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I like the warpsmith model and im looking to include one what units does he have synergy with? should i let him loose in combat ? help me out guys :-)

he doesnt really singergize too well with anything. You could give him MoN and a 4++ put him up front in a squad and tank with his 2+.
You could have him camp back with some havocs and a forge fined or two using his 4+ repair to help IWND restore hull points.

I really wish they had given him preferred enemy (vehicles) then he would have a tactical role to fill.

Right now he is well costed for what he does, but what he does isnt all that useful. Tech Marines are cheaper for repair and improving defenses is better than shatter. This guy has more wounds and attacks so he costs more, but how often do tech marines get into combat anyway. The meltagun instead of a plasma gun on his harness and the lack of powerfists is also a bit of a nerf.

He seems pretty pointless to me. Next to a sorcerer, lord, or daemon prince why bother? Unless you want to play some sort of themed iron warriors list I don't see the point. And since there really isn't an iron warriors list even that point doesn't exist.

He is actually not bad. The best way to run him is next to some of your backline support. I find that the best way to do this is put him in a group with some oblits and next to some forgefiends/lascannon preds and behind an aegis defense line.

I am fairly certain the point of the Warpsmith is to synergize with Forgefiends/Defilers. And in this, his shatter is arguably better, because it lowers those pesky cover saves so your daemon engines can go to town on those Long Fangs etc. Combined with their own regenerative abilities, and their 5++,this can make them very durable. It also means that the warpsmith needs to be in the frontline, following your engine, hence the extra combat abilities.

Is he actually worth it? Debatable. But there is a clear synergy there. I'd probably only use him over 2000 points myself, after I filled all my heavy slots...

Though perhaps a list with two Warpsmiths, 3 forgefiends and 3 Hellbrutes might be interesting.

I've had a lot of fun using him. While isn't the most competitive choice, he is still pretty decent. Keep in mind that he has five Attacks base with his Power Axe, so even with WS4 he is still pretty decent in CC.

His Machine curse can be fairly effective, and he can fire with multiple weapons as well, thanks to the Mechatendrils. I'd make sure you run him with MoN and at least an Aura of Dark Glory. Repairing your Daemon engines can also help quite a bit.

Overall, he is a fun HQ to use. I do agree he is not the most competitive choice in the HQ slot, but he can still be effective.

A melta gun is a pretty decent step up over the plasma pistol the techmarine gets.

-Matt

 Exergy wrote:
he doesnt really singergize too well with anything. You could give him MoN and a 4++ put him up front in a squad and tank with his 2+.
You could have him camp back with some havocs and a forge fined or two using his 4+ repair to help IWND restore hull points.

I really wish they had given him preferred enemy (vehicles) then he would have a tactical role to fill.

Right now he is well costed for what he does, but what he does isnt all that useful. Tech Marines are cheaper for repair and improving defenses is better than shatter. This guy has more wounds and attacks so he costs more, but how often do tech marines get into combat anyway. The meltagun instead of a plasma gun on his harness and the lack of powerfists is also a bit of a nerf.

What would be the point of Prefered Enemy (Vehicles) when you can't use half the ability?

You don't roll to wound vehicles, so...

The way I see it, he has two main roles. One is to.bolster a Fiend/Brute heavy list. The other is to wreak havoc against mech armies like Guard, the Machine Curse can be devastating if you can get into a decent position.

How do you suppose the Machine Curse would fare against Necrons?

 Exergy wrote:
he doesnt really singergize too well with anything. You could give him MoN and a 4++ put him up front in a squad and tank with his 2+.

Just a note, the Warpsmith cannot buy "Special Issue Wargear" so no Sigil of Corruption. He only has access to Ranged Weapons, Chaos Rewards and Chaos Artifacts.

Best used with anything that has 4 hull points to increase your chances of repairing a lost hull point.
In which case he's probably best used with a couple of defilers marching up the field

If I was to use one I would want to maximise the chances of effectiveness as commented above and would likely give him a group of cultists to aid in his survival.
Either that or put him on a bike with MoN.

With people leaning more towards glancing things to death rather than in your face melta explosion he may actually see some play.

 L0rdF1end wrote:

If I was to use one I would want to maximise the chances of effectiveness as commented above and would likely give him a group of cultists to aid in his survival.
Either that or put him on a bike with MoN.

as has been pointed out, he cannot take special issue wargear, so he cannot get a bike. Needs mon to avoid ID striking at init1 all the time.

 Exergy wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:

If I was to use one I would want to maximise the chances of effectiveness as commented above and would likely give him a group of cultists to aid in his survival.
Either that or put him on a bike with MoN.

as has been pointed out, he cannot take special issue wargear, so he cannot get a bike. Needs mon to avoid ID striking at init1 all the time.

Dunno if MoN is worth it to avoid ID, he has 2 wounds after all and strikes at I1, need to crunch some numbers but maybe MoT is better for him, of even go markless


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Making some numbers MoN will help you avoid ID from a champion, but if you face a Lord/Captain with power fist it does 1.48 wounds to the warpsmith, meaning he has a good chance of dying from 2 wounds, with MoN or 1.11 wounds with MoT which would instant kill him. So i'd say go unmarked and save those points, if he faces a HQ with an AP2 he is gonna die no matter which mark you got

He man's a quad gun alright.
He also makes for a decent 2nd shot out of the top of a rhino for an MSU squad.

He has an awful lot of attacks if you give him a magic weapon.
Chaos don't really have anything like a serious deathstar so it's sort of par for the course with these guys. Hard to say what to do with the chaos HQs.

I kept him back w/ some Havocs one game, MoN, and a 5+ invun save, I spread my Havocs out so he was touching a Forgefriend and would repair it anytime it took damage. Its also added insurance to keep those Havocs alive (since our havocs now rock w/ lascannons!). As its been pointed out he has a good amount of attacks, he maybe only WS4, but 5 attacks w/ an AP2 weapon is nothing to scoff at.

Ive just had a thought give him the axe of blind fury MoK and shove him with either some khorne Cultists or Khorne CSM he will be a close combat monster and maybe give him a combi plass to take advantage of that sweet BS5

He also gets boons, which can become important if you are going to accept challenges.

The best role I have seen him used for was in a tournament, repairing vehicles. Something tells me every 6th edition army is going to have a repairman as we go forward.

I have used him a few times. He is not great, but he is not awful.

The few times he has repaired a vehicle (most notably a demolisher cannon on a vindi), it was always like "Man, I am glad I brought along that guy."

I would not be overly concerned with a quad gun, but if you run a icarus lascannon, I think he would make a better option to man it, hitting on 2s.

Overall, I think he has a role in certain lists (as mentioned, heavy walker/vehicle lists). But, he is by no means the star of the codex.

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
Ive just had a thought give him the axe of blind fury MoK and shove him with either some khorne Cultists or Khorne CSM he will be a close combat monster and maybe give him a combi plass to take advantage of that sweet BS5

he already comes with a meltagun, why add a combi plas

also giving him an axe of blinding fury wastes his power axe.

neither one of those ideas is better than a chaoslord with said options, who has more wounds, attacks, WS, and fearless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
He also gets boons, which can become important if you are going to accept challenges.

The best role I have seen him used for was in a tournament, repairing vehicles. Something tells me every 6th edition army is going to have a repairman as we go forward.

really 100+ points to repair a hull point on 4+, in the shooting phase. So if you have a ton of vehicles that are getting shot from turn one you might expect to repair 3 hull points. for 100 points you could have a helbrute, who can shoot AND has 3 hull points.

terrible idea

 Exergy wrote:
terrible idea

Here's a link to battlereps from the winner of this year's Mechanicon, who fielded a Warpsmith as his HQ.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=264498&hl=tournament

His army list included the following (all under 1500 points, no less):

- Warp Smith
- Land Raider (transport for terminators)
- Defiler with Havoc
- Forge Fiend of Ecto-Plasma hell
- Chaos Vindicator with Siege Shield

... if you read through the battle reports, he really used the Warpsmith in a support role. I understand we Chaos players are not used to thinking about things in terms of 'support' and 'buffs' and 'doing good to others in any fashion whatsoever,' but that seems to be the main purpose for this HQ choice.

That's not to say he's going to be useful in every game, but look at what's going on here with a 1500 point force. Those tanks are almost half the points for the force, in this situation a 50% chance to repair a hull point is going to be very important. More important, perhaps, than a Khorne Lord on a bike would be - because he doesn't provide synergy with the rest of the army.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
terrible idea

Here's a link to battlereps from the winner of this year's Mechanicon, who fielded a Warpsmith as his HQ.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=264498&hl=tournament
His army list included the following (all under 1500 points, no less):
- Warp Smith
- Land Raider (transport for terminators)
- Defiler with Havoc
- Forge Fiend of Ecto-Plasma hell
- Chaos Vindicator with Siege Shield
... if you read through the battle reports, he really used the Warpsmith in a support role. I understand we Chaos players are not used to thinking about things in terms of 'support' and 'buffs' and 'doing good to others in any fashion whatsoever,' but that seems to be the main purpose for this HQ choice.
That's not to say he's going to be useful in every game, but look at what's going on here with a 1500 point force. Those tanks are almost half the points for the force, in this situation a 50% chance to repair a hull point is going to be very important. More important, perhaps, than a Khorne Lord on a bike would be - because he doesn't provide synergy with the rest of the army.

read it and I have got to say, just because you win a tournament does not mean you have a power list. Usually the winners have something somewhat competitive and a lot of luck. Consistant winners might have a power list.
That is an armor heavy low AP pie cluster and he is very lucky he didnt come up against armies with a lot of AT. When he did we was able to endure it with the 5++ and the warpsmith and luck. A lot of luck. I am surprised how well this did again mech IG, but how would it go against DE, Tau or certain newcron lists? All that str8-10 AP2-3 shooting is not much better than str6 ap4 against such armies.


It is true that chaos kind of got shafted in the way of support character, the ones they do have are too expensive for what they do. The ones they do have that are better than the warpsmith are the sorcerer and some character with the burning brand and fearless. Sorcerers are cheap and very useful in boosting units(would be better with divination) A chaos lord with burning brand and some form of transport is 100 points well spent. With nurgle and blight grenades he also adds to any unit he joins.

Ork Meks can repair vehicles(very well)
techmainres can repair vehicles(very well with servitors)
warpsmiths only ever get a 4+ to repair and they cost 100+ points. They have a meltagun(but cant use it if they are repairting) the can curse things(but cant use it if they are shooting or repairing)

@Exergy - I don't believe I labelled this as a power list, you are the one who said running a Warpsmith as support was a terrible idea.

The only thing this list illustrates is valid tactics for the Warpsmith, per the topic of this discussion. It happens to contradict something you said before and your response does little to strengthen your argument.

Saying this player was lucky, his opponents sucked, it was raining, etc - is irrelevant and belittles the accomplishment of someone who won a tournament. Further, it does little to advance people's understanding of how to work with a unit from the new Codex.

Yes, there are valid uses for a Warpsmith, and yes, he can be used effectively in a support role. I would be interested in hearing about other valid uses. There's not much more to it than that and you don't need to take down other players because you don't like the idea.

I mean, I don't even see why you say all that - we all play the game, know luck is part of things, and most importantly everyone at that tournament had access to the the exact same resources when playing the game. This guy happened to win with a unit you are skeptical about, and good for him.

 techsoldaten wrote:
@Exergy - I don't believe I labelled this as a power list, you are the one who said running a Warpsmith as support was a terrible idea.

The only thing this list illustrates is valid tactics for the Warpsmith, per the topic of this discussion. It happens to contradict something you said before and your response does little to strengthen your argument.

Saying this player was lucky, his opponents sucked, it was raining, etc - is irrelevant and belittles the accomplishment of someone who won a tournament. Further, it does little to advance people's understanding of how to work with a unit from the new Codex.

Yes, there are valid uses for a Warpsmith, and yes, he can be used effectively in a support role. I would be interested in hearing about other valid uses. There's not much more to it than that and you don't need to take down other players because you don't like the idea.

I mean, I don't even see why you say all that - we all play the game, know luck is part of things, and most importantly everyone at that tournament had access to the the exact same resources when playing the game. This guy happened to win with a unit you are skeptical about, and good for him.

Warpsmiths are interesting support character. They dont really do all that much very well but they can do a lot of different things. Repairing is good if you are sitting back and your opponenet is stripping hull points. Curse might be useful as shooting >12"(although it only has a 18" range). Having a meltagun(and a flamer) on your character will be useful in a lot of different cases. And in a pinch having a ton of WS4, Str5 AP2 attacks can be nice backed up with his 2+ save(other guys will punk him though)

I just feel he isn't that great a choice, if he could curse instead of firing one weapon(letting him still fire 1 other). If he could shatter any 1 piece of cover on the board. If he granted something to the squad he joined (like PE vehicles). If his squad could help him repair(like servitors or something)

 techsoldaten wrote:
Something tells me every 6th edition army is going to have a repairman as we go forward.

I was mainly responding to this. Half of codexs dont have repairment and then the vast majority of lists dont have enough vehicles to make it worth while. I really doubt we are going to see a lot of repairmen in 6th and if we do it will because later codexes make them a lot better than the one in the CSM book.

He works very well with a hellbrute/landraider/helldrake/fiend army, and any shooting chaos army.

No one has mentioned one of his best qualities. He's cheap. No worries about your expensive chaos HQ turning into a spawn with the warpsmith. He also has another unique ability. He's BS 5.

I would consider attaching him to a unit of Obliterators and having the Warpsmith man an Icarus Lascannon either on a bastion or behind an ADL. This gives the unit 4 lascannon shots, one at BS 5. It satisfies the mandatory HQ choice for chaos and saves you a bunch of points.

6th is a shooting edition. What can hurt you in assault can be shot down at range

DarthDiggler wrote:
No one has mentioned one of his best qualities. He's cheap. No worries about your expensive chaos HQ turning into a spawn with the warpsmith. He also has another unique ability. He's BS 5.
I would consider attaching him to a unit of Obliterators and having the Warpsmith man an Icarus Lascannon either on a bastion or behind an ADL. This gives the unit 4 lascannon shots, one at BS 5. It satisfies the mandatory HQ choice for chaos and saves you a bunch of points.
6th is a shooting edition. What can hurt you in assault can be shot down at range

BS 5 isnt unique


The warpsmith costs 110 pts(or 105 i never can remember with the DA)
A chaos lord costs 65 points, also has BS5 and fearless. He also has higher WS, more wounds and attacks and he can make cult units troops.

Those oblitorators can only make lascannons every other turn, and the icarus lascannon doesnt sync with their other weapons. Also oblits can move and shoot, that is what is so great about them. I can see putting the IC with a unit of havocs, who cant move and shoot. He can protect them from combat harassment and they could take 4 lascannons, giving you 5.

Niether oblits, havocs, or warpsmiths have fearless. They could get swept, pinned, all kinds of horrible stuff.

Can't get swept on topic a bastion. Warpsmiths 2+ save syncs with the Oblits 2+ save. Move and shoot is nice, but not e reason to take Oblits. Shooting Lascannon, then plasma cannon, then Lascannon is the reason to take Oblits. Oblits have a better save vs. ap 2 weapons on top of a bastion or behind an ADL.



A Lord is a good option to get BS 5. I hadn't thought of that. I like the Warpsmith better.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Can't get swept on topic a bastion. Warpsmiths 2+ save syncs with the Oblits 2+ save. Move and shoot is nice, but not e reason to take Oblits. Shooting Lascannon, then plasma cannon, then Lascannon is the reason to take Oblits. Oblits have a better save vs. ap 2 weapons on top of a bastion or behind an ADL.

A Lord is a good option to get BS 5. I hadn't thought of that. I like the Warpsmith better.

To sync up you want different saves. IE a bunch of 3+ or 4+ models behind a 2+ character so that if the enemy uses dakka(ap4+) you can just roll your 2+ all day but if he switches to AP2 weapons you can LOS the damage back to cheaper 3+ or 4+ guys.

Having them all be 2+ means your opponent will know exaclty where to put his plasma, medusa and deomlisher templates. On top of a bastion even worse as the bastion is likely to take damage and collapse.

Oblits have a 5++ so they dont need cover as much as normal troops, also with the plasma cannons being able to move and shoot means you are more likely to get a great shot as opposed to a mediocer shot 1( model under the template).

Best use I found for mine is putting him on the base of a warhound as scenery.