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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Even then I am willing to bet that bikes are core for Custodes, as they are explicitly mentioned for SMs. I bet this is more for things like Telemons, or the 3 Tanks and Trajann basecamp that was super prevelent in 8th. Also a issue where a HW would sit in the back and just give auras to a death ball of Heavy Artillery like Whirlwinds. I don't see this being a massive issue in 9th. This is a good change.

Agreed across the board.

What space marines get as core and what custodes will get as core I guarantee you will not match up or look generous on the custodes side

This is an amazing idea so far.

I think it won't hurt us regardless of what our core units are. All of our things hit on 2s, capped hit/wound modifiers mean we won't get -4s and such, where rerolls matter much. This primarily hurts high volume castles, like SM, especially mechanized ones. Repulsor Executioner is explicitly shown not to have CORE, so I imagine Troops and some select Elites and FA will get CORE.

I can not think of a scenario, in which this hurts us more than any other army, which now has a) lesser firepower, b) needs to substantially change tactics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Writing a list of 1000 points for a local tourney. What do you think?

Shadowkeepers Patrol
SCDJ (Eagle's Eye, Sup Crea)
4 Guardians (1 S&B)
3 Guardians (3 S&B)
5 Prosecutors + Rhino
Telemon Fist+Illiastus or Arachnus


Idea is to park the 3 sword and board guardians on a backfield obj, rush up with the rhino and shield cap for another, I can easily get hold more T2 if I start, or escalate with the SC if going 2nd.

So the disgusting news I heard out of my local GW store yesterday afternoon was that GW was personally writing the new FW rules, not just the book. They are completely pulling FW out of the rules process.

As we are the single most (Percentage wise) FW heavy faction on the table, we stand the most to lose from this, or the most to gain. If all powerfists get the same treatment across the board, look out Aquillons. If all the Flamers go to 12", bring on the Fisto-Telemons. If all the Melta weapons go to d6+2 in half range, bring on the melta guardians. That new FW book can't come fast enough.

KGYM wrote:
This is an amazing idea so far.

I think it won't hurt us regardless of what our core units are. All of our things hit on 2s, capped hit/wound modifiers mean we won't get -4s and such, where rerolls matter much. This primarily hurts high volume castles, like SM, especially mechanized ones. Repulsor Executioner is explicitly shown not to have CORE, so I imagine Troops and some select Elites and FA will get CORE.

I can not think of a scenario, in which this hurts us more than any other army, which now has a) lesser firepower, b) needs to substantially change tactics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Writing a list of 1000 points for a local tourney. What do you think?

Shadowkeepers Patrol
SCDJ (Eagle's Eye, Sup Crea)
4 Guardians (1 S&B)
3 Guardians (3 S&B)
5 Prosecutors + Rhino
Telemon Fist+Illiastus or Arachnus


Idea is to park the 3 sword and board guardians on a backfield obj, rush up with the rhino and shield cap for another, I can easily get hold more T2 if I start, or escalate with the SC if going 2nd.

Hey fella,

I dig the list!

One critical thing: Replace the Eagle's Eye with the Auric Aquilas - it gives the same 3++, as well as reroll charges Also, I strongly recommend paying 1 CP to give him the Unstoppable Destroyer trait from War of the Spider's Captain-Commander list.

Report back with how it goes

 dicerage wrote:

KGYM wrote:
This is an amazing idea so far.

I think it won't hurt us regardless of what our core units are. All of our things hit on 2s, capped hit/wound modifiers mean we won't get -4s and such, where rerolls matter much. This primarily hurts high volume castles, like SM, especially mechanized ones. Repulsor Executioner is explicitly shown not to have CORE, so I imagine Troops and some select Elites and FA will get CORE.

I can not think of a scenario, in which this hurts us more than any other army, which now has a) lesser firepower, b) needs to substantially change tactics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Writing a list of 1000 points for a local tourney. What do you think?

Shadowkeepers Patrol
SCDJ (Eagle's Eye, Sup Crea)
4 Guardians (1 S&B)
3 Guardians (3 S&B)
5 Prosecutors + Rhino
Telemon Fist+Illiastus or Arachnus


Idea is to park the 3 sword and board guardians on a backfield obj, rush up with the rhino and shield cap for another, I can easily get hold more T2 if I start, or escalate with the SC if going 2nd.

Hey fella,

I dig the list!

One critical thing: Replace the Eagle's Eye with the Auric Aquilas - it gives the same 3++, as well as reroll charges Also, I strongly recommend paying 1 CP to give him the Unstoppable Destroyer trait from War of the Spider's Captain-Commander list.

Report back with how it goes

Just remember, with Destroyer, you cannot consolidate out of combat if your opponent activates first (like by charging you) and then basing you. 9th does not allow consolidation movement of any kind for based models. Was a bit of a surprise when I had an opponent who couldn't escape because I had based him (just thoughtlessly on my part).

Audustum wrote:


Just remember, with Destroyer, you cannot consolidate out of combat if your opponent activates first (like by charging you) and then basing you. 9th does not allow consolidation movement of any kind for based models. Was a bit of a surprise when I had an opponent who couldn't escape because I had based him (just thoughtlessly on my part).

Could you expand on this?

The rule explicitly states that you don't have to 'end the [consolidation] move closer to the nearest enemy model'. This does not override the other rule?

Audustum wrote:


Just remember, with Destroyer, you cannot consolidate out of combat if your opponent activates first (like by charging you) and then basing you. 9th does not allow consolidation movement of any kind for based models. Was a bit of a surprise when I had an opponent who couldn't escape because I had based him (just thoughtlessly on my part).

Could you expand on this?

The rule explicitly states that you don't have to 'end the [consolidation] move closer to the nearest enemy model'. This does not override the other rule?

Quote from the BRB - digital version page 22:

"CONSOLIDATE
When a unit consolidates, you can move each model in the unit
up to 3" – this is a Consolidation move. Each model must finish its
Consolidation move closer to the closest enemy model. A model
that is already touching an enemy model cannot move, but still
counts as having consolidated. Remember that a unit must finish
any type of move in unit coherency (pg 4)." (emphasis mine)

This means that if he's in base contact, he can't move. The implication is that on the offense you can use this to prevent return swings on their turn, but if they go and pile into you, you are stuck.

patman1440 wrote:

Audustum wrote:


Just remember, with Destroyer, you cannot consolidate out of combat if your opponent activates first (like by charging you) and then basing you. 9th does not allow consolidation movement of any kind for based models. Was a bit of a surprise when I had an opponent who couldn't escape because I had based him (just thoughtlessly on my part).

Could you expand on this?

The rule explicitly states that you don't have to 'end the [consolidation] move closer to the nearest enemy model'. This does not override the other rule?

Quote from the BRB - digital version page 22:

"CONSOLIDATE
When a unit consolidates, you can move each model in the unit
up to 3" – this is a Consolidation move. Each model must finish its
Consolidation move closer to the closest enemy model. A model
that is already touching an enemy model cannot move, but still
counts as having consolidated. Remember that a unit must finish
any type of move in unit coherency (pg 4)." (emphasis mine)

This means that if he's in base contact, he can't move. The implication is that on the offense you can use this to prevent return swings on their turn, but if they go and pile into you, you are stuck.

Appreciate that, important to know.

Got my Allarus boys today.

Couple of beginner qs:

1) Can I shoot concussive grenades on multiple targets to give them -1 to hit? Dont see why not
2) Can I shoot both the rapid fire axes and the ballistus grenade launcher? I think its pistols you cant shoot along with other wpns, but all others can be shot?
3) What do you guys feel about starting them on the board for unleash the lions t1?

 dicerage wrote:
Got my Allarus boys today.

Couple of beginner qs:

1) Can I shoot concussive grenades on multiple targets to give them -1 to hit? Dont see why not
2) Can I shoot both the rapid fire axes and the ballistus grenade launcher? I think its pistols you cant shoot along with other wpns, but all others can be shot?
3) What do you guys feel about starting them on the board for unleash the lions t1?

1) You can only use each stratagem once per phase, so only for one unit, and you have to split fire.
2) Yes, you can shoot with all your ranged weapons, unless otherwise stated. If they have multiple profiles, you have to choose, unless it is a combi weapon, but then you get -1 to hit.
3) You should unleash when they are in position to do what you want with unleash.

KGYM wrote:

 dicerage wrote:
Got my Allarus boys today.

Couple of beginner qs:

1) Can I shoot concussive grenades on multiple targets to give them -1 to hit? Dont see why not
2) Can I shoot both the rapid fire axes and the ballistus grenade launcher? I think its pistols you cant shoot along with other wpns, but all others can be shot?
3) What do you guys feel about starting them on the board for unleash the lions t1?

1) You can only use each stratagem once per phase, so only for one unit, and you have to split fire.
2) Yes, you can shoot with all your ranged weapons, unless otherwise stated. If they have multiple profiles, you have to choose, unless it is a combi weapon, but then you get -1 to hit.
3) You should unleash when they are in position to do what you want with unleash.

Not sure what I want with unleash. Spread out and cause chaos, I guess, make life difficult for the opponent by blocking passageway, drawing fire etc.

Original idea is to vexila drop them midboard or more, shoot at characters with double RF, concussive grenade the unit(s) im charging, buff them defensively in opponents turn and then unleash to spread em out.

The best time to unleash is when your opponent makes a mistake. Unleash is a way to punish a bad move with a character, or a over advance with a vehichle/monster, or when they leave a critical objective open. If you are popping it early, you are just making several easy targets rather than 1 homogenous dangerous target. I usually unleash when I can surround a warlord, or need to break off and finish off an HQ with some quick axe work. Remember, it can be played in your shooting phase OR your opponents. Unless I am massively mistaken, no one has ever stopped me from popping it in my opponent's phase.

Also, you can use it to break unit de-buffs like Jynx, as the "unit" no longer exists. It is now several units. (Nope I am wrong. RAI says it stays. )

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Also, you can use it to break unit de-buffs like Jynx, as the "unit" no longer exists. It is now several units.

This is incorrect. Rare Rules explicitly states that if a unit splits mid-game, any effects on the unit are imparted to their sub-units until such time as those effects would normally expire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Remember, it can be played in your shooting phase OR your opponents. Unless I am massively mistaken, no one has ever stopped me from popping it in my opponent's phase.

This is likewise incorrect. Unleash is only playable at the start of your movement phase.

 dicerage wrote:

KGYM wrote:

 dicerage wrote:
Got my Allarus boys today.

Couple of beginner qs:

1) Can I shoot concussive grenades on multiple targets to give them -1 to hit? Dont see why not
2) Can I shoot both the rapid fire axes and the ballistus grenade launcher? I think its pistols you cant shoot along with other wpns, but all others can be shot?
3) What do you guys feel about starting them on the board for unleash the lions t1?

1) You can only use each stratagem once per phase, so only for one unit, and you have to split fire.
2) Yes, you can shoot with all your ranged weapons, unless otherwise stated. If they have multiple profiles, you have to choose, unless it is a combi weapon, but then you get -1 to hit.
3) You should unleash when they are in position to do what you want with unleash.

Not sure what I want with unleash. Spread out and cause chaos, I guess, make life difficult for the opponent by blocking passageway, drawing fire etc.

Original idea is to vexila drop them midboard or more, shoot at characters with double RF, concussive grenade the unit(s) im charging, buff them defensively in opponents turn and then unleash to spread em out.

Think of unleash this way:

If you need to power through stuff do not use Unleash the Lions. Your strats are stronger in a unified unit and it gets very unreliable to take out key targets if your splitting everything up. Both defensivly and offensivly the unit is better together.

If you need table coverage and to make your opponent have to make tough choices, you want to use Unleash the Lions. Grabbing objectives, rooting out 1-2 man infantry units, and stressing out your opponent is what its good for.

 Eihnlazer wrote:


Think of unleash this way:

If you need to power through stuff do not use Unleash the Lions. Your strats are stronger in a unified unit and it gets very unreliable to take out key targets if your splitting everything up. Both defensivly and offensivly the unit is better together.

If you need table coverage and to make your opponent have to make tough choices, you want to use Unleash the Lions. Grabbing objectives, rooting out 1-2 man infantry units, and stressing out your opponent is what its good for.

Yes, good summary, that is what I am thinking as well. Hence the plan to have them be buffed as a unit for 1 turn - offensively on my round to remove a key threat and/or gain a good starting position on the board from the vexila - stay together through enemy return round - and then split them up, hopefully well rooted on their table half.

Very excited to test this out. They seem a very fun unit!

I like to think about Unleash as a fix value setback for your opponent. You'll set them back a certain amount in their composure, win percent, take what you will. However, it has different impacts on the game depending on the situation you use it in.

In my games so far I've felt that there is a tipping point, where you or your opponent fall below a threshold, and start emergency mode. This means that if you Unleash against a well composed opponent, you will make him reevaluate his plans, reallocate resources etc. If you Unleash against an opponent already ravaged a bit, this might make him go below the threshold, and fall apart completely.

Thing is, the allarus are elites, so they aren't great for holding objectives. A single guardsman can disrupt your points and steal the objective from you. They are both in rules and weapons designed to hunt characters and score points killing the warlord. They pair extremely well with sisters, because they can do semi-character targeting, and really help back up HQ kill teams.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, the allarus are elites, so they aren't great for holding objectives. A single guardsman can disrupt your points and steal the objective from you. They are both in rules and weapons designed to hunt characters and score points killing the warlord. They pair extremely well with sisters, because they can do semi-character targeting, and really help back up HQ kill teams.

And again incorrect. All of our infantry and our bikes have obsec. So a single guardsman can not steal the objective from you unless you have a just one single allarus on the objective, then it is contested because both have obsec. So yeah, a big unit of allarus is actually great at holding objectives, because they are quite hard to shift with the new stratagem support.

Tiberias wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, the allarus are elites, so they aren't great for holding objectives. A single guardsman can disrupt your points and steal the objective from you. They are both in rules and weapons designed to hunt characters and score points killing the warlord. They pair extremely well with sisters, because they can do semi-character targeting, and really help back up HQ kill teams.

And again incorrect. All of our infantry and our bikes have obsec. So a single guardsman can not steal the objective from you unless you have a just one single allarus on the objective, then it is contested because both have obsec. So yeah, a big unit of allarus is actually great at holding objectives, because they are quite hard to shift with the new stratagem support.

Actually, you are only half right. If the objective is contested, there is no points earned. Hence, "stolen" All I have to do at the end of my turn is move, move, move my squad of troops onto the objective held by your lone Allarus, and end ,my turn. Points are now earned at the start of the turn, so when yours begins, you don't get that objective. Point is, I agree with the above poster, there are very few and far between situations where splitting up a squad of allarus makes sense. Certainly not as objective takers.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Tiberias wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, the allarus are elites, so they aren't great for holding objectives. A single guardsman can disrupt your points and steal the objective from you. They are both in rules and weapons designed to hunt characters and score points killing the warlord. They pair extremely well with sisters, because they can do semi-character targeting, and really help back up HQ kill teams.

And again incorrect. All of our infantry and our bikes have obsec. So a single guardsman can not steal the objective from you unless you have a just one single allarus on the objective, then it is contested because both have obsec. So yeah, a big unit of allarus is actually great at holding objectives, because they are quite hard to shift with the new stratagem support.

Actually, you are only half right. If the objective is contested, there is no points earned. Hence, "stolen" All I have to do at the end of my turn is move, move, move my squad of troops onto the objective held by your lone Allarus, and end ,my turn. Points are now earned at the start of the turn, so when yours begins, you don't get that objective. Point is, I agree with the above poster, there are very few and far between situations where splitting up a squad of allarus makes sense. Certainly not as objective takers.

Oh please, stop the backtracking. You clearly meant allarus are bad at holding because they are elites and a single obsec guardsman can steal an objective from them. Which is incorrect cause they have obsec...

Greetings, All!

Im a former 40k player, getting back into the game after being in remission form about 10-15 years (not played much since about 2005, stopped completely in 2010 when i moved aboard). im currently building up a 1K Admech force, but looking at custodes as a secondary next/next project. Now, i quite like the look of the custodes lore wise (they weren't a playable faction back when i was active, not even in heresy or other secondary settings, so they are very new to me still), and i quite like the look of the models. anyway, i have some questions about them that i think this is the best place to ask. Im not expecting to play competitive tournament level play, just the casual pick up level games (assuming i can find somewhere thats hosting. oh well)

so, my questions:

1) looking at the 40k app, it seems like they are quite light on ranged anti-tank, with only really the dreadnought multi-melta and the missile launcher on the bikes as options. i understand they can rip it up in CC with S8 attacks with the castellan axe armed guys, but are they a faction that struggles with tanks or fast vehicles?

2) speaking of the jetbikes and the dread, how easy is it to magnetize the weapons on those? i'd like to have the options for both bolters and missles (unless one of them is totally useless), but i'm not really sure how easy a job that is. with the dreadnought, it seems at first glance that the assault cannon might actually be a passible anti-vehicle weapon (6 shots at str 7), but that might just be me not being good at converting modern stat-lines into "in game" effect. Also, is that multi-melta the same as the one thats getting a boost from the new Codex: space marines?


3) I've heard conflicting accounts about the real world cost of getting a custodes army going. My understanding is that the GW "proper" stuff is (relatively) cheap (it seems i can put together a 500 point army for just £70, and a 750 point for £105), but that it can get really expensive if you go heavy with the Forge World stuff. Is the FW stuff A) worth getting? and if it is, it is B) essential, becuase it fills some vital gap in the army?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, forgot:

4) Sisters of Silence, are they a separate, allied faction imperial faction, or something we can take as a regular unit choice? Some of the things I have seen seem to imply they are part of the "the custodes army range", but their stat-lines don't have the right keywords or any rules suggesting they can.

Welcome!

1. Yes that's a fair assessment. There's also the land raider as far as plastic kits go, but of the main codex options a unit of bikes with salvo launchers and Archeotech munitions is your best bet. Doesn't really approach the AT power of some other factions in terms of efficiency.

Forge world on the other hand opens up some fairly strong options, favourite of mine is the Telemon dreadnought with storm cannons.

2. Can't speak for the dreadnought (nor would I recommend it right now), but bikes are super easy to magnetise in that you don't even need to use magnets or glue on the weapons. Just push them in and out as you like, they click snugly into place. Don't follow the instructions which tells you to glue them in early in construction, just wait until the end and pop them in without glue.

3. At this stage Custodes can still function fairly well without being absolutely dependant on forgeworld. People focus on the poor AT shooting during list building but if you are clever about it, it's never really a problem. All you need to be able to do is touch the enemy tanks in assault with a jetbike captain or teleporting terminators and they are neutered for a turn, and Custodes put out enough hurt in combat that you stand a fair chance of knocking tanks out anyway. Vehicle heavy shooty lists are poor at playing objectives really while Custodes infantry are among the best in the game at it, so you can afford to take some shooting from enemy tanks. As long as you still control objectives you're still winning the game so who cares.

The thing to watch out for is the transport-rush style of list which is a challenge for custodes to deal with generally.

4. Take a look at the 'War of the spider' book which came out a few months ago. It contains extra rules for custodes (some damn good ones) and also rules for using Sisters of silence in custodes detachments. Basically you can just put them in as elites choices with no problems.

So, first off, Welcome to the hobby. In order to answer your questions, here are some great resources

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lmW9HCJWL0: Table Top Titans. Generally a great youtube presentation of what to expect with our army - Bonus he's one of the rules team.

Also: https://www.youtube.com/user/1PlusArmour Can hammer - does great interviews with a lot of the prop players that main Custodes, and he does awesome bat reps

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Adeptus_Custodes(8E)

- A tactics thread, generally dismissed, but I find some good theory crafting and counter strategies for our guys here some times. YMMV.

Otherwise, If you are hoping to go pro player - FW is king for us. Over half our faction is FW currently, and the best half at that.

Right now, our tanks, transports, heavy Elite Terminators, and Super-heavy flyers are all FW.

You can win locals as GW, but the Ares, Aquillons, and Telemons are pretty much must have for tournament play. I wish you the best in this hobby!

Custodes can be fun, challenging, rewarding, and very sneaky. But they take a lot to play well. YMMV.

Thanks for the replies.

When you say "i wouldn't recommend the plastic dreadnought " , is that " i would recommend something else. Its kinda meh" or "its totally awful, never take it ever"?

I will check out those YouTube links, thankyou

xerxeskingofking wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

When you say "i wouldn't recommend the plastic dreadnought " , is that " i would recommend something else. Its kinda meh" or "its totally awful, never take it ever"?

I will check out those YouTube links, thankyou

It has been in the totally awful category for a long time, however with the recent rules available in War of the Spider combined with perhaps a significant buff to the multi-melta, it could be a nice option potentially in a few weeks time (rules wise).

The only other reason I wouldn't recommend the model is that the plastic Contemptor dreadnought kit itself is just awful. Its the same as the normal Space marines plastic Contemptor. I got one in the 'Talons of the Emperor' kit when plastic custodes first came out, its just the worst looking, boring, generic, lifeless model I've ever put together and you need to do quite a bit of modification to it just to get it into a fighting stance which isn't an impersonation of a tree. Even after all that I've never had the motivation to finish painting it, its just so dull. So if you care about having a cool looking model you're better off going for a Forgeworld Contemptor dreadnought and then converting it to look like it belongs to the Custodes. Dunno if thats important to you or not

xerxeskingofking wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

When you say "i wouldn't recommend the plastic dreadnought " , is that " i would recommend something else. Its kinda meh" or "its totally awful, never take it ever"?

I will check out those YouTube links, thankyou

Heyhey, welcome home to the hobby

I'm a new custodes player as well - started it 2 months ago - this was the first link I was recommended, it's an article that covers the main strengths and weaknesses, as well as the gamechanging additions that came in War of the Spider.

It did a great job of bringing me into custodes:

https://www.theartofwar40k.com/home/zfwmf07wuzeda9sfuo8cdbrqhfne2c

Art Of War has been mentioned before, it's a very solid resource I think.

Hey guys - what happens with While We Stand, We Fight and Unleash the Lions?

What do you mean? WWSWF is for individual models from the start.

ok, next set of new guy questions:

1) the "sentinel storm" stratagem lets you shoot your sentinel blades pistol shots in the opponents turn, so long as you are in melee. Am i right in saying that this lets you shoot twice in a battle round (once in your turn, once in his)? and is that strat really worth 2CP given the fairly mediocre firepower 3-5 pistol shots can do?

2) I've been looking at the forge world stuff for the custodes. I see what people mean about the telemon being a better dread (though its currently out of stock, so its kinda a moot point at this time). My next question is over the halberd and sword n board dreads that FW do. Personally they seem quite fluffy and reasonably effective for thier points. does anyone use them, or are they just another dead end?

3) the assault-type guardian spear options form FW, any good or a waste of points? I quite like the Adrasite spears but three times the point cost is a steep rise, even if they seem like decent anti-marine weapons.

Anyway, my dirt cheap 500 point starter list:

Shield captain (95) with stentinel blade and Storm shield (17) = 112 pts

Vexilus praetor (85) with guardian spear (5) = 90

3 Custodian guard w. spears (49 each)= 147
3 Custodian guard w spears (49 each) = 147
Total 496 pts.

Seeing as i can build that with just 2 regular custodian guard boxes, I'd say that's easily one of the cheapest 500 point starter armies i have seen. Went with storm shield and sword on the captain so he can damm well stay alive. on the I'm planning to give the shield captain the Sentinel blade relic and have the flag carrier take either the +1 attacks or the -1 to hit standard (leaning towards the latter, cant stabby stabby if i get shot to pieces beforehand!)

planned expansion would be adding a either a FW Contemptor dread or 3 termies, and a trio of bikes, which would likely take me up to 1000 points pretty easily.

is that a hopeless list? ok for causal (the level i plan to play at)? actually someone's tournament list i stumbled upon by accident?