprise), they at least tried to get things lined up and squared away. Also, CBS modern lack of standards doesn't have any bearing on the validity of people's dislike for that lack.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2019/06/01 13:43:40
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Also, CBS modern lack of standards doesn't have any bearing on the validity of people's dislike for that lack.
I never said it did. I suggested, why should any of us waste time debating timelines when (maybe) there aren't canon timelines because CBS isn't bothering with that kind of canon?
And frankly I could still debate canon inconsistency and how overblown and fan whiny Discovery's are all day, but I just don't think it matters. I think CBS is approaching canon with a completely different angle and we'd all just be crying about spilled milk like babies. Really, all that should matter now is, does the writing suck? Discovery? Oh hell yes. It's god awful. I won't even bother with S3.
Picard? I am increasingly less hopeful with each new bit that comes out for it. The first reveals reminding me of Renegades and everything awful about it. The second just feels completely out of keeping with Picard's character. There was a reddit post I read somewhere where someone proposed Picard left Star Fleet because he feels responsible for the destruction of Romulus. All Good Things showed Romulus under Klingon control in 2395, so not destroyed in 2387, and that all the time foolery in that episode maybe leaves Picard feeling responsible for the planet's destruction and the deaths of billions. And that could be an interesting angle with a great tie into TNG, but that's also not the kind of writing we've seen from CBS.
About the only hope spot at all is Patrick Steward and the ardent wish that the man would never return to the character for a gakky script, but actors often have very different takes on a project than the viewing audience so...
The script Stewart read in preproduction and the shooting script might be as different as Sonak before he beamed aboard the Enterprise and Sonak after he beamed aboard the Enterprise.
While speaking with Vulture about a very different role- Charlie Manx on AMC’s horror miniseries NOS4A2– Quinto said he’d still like to go back to the Enterprise again.
It’s been a few years since we last saw you play Spock. Is Star Trek 4 in limbo? There were at one point reported to be multiple scripts in play.
Yeah, I think there were like three. I don’t know what’s happening with that, and I’m trying to figure out what, if anything, will be the future for it. I feel glad that the franchise is having its own life continuing on [with Star Trek: Discovery] and my hope is that we’ll also get to go back and play those roles again. But there’s no telling right now if it’ll happen or not.
doubt they can afford the cast now anyway TBH.
apparently Spiner/Data.someone ? might be in it, possibly as a guest star.
When Star Trek: Picard premieres later in 2019, one of the biggest Next Generation questions it could finally answer is whether B-4 ever finished his transformation into Data. The new CBS All-Access series starring Patrick Stewart as the iconic former Captain of the Starship Enterprise will be fans' first glimpse into the 24th century since Star Trek: Nemesis in 2002, the same film that introduced Data's mentally inferior android doppelganger.
Data was a core character of Star Trek: The Next Generation (arguably the second most important character after Picard himself) for its seven-season run on TV and its four movie spinoffs. Played by Brent Spiner, he was an android created by Dr. Noonien Soong along with a malevolent prior model named Lore, although the brilliant and eccentric cyberneticist also built three failed prototypes. B-4 (also played by Spiner) was one of those prototypes and not built with the sophisticated positronic brain that Lore and Data possessed. He was used as a spy by Shinzon, Praetor of the Romulan Empire and clone of Captain Jean-Luc Picard, and planted on the U.S.S. Enterprise-E. Prior to Data sacrificing himself to save his ship, he copied his memories into B-4, hoping that would help his android "brother" evolve; though B-4 couldn't assimilate Data's memories, by the end of the film, he was singing one of Data's favorite songs, hinting that the beloved character would one day re-emerge.
Star Trek: Picard will pick up the story roughly 15 years after the end of Star Trek: Nemesis and reintroduce the ex-Admiral Picard living a life markedly different from his legendary exploits as commander of the Enterprise. From the tantalizing tidbits offered in the Star Trek: Picard teaser, Jean-Luc is now retired at his family vineyard in La Barre, France after "the unimaginable" happened; that unimaginable appears to be the destruction of Romulus. While the new series will be focused on Picard and a new crew, fans are eager to know what happened to the rest of TNG's characters - including the fate of Data/B-4.
Technically, Star Trek has already provided an answer to what happened to B-4/Data in the 2009 comic book miniseries Star Trek: Countdown, which set up the first J.J. Abrams Star Trek movie. This revealed that Geordi La Forge installed Data's emotion chip to B-4's neural net, allowing his full personality to emerge. He was now Captain of the Enterprise. However, the countless ancillary Star Trek novels and comics aren't considered canon, and while Star Trek: Discovery has pulled from tie-in stories, that's no guarantee future TV or movie canon won't change it.
Will this be something Star Trek: Picard eventually resolves? Brent Spiner hasn't been linked to the show in any way; the only Next Generation alum besides Stewart involved is Jonathan Frakes, and that's only as an episode director. And if he were to appear - as B-4 or Data - Picard would have to accommodate the fact that the actor has aged (and no amount of makeup could hide that Data already looked significantly older in Star Trek: Nemesis). That said, it could be argued that, while Dr. Soong's android creations are technically supposed to be immortal, as B-4 was a prototype his exterior also ages (similar to Arnold Schwarzenegger in later Terminator films).
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2019/06/04 10:10:44
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
It's a pity in a way that Data was attempting to become more human - otherwise just wire his brain up to a starship, and have Brent Spiner just do the voice acting. No makeup or CGI required.
2019/06/18 11:42:27
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Alex Kurtman has been fired from Star trek allegedly due to bad pre screenings of Picard.
And the chief architect of Bad trek JJ abrahms is gone too, bad reboot are leaving with him and thus so are secret hideout in all likely hood, the best Star Trek news in a long time.
2019/06/18 12:11:03
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Alex Kurtman has been fired from Star trek allegedly due to bad pre screenings of Picard.
And the chief architect of Bad trek JJ abrahms is gone too, bad reboot are leaving with him and thus so are secret hideout in all likely hood, the best Star Trek news in a long time.
Do you have a link?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2019/06/18 12:40:48
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2019/06/18 13:33:47
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
It's a rumor reported initially by the Nerdrotic youtube channel supposedly from an inside source and repeated by the rest of the youtubers who aren't fans of STD. I'd take it with a grain of salt given that the anti-STD youtube creator community was reporting doom and gloom for months right up until the annoucnement of the renewal of STD for season 3. I'm no fan of the show but the source(s) that they all use/share hasn't been accurate.
2019/06/18 14:33:56
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
STD is trash but the hatedom that surrounds it is equally trashy.
Granted, removing Kurtman probably isn't the worst idea. I find JJ gets undeserved hate, but I've seen nothing worthwhile come out of Kurtman and the man seems inept in a lot of ways to manage a big project.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/18 14:35:26
LordofHats wrote: STD is trash but the hatedom that surrounds it is equally trashy.
Granted, removing Kurtman probably isn't the worst idea. I find JJ gets undeserved hate, but I've seen nothing worthwhile come out of Kurtman and the man seems inept in a lot of ways to manage a big project.
As someone who genuinely likes JJ Trek I wholeheartedly agree that the hate is undeserved. As a Transformers Fan that watched Kurtzman destroy a franchise I care a LOT about, I'm elated he's gone.
LordofHats wrote: STD is trash but the hatedom that surrounds it is equally trashy.
Granted, removing Kurtman probably isn't the worst idea. I find JJ gets undeserved hate, but I've seen nothing worthwhile come out of Kurtman and the man seems inept in a lot of ways to manage a big project.
So is this guy involved with Discovery - I realy enjoyed Season One and was very disapointed by Season 2, I also like the new ST films (far better than Next Gen) and love the first Transformers film.
Will him not being there change anything in Star Trek media-land?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Kurtman being (allegedly) gone is great news as it will hopefully mean JJ trek is dead, the alt universe etc. has ruined Star Trek for a long time now and the spillover into STD caused it to suck too.
Now with a bit of luck we may get a return to real Trek and a sequel to Voyager rather than yet another prequel no one wants or asked for.
2019/06/18 18:24:06
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
I'll believe he's gone when a press release says so.
As to who he is: Kurtzman is the guy who is the current executive producer for the Star Trek franchise, and has rightfully garnered a lot of hate imo for how he's handled criticism and development of STD. If he's gone, I can't see how it could make anything worse. One of those there's really nowhere to go but up kind of guys.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/18 18:24:45
Formosa wrote: Kurtman being (allegedly) gone is great news as it will hopefully mean JJ trek is dead, the alt universe etc. has ruined Star Trek for a long time now and the spillover into STD caused it to suck too.
Now with a bit of luck we may get a return to real Trek and a sequel to Voyager rather than yet another prequel no one wants or asked for.
Ughh who wants a sequal to Voyager - why?
Which of the previous shows/films would you say are "real" trek?"
Many of the series have good and bad stuff, I favour OS and DS9 being far superior to Next Gen, Voyager and Enterprise but you may feel the opposite?
I have not watched The Orvil but apparently many consider that more Trek than say STD?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
LordofHats wrote: I'll believe he's gone when a press release says so.
As to who he is: Kurtzman is the guy who is the current executive producer for the Star Trek franchise, and has rightfully garnered a lot of hate imo for how he's handled criticism and development of STD. If he's gone, I can't see how it could make anything worse. One of those there's really nowhere to go but up kind of guys.
Formosa wrote: Kurtman being (allegedly) gone is great news as it will hopefully mean JJ trek is dead, the alt universe etc. has ruined Star Trek for a long time now and the spillover into STD caused it to suck too.
Now with a bit of luck we may get a return to real Trek and a sequel to Voyager rather than yet another prequel no one wants or asked for.
Ughh who wants a sequal to Voyager - why?
Which of the previous shows/films would you say are "real" trek?"
Many of the series have good and bad stuff, I favour OS and DS9 being far superior to Next Gen, Voyager and Enterprise but you may feel the opposite?
I have not watched The Orvil but apparently many consider that more Trek than say STD?
Sorry I should have been much clearer, not a sequel to voyager, but a sequel to the voyager timeline, so continuing after voyager got home with some other crew.
As for real trek, everything up the the first "star trek" movie JJ made and created an alternate timeline to play with, if people like it, fair enough, the vast majority of star trek fans do not like it.
We Agree on OS and DS9 being far superior to next gen etc.
and yes a lot of people call it Star Trek Orvil, likely because so many trek writers work for the orville teams, dunno.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/18 19:31:03
