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Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Insularum wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Spoiler:
drbored wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
( This should probably be in my signature)


What a brilliant observation, people really do hate when things are bad for them or when things change for the worse in their opinion. I don't know how I would live without that astounding piece of enlightement.


I *will* praise GW when they get something right.

I've said it many times, the core 9th edition rules are fantastic. The stratagem and rules bloat is where they've botched it.
The Chaos Marine Codex has some good rules in it, some fluffy stuff, and many new ways to build your army. The traits for most legions are far superior to what we had previously (though that wasn't a hard bar to surpass).
They botched it with the inconsistency of weapons and profiles between one datasheet and the next.

When you have a game that doesn't have this issue across any other faction, it gets very, very frustrating. Yes we saw it to a degree in Genestealer Cult, but they weren't calling a power fist something different in every single profile. Space Marines are very consistent despite handling both firstborn and primaris models. Admech with all their esoteric weapons aren't lumped together. Sisters of Battle have combi-weapons and power weapons galore for all their Superiors of different kinds, and it's the same weapon selection across most of the superiors.

It's not the end of the world, but it's *irksome*. Like a child asking 'are we there yet'. Every time a Chaos Codex strips an option or makes a mess of the other options, it's another 'are we there yet'. I could tune it out and do my best to enjoy the trip, even build an army that has none of those troublesome units, but it sure would be nice if that child would just shut up for an edition.

Summed up my feelings as well. Like I can live with it and make it work, but it's getting in it's own way and keeping it from being a truly great book. It almost feels like there were two different teams responsible for the book, and the one doing the datasheets and they didn't talk at all and just turned in their work separately.

Thinking of this book's weird issues unless I missed something we have meltas and flamers for assault weapons but flamers get a flat +2 number of shots bonus, so the only assault weapon I'm aware of that benefits from our Wanton bonuses is the melta gun. Feels like more evidence of a disconnect in the team.

Yeah melta would be the main winner if it could be taken in any quantities anywhere (no fallen, restrictions on new chosen and new termies - there are no dedicated special weapon squads anymore). Sonic weapons other than the siren, the Venomcrawlers guns, Horus' talon and weirdly Haarken's spear all benefit, Haarken might need a FAQ though (does the beam hit twice on a 6?). 4 turns of doctrines affecting assault weapons though, so if you can find them it's kind of better than the loyalist marines tactical doctrine only for assault weapons.

Oh good, a few more assault weapons in the mix (forgot about Noise Marines because how do you sneak at 500db?). Still a pretty weak bonus since the most commonly affect weapon is a 1 shot weapon.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I haven't seen anyone talk about the wargear lists, so I dove into the GMG video review because I was still curious to see what options we could work with:


And my best screenshot at max resolution is a mess so let me do my best to translate that to something less pixellated:
Heavy Weapons
Havoc autocannon
Heavy bolter
Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Reaper chaincannon

Melee Weapons
Astartes chainsword
Power axe
Power fist
Power maul
Power sword
Tainted chainaxe (+1 S, AP-1, 2D for 5pts)

Special Weapons
Flamer
Meltagun
Plasma gun


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would have been happy if they at least put an accursed weapon on that melee list for the Chaos Lord to have access to so we can represent random melee wargear choices. Oh well, guess my Chainglaives will be Tainted chainaxes instead.


You poor soul.

Use this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH2lSGQOWko&t=920s&ab_channel=Sprues%26Brews

   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator






Virginia, US

I have two squads in my 2500+ point army that are still legal. thats it. I think I might be taking a break from this hobby for a while. build some gundams and play dnd maybe. I just dont have the heart to break apart my minis that I have been playing for years and spent huge chunks of time painting/converting.

"I don't have a good feeling about this... Your mini looks like it has my mini's head on a stick..."

"From the immaterium to the Imperium, this is Radio Free Nostramo! Coming to you live from the Eye of Terror, this is your host, Captain Contagion, bringing you the latest Heretical hits!"
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 bullyboy wrote:
Yes, I do think a chaos space marine army should like a chaos space marine army. It’s codex: chaos space marines right? Not just codex: chaos. Cultists and support was all 8th and early 9th, let’s hope they go all in an actual cultist army, and have people actually use chaos space marines in a chaos space marines army. They could have pushed cultists to elites like they did marine scouts, but chaos would need way moa. re troop options than what they have now, unlike marines with their grocery superstore options.
. Naa chaos space marines simply means they should be the focus as in the strongest the leadership. Chaos should be strong chaos leaders backed by tuns of chaff aka cultists and supernatural support demons all bound to a core of superpower full chaos space marines. That's how I want my chaos space marines they should have the strongest heros and extremely powerful exulted, possesed, chosen, then a few up and comers that are around the same strength as space marines. That's the army I want to play.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
I have two squads in my 2500+ point army that are still legal. thats it. I think I might be taking a break from this hobby for a while. build some gundams and play dnd maybe. I just dont have the heart to break apart my minis that I have been playing for years and spent huge chunks of time painting/converting.

I went through something similar when DG got their codex and my old DG stopped being a legal way to play (plus I didn't have half of the new wargear).

Honestly it took a while for me to come back to CSM when I decided to give my Sisters some much needed time off towards the tail end of 7th. If it wasn't for HH and the Night Lords omnibus creating an idea for what I wanted to do for an army I think I'd still be floundering on what I wanted to do right now.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ClockworkZion wrote:
 thepowerfulwill wrote:
I have two squads in my 2500+ point army that are still legal. thats it. I think I might be taking a break from this hobby for a while. build some gundams and play dnd maybe. I just dont have the heart to break apart my minis that I have been playing for years and spent huge chunks of time painting/converting.

I went through something similar when DG got their codex and my old DG stopped being a legal way to play (plus I didn't have half of the new wargear).

Honestly it took a while for me to come back to CSM when I decided to give my Sisters some much needed time off towards the tail end of 7th. If it wasn't for HH and the Night Lords omnibus creating an idea for what I wanted to do for an army I think I'd still be floundering on what I wanted to do right now.


Yeah, got a friend reading the Night Lords Omnibus. Should be a new convert soon enough.

I will likely treat this faction the way I treat many other factions that have half-love from GW. I won't buy any of the ancient or otherwise troublesome models. Bikers, Chaos Lords, Terminators, Chosen, just not going to touch them. I can make an army with a Master of Possession, Warpsmith, Possessed, Venomcrawlers, Helbrutes, a Forgefiend, and a few other models that I do still like from the range. Then, if GW does figure out what they're doing with this faction and gives us any sense of consistency, I can start adding in other updated options to fill out points. I'm not a competitive player at all, so an army of daemon engines and daemonkin sounds like fun.

I won't play them as Night Lords, because that's just pants. I'll probably go with... literally anything else for the moment, and return to my idea of converting up a custom warband so it can be whatever I want.

This just feels so much like a holdover era for Chaos Marines, and it's frustrating because we've already been waiting for a long time just to get the basic 2 wound treatment. We still don't have the rest of the Chaos kits out yet, no clue on how the Oblits and Venomcrawler are going to be packaged, and are still dealing with ancient Bikers, so... who knows? I've waited this long, I can wait another 15 years, health willing.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Oh, the 8th Legion got plenty of love. Just not in 40k. Not in this mess. Come have a look at our 30k rules drbored. See the rules that the 8th Legion should have always had.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 ClockworkZion wrote:
 thepowerfulwill wrote:
I have two squads in my 2500+ point army that are still legal. thats it. I think I might be taking a break from this hobby for a while. build some gundams and play dnd maybe. I just dont have the heart to break apart my minis that I have been playing for years and spent huge chunks of time painting/converting.

I went through something similar when DG got their codex and my old DG stopped being a legal way to play (plus I didn't have half of the new wargear).

Honestly it took a while for me to come back to CSM when I decided to give my Sisters some much needed time off towards the tail end of 7th. If it wasn't for HH and the Night Lords omnibus creating an idea for what I wanted to do for an army I think I'd still be floundering on what I wanted to do right now.


This makes me sad. Losing as much as an army that got a full re-launch in return with nothing to show for it should never, ever happen. This is just as bad 7th's edition ork codex.

I present you, the the most misquoted part of all 40k lore:
Genetor Lukas Anzion in Codex Orks, 3rd edition wrote:[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.

This is literally all GW ever wrote on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Jidmah wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 thepowerfulwill wrote:
I have two squads in my 2500+ point army that are still legal. thats it. I think I might be taking a break from this hobby for a while. build some gundams and play dnd maybe. I just dont have the heart to break apart my minis that I have been playing for years and spent huge chunks of time painting/converting.

I went through something similar when DG got their codex and my old DG stopped being a legal way to play (plus I didn't have half of the new wargear).

Honestly it took a while for me to come back to CSM when I decided to give my Sisters some much needed time off towards the tail end of 7th. If it wasn't for HH and the Night Lords omnibus creating an idea for what I wanted to do for an army I think I'd still be floundering on what I wanted to do right now.


This makes me sad. Losing as much as an army that got a full re-launch in return with nothing to show for it should never, ever happen. This is just as bad 7th's edition ork codex.

Yeah, my Plague Marine units were legal, but my Obliterators weren't. I also had daemons that weren't legal to be in the army anymore (I haven't gone back through all my old stuff but I'm pretty sure I had other stuff going on that's no longer legal). I think the faction is in a better place now, but growing pains can really torpedo long standing armies.

The good news of dual building for 40k and 30k at the same time for my NL is that the models will always have use at least.
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







30k is a huge benefit yeah. I can safely build a bunch of Bolter armed and heavy weapons Emperor's Children and know I will always have use for them in a 30k army.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

 blood reaper wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
( This should probably be in my signature)


What a brilliant observation, people really do hate when things are bad for them or when things change for the worse in their opinion. I don't know how I would live without that astounding piece of enlightement.


We've got some real geniuses in this thread to say the least - some of the observations have been stunning. If this was another site, they'd be getting a LOT of upvotes right about now.


Yes, such geniuses that y'all completely missed the point.

You guys will complain no matter what, and if any attempt is made to try to fix it, you will complain even more. Why? Because everything is "bad for you" and every change is a "change for the worse". GW could make the exact changes that you guys demand and you will still complain about how its worse in a moment of "No, not like that".



CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





That's your flawed faulty idea.

2022 painted/bought: 497/632 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jidmah wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 thepowerfulwill wrote:
I have two squads in my 2500+ point army that are still legal. thats it. I think I might be taking a break from this hobby for a while. build some gundams and play dnd maybe. I just dont have the heart to break apart my minis that I have been playing for years and spent huge chunks of time painting/converting.

I went through something similar when DG got their codex and my old DG stopped being a legal way to play (plus I didn't have half of the new wargear).

Honestly it took a while for me to come back to CSM when I decided to give my Sisters some much needed time off towards the tail end of 7th. If it wasn't for HH and the Night Lords omnibus creating an idea for what I wanted to do for an army I think I'd still be floundering on what I wanted to do right now.


This makes me sad. Losing as much as an army that got a full re-launch in return with nothing to show for it should never, ever happen. This is just as bad 7th's edition ork codex.

Yeah, my Plague Marine units were legal, but my Obliterators weren't. I also had daemons that weren't legal to be in the army anymore (I haven't gone back through all my old stuff but I'm pretty sure I had other stuff going on that's no longer legal). I think the faction is in a better place now, but growing pains can really torpedo long standing armies.

The good news of dual building for 40k and 30k at the same time for my NL is that the models will always have use at least.

It's going to be a pretty jarring experience going back and forth from Night Lords 30k rules to Night Lords 40k rules. Kinda like driving a well tuned car (30k) into town.....and then yanking off a couple of plug wires (40k) and driving it back home.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jidmah wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 thepowerfulwill wrote:
I have two squads in my 2500+ point army that are still legal. thats it. I think I might be taking a break from this hobby for a while. build some gundams and play dnd maybe. I just dont have the heart to break apart my minis that I have been playing for years and spent huge chunks of time painting/converting.

I went through something similar when DG got their codex and my old DG stopped being a legal way to play (plus I didn't have half of the new wargear).

Honestly it took a while for me to come back to CSM when I decided to give my Sisters some much needed time off towards the tail end of 7th. If it wasn't for HH and the Night Lords omnibus creating an idea for what I wanted to do for an army I think I'd still be floundering on what I wanted to do right now.


This makes me sad. Losing as much as an army that got a full re-launch in return with nothing to show for it should never, ever happen. This is just as bad 7th's edition ork codex.

Yeah, my Plague Marine units were legal, but my Obliterators weren't. I also had daemons that weren't legal to be in the army anymore (I haven't gone back through all my old stuff but I'm pretty sure I had other stuff going on that's no longer legal). I think the faction is in a better place now, but growing pains can really torpedo long standing armies.

The good news of dual building for 40k and 30k at the same time for my NL is that the models will always have use at least.

It's going to be a pretty jarring experience going back and forth from Night Lords 30k rules to Night Lords 40k rules. Kinda like driving a well tuned car (30k) into town.....and then yanking off a couple of plug wires (40k) and driving it back home.

Same car just with more miles on it was the thought that crossed my mind.

My thought was more that I'll never fail to have ways to play my models. Like the Axe Praetor from the starter is a good Master of Executions stand in for example, but he can also be a Praetor with a Headsman's Axe.
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







chaos0xomega wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
( This should probably be in my signature)


What a brilliant observation, people really do hate when things are bad for them or when things change for the worse in their opinion. I don't know how I would live without that astounding piece of enlightement.


We've got some real geniuses in this thread to say the least - some of the observations have been stunning. If this was another site, they'd be getting a LOT of upvotes right about now.


Yes, such geniuses that y'all completely missed the point.


No the point is dumb as hell.


You guys will complain no matter what, and if any attempt is made to try to fix it, you will complain even more. Why? Because everything is "bad for you" and every change is a "change for the worse". GW could make the exact changes that you guys demand and you will still complain about how its worse in a moment of "No, not like that".


Except I and the others have said we've liked some of the changes. You're just disingenuous and instead of accepting there's any kind of issues, fall behind the argument of "ah well, you can't please everyone!"


The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in gb
Never Forget Isstvan!






chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, such geniuses that y'all completely missed the point.

You guys will complain no matter what, and if any attempt is made to try to fix it, you will complain even more. Why? Because everything is "bad for you" and every change is a "change for the worse". GW could make the exact changes that you guys demand and you will still complain about how its worse in a moment of "No, not like that".

Wut...
If GW made a Chaos Codex that wasn't randomly restricted with wargear, had the option to build a variety of CSM forces from full Legion Warbands to smaller groups leading hordes of Cultists, and didn't remove units because they're in other army books (Cult Marines), then I'd be very happy indeed. There's no reason the above can't be a thing.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

chaos0xomega wrote:
You guys will complain no matter what, and if any attempt is made to try to fix it, you will complain even more.
"Impressive. Every word in that sentence was wrong!" - Luke Skywalker, a Night Lords player.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 13:14:26


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





When people are saying 'cult troops are gone' do they not see the rules to bring in cult troops or do they just find those rules too restrictive?

   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




More inconvenient, and a lot of the reviews are super unclear on how that really works, and whether you have to, in effect, pay twice for it. Or a premium. Or... whatever. Like I said, its really unclear.

Hopefully that will change as real people get the book and actually take the time to explain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 14:12:53


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
When people are saying 'cult troops are gone' do they not see the rules to bring in cult troops or do they just find those rules too restrictive?

Pretty sure it's the "You have to buy another $50 book" and "They're not really part of your warband/no Legion trait" things.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
When people are saying 'cult troops are gone' do they not see the rules to bring in cult troops or do they just find those rules too restrictive?
They're still not in the book.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Here's a good screenshot if people find it helpful:

Spoiler:


Rubrics get +2 flamers, but no legion trait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
When people are saying 'cult troops are gone' do they not see the rules to bring in cult troops or do they just find those rules too restrictive?
They're still not in the book.


Yea, true. Though we all get around that easy enough.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 14:49:01


   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Needlessly paying for a Mark and having weird Legion restrictions don't seem like "easy enough" to me.

It's just another thing on a long list of bs that this Codex is making us put up with.

I look forward to receiving my copy so that, like so many here, I can put together my letter to GW over all the book's deficiencies and especially it's rampant and flagrant inconsistencies.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





A ten man rubric squad with flamers gets 30 hits even if you roll all 1s. That is wild.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I don't think the mark is needless. I'm pretty hype for Rubrics that have All is Dust and take 0 damage on the first failed save with uber flamers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 xeen wrote:
A ten man rubric squad with flamers gets 30 hits even if you roll all 1s. That is wild.


Yea there's absolutely a reason they're not CORE or benefitting from traits. They'd be total monsters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 15:18:56


   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Needlessly paying for a Mark and having weird Legion restrictions don't seem like "easy enough" to me.

It's just another thing on a long list of bs that this Codex is making us put up with.

I look forward to receiving my copy so that, like so many here, I can put together my letter to GW over all the book's deficiencies and especially it's rampant and flagrant inconsistencies.

Put it together? Mine is already ready to go. I'm just waiting for the codex to be released to pull the trigger.

Though, I am considering adding a bit of comparison between this mess, and another product from the same company. Or, it says that it's from the same company. It's really hard to believe actually........
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 Daedalus81 wrote:


Yea there's absolutely a reason they're not CORE or benefitting from traits. They'd be total monsters.



They are CORE.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:


Yea there's absolutely a reason they're not CORE or benefitting from traits. They'd be total monsters.



They are CORE.


Oh gak you're right...it says replace the faction keywords not all...oh boy...

   
Made in us
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:


Yea there's absolutely a reason they're not CORE or benefitting from traits. They'd be total monsters.



They are CORE.


Oh gak you're right...it says replace the faction keywords not all...oh boy...


The feth did you think was happening here? That they'd actually placed the restrictions in good fatih to avoid overpowered bs?
Sorry to burst your bubble . They ain't there for that, they are there to either A feth with the playerbase and counter specific models or B because the ruleswriters of this codex are not worth the meagre salary GW is providing them for their efforts.

Meanwhile i am willing to bet that there will be problem combinations in this book galore, provoked by oversights and carelessness just like the ork codex.
but fret not , as soon as SM vehicles get their insta FAQ i expect gw to fully nerf these combos into the ground and stamp out the oversights.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 15:52:17


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Though, I am considering adding a bit of comparison between this mess, and another product from the same company. Or, it says that it's from the same company. It's really hard to believe actually........
I don't have the HH rules, but that's probably a good idea to do that.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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