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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







KurtAngle2 wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
What's a good start to an actually good/competitive Tyranid army? Just several boxes of Gaunts?


Nothing as of now, we're one of the worst armies out there to play competitively (things *MIGHT* change in December but I'm betting on the supplement not fixing anything since our problems are far more needing an entire codex reworked than mere additional rules)


Well that is deeply unfortunate.

When I say 'good' I mean able to go toe-to-toe with the slew of top-tier armies (not necessarily top-tier lists) such as Tau and Imperial Guard.

Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Chillicothe, OH

tneva82 wrote:
 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.


wouldn't matter because ultras can fall back and still shoot anyway, and at full bs. and add -1 ap. etc etc etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is everyones thoughts on the Uber-Lictor from FW? it seems to be a decent primaris killer if it can get the charge and why wouldn't it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/28 22:31:30


My Painting Blog, UPDATED!

Armies in 8th:
Minotaurs: 1-0-0
Thousand Sons: 15-3

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




The Dimacheron? It’s hecking awful. It’s got no rules that help it go fast except a worse fly, no native invuln so it’ll get shot to heck before it makes combat and doesn’t even do that much once it gets there. All for the low cost of 200 points. bargain
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Chillicothe, OH

What are some of your favorite units for fun? I find this guy hilariously effective:

Tyranid Prime - 79 pnts
Ymgarl Factor
Boneswords
Spine Fists
Flesh Hooks
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands
Endless Regenerations - OR - Instinctive Killer

Basically you get him stuck in, but the turn he gets to charge he gets:

4 pistol shots at S:3
2 flesh hook shots at S:5
5 Bone Sword attacks at S:5 which can double in damage from Toxin Sacs and you get to roll for Ymgarl beforehand. And even if they stay alive, you get to do that every turn on your turn.

And if you happen to have Warriors/Shrikes nearby, he adds bonuses to them before they charge in as well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/29 00:34:19


My Painting Blog, UPDATED!

Armies in 8th:
Minotaurs: 1-0-0
Thousand Sons: 15-3

 
   
Made in no
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






 nintura wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.


wouldn't matter because ultras can fall back and still shoot anyway, and at full bs. and add -1 ap. etc etc etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is everyones thoughts on the Uber-Lictor from FW? it seems to be a decent primaris killer if it can get the charge and why wouldn't it?


Tripoints means the unit cannot fall back because you have three models basing one

 
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




Auckland, NZ

 nintura wrote:
What are some of your favorite units for fun? I find this guy hilariously effective:

Tyranid Prime - 79 pnts
Ymgarl Factor
Boneswords
Spine Fists
Flesh Hooks
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands
Endless Regenerations - OR - Instinctive Killer

Basically you get him stuck in, but the turn he gets to charge he gets:

4 pistol shots at S:3
2 flesh hook shots at S:5
5 Bone Sword attacks at S:5 which can double in damage from Toxin Sacs and you get to roll for Ymgarl beforehand. And even if they stay alive, you get to do that every turn on your turn.

And if you happen to have Warriors/Shrikes nearby, he adds bonuses to them before they charge in as well.

You can't fire both the spinefists and the flesh hooks in the same turn. You can either fire your pistols, or your other guns, but not both. It's the same rule that stops space marines from firing both their bolters and bolt pistols at the same time.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Chillicothe, OH

Arson Fire wrote:
 nintura wrote:
What are some of your favorite units for fun? I find this guy hilariously effective:

Tyranid Prime - 79 pnts
Ymgarl Factor
Boneswords
Spine Fists
Flesh Hooks
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands
Endless Regenerations - OR - Instinctive Killer

Basically you get him stuck in, but the turn he gets to charge he gets:

4 pistol shots at S:3
2 flesh hook shots at S:5
5 Bone Sword attacks at S:5 which can double in damage from Toxin Sacs and you get to roll for Ymgarl beforehand. And even if they stay alive, you get to do that every turn on your turn.

And if you happen to have Warriors/Shrikes nearby, he adds bonuses to them before they charge in as well.

You can't fire both the spinefists and the flesh hooks in the same turn. You can either fire your pistols, or your other guns, but not both. It's the same rule that stops space marines from firing both their bolters and bolt pistols at the same time.


Well thats what i get for never playing gun armies....


To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though

My Painting Blog, UPDATED!

Armies in 8th:
Minotaurs: 1-0-0
Thousand Sons: 15-3

 
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




Auckland, NZ

 nintura wrote:

To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though

I've got to say it's hard to justify putting monsters into a Hydra list. It's the one hive fleet that does nothing for them. Hydra is heavily skewed towards pure swarms.
If you put the carnifexes in, your model count is low enough that I would recommend changing your list to use a different hive fleet. If there are only a couple of units in your list that are getting any benefit from the hive fleet, then it's not the right list for that fleet.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Chillicothe, OH

Arson Fire wrote:
 nintura wrote:

To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though

I've got to say it's hard to justify putting monsters into a Hydra list. It's the one hive fleet that does nothing for them. Hydra is heavily skewed towards pure swarms.
If you put the carnifexes in, your model count is low enough that I would recommend changing your list to use a different hive fleet. If there are only a couple of units in your list that are getting any benefit from the hive fleet, then it's not the right list for that fleet.


I agree but I love fluffy nid lists and Ive already painted my fleet as Hydra. The list has 20 gants, 30 gaunts, 10 stealers in 1k. But someone called me out for playing cheese against their ultramarine primaris list. Plus hordes dont do enough to kill primaris or armor. 75 rerolled attacks by a 25 man strong horm squad and I ended up only doing 4 unsaved wounds to primaris marines.... i need some support

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/10/29 20:36:57


My Painting Blog, UPDATED!

Armies in 8th:
Minotaurs: 1-0-0
Thousand Sons: 15-3

 
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




Auckland, NZ

That's not cheese even the slightest bit. Your opponent was talking gak.

It's true that tyranid hordes do not kill things though. Outside of genestealers at least.
Tyranid hordes are more geared towards speedily advancing towards, surrounding, and locking down enemy units. Tarpitting them for the whole game while you win on objectives.

If you're dead set on sticking with Hydra, then give it a shot. The carnifexes won't be as good as they would be with another fleet, but they're still alright.

Another option is instead of two carnifexes, add Old One Eye. He's a 9 wound character, so can hide behind your swarms. Giving you a big punchy combat monster, that still denies your enemies anti-tank guns a target.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Chillicothe, OH

Arson Fire wrote:
That's not cheese even the slightest bit. Your opponent was talking gak.

It's true that tyranid hordes do not kill things though. Outside of genestealers at least.
Tyranid hordes are more geared towards speedily advancing towards, surrounding, and locking down enemy units. Tarpitting them for the whole game while you win on objectives.

If you're dead set on sticking with Hydra, then give it a shot. The carnifexes won't be as good as they would be with another fleet, but they're still alright.

Another option is instead of two carnifexes, add Old One Eye. He's a 9 wound character, so can hide behind your swarms. Giving you a big punchy combat monster, that still denies your enemies anti-tank guns a target.


I could do:

2x neurothrope
15x genestealer
20x hormagaunts
2x20 termagants with 10 devs
1x trygon prime
1x carnifex with enh senses, bone tail, crushing claws, heavy ven cannon, spore cysts

This gives me speed, pressure by weight of options and 79 models for 997 points. Maybe throw in adrenal glands on the fex or trygon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arson Fire wrote:
That's not cheese even the slightest bit. Your opponent was talking gak.

It's true that tyranid hordes do not kill things though. Outside of genestealers at least.
Tyranid hordes are more geared towards speedily advancing towards, surrounding, and locking down enemy units. Tarpitting them for the whole game while you win on objectives.

If you're dead set on sticking with Hydra, then give it a shot. The carnifexes won't be as good as they would be with another fleet, but they're still alright.

Another option is instead of two carnifexes, add Old One Eye. He's a 9 wound character, so can hide behind your swarms. Giving you a big punchy combat monster, that still denies your enemies anti-tank guns a target.


So you're saying the best way to use Horms is as a speedy tarpit that can Pile in 6" so they surround an enemy unit, preventing them from falling back? That makes quite a bit of sense actually.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/29 22:42:00


My Painting Blog, UPDATED!

Armies in 8th:
Minotaurs: 1-0-0
Thousand Sons: 15-3

 
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




Auckland, NZ

 nintura wrote:

So you're saying the best way to use Horms is as a speedy tarpit that can Pile in 6" so they surround an enemy unit, preventing them from falling back? That makes quite a bit of sense actually.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Hormagaunts are a fast tarpit unit, that use their 6" pile-in + consolidate moves to surround enemy models, and drag in additional units.
No matter what buffs you give them, hormagaunts will never be an efficient unit for winning in close combat. That is simply not their job. Leave that to the genestealers.

If I can get my hormagaunts into the opponents tanks, I will happily surround them, taking both my hormagaunts and those tanks out of the fight. Potentially for the rest of the game if my opponent has nothing in position to fight the gaunts and rescue the tanks.
If I can surround a single shooty guy, like a hellblaster. Then his unit is no longer able to fall back, even if the rest of them are not surrounded. So his whole unit is going to be stuck until the hormagaunts are dealt with, or the trapped model dies (there are a number of tricks you can use to minimise or eliminate your opponents ability to do that).

This sort of stuff is a lot easier to do with Kraken, as the ability to fall back from combat then charge back in opens up a lot of options. It makes it more difficult for your opponent to intercept you, by doing something like driving a rhino into your gaunts to prevent them from charging his important units.
But it still applies with any hive fleet.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Chillicothe, OH

Well here's hoping that Hydra gets some love Another list I like the looks of:

Neuro
Warrior Prime w/ Bone Swords, Deathspitter, Adrenal, Ymgarl, Toxin and whatever warlord trait you want
10 Genestealers
30 Horms
2x20 Terms with 10 Devs each
5 Warriors with Boneswords, Adrenal, and Deathspitters, 1 with Venom Cannon
Trygon Prime

88 models, almost all of them gain the Hive Fleet bonus.

The warriors benefit immensely from the prime, knocking them down to BS 3+ or hitting on 2+ in melee, and allowing them to Advance and fire with no penalty. Adrenal on all 6 models allow them a small increased chance to make combat. The 30 Horms can easily be moved into position to block off retreat and the Neuro can give them Catalyst so they stay there.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/30 02:25:00


My Painting Blog, UPDATED!

Armies in 8th:
Minotaurs: 1-0-0
Thousand Sons: 15-3

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Is the Christmas battleforce worth it in terms of competitive units?

I'm potentially getting back into Tyranids and was wondering if that box is a good jumping off point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/31 10:22:53


5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar W/L/D 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 17/6/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
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Chillicothe, OH

I play Hydra so ill be needing it. Competitive wise it has termagants, carnifexes, hive tyrant, and genestealers. All staples

My Painting Blog, UPDATED!

Armies in 8th:
Minotaurs: 1-0-0
Thousand Sons: 15-3

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Do Hive Tyrants need to have wings to be good or is foot slogging a valid option? I have an old metal Tyrant and he is on foot.

What are generally the guidelines for a competitive Tyranid list these days?

5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar W/L/D 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 17/6/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 nintura wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.


wouldn't matter because ultras can fall back and still shoot anyway, and at full bs. and add -1 ap. etc etc etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is everyones thoughts on the Uber-Lictor from FW? it seems to be a decent primaris killer if it can get the charge and why wouldn't it?


Not if you tripoint. Aka surround one model so that it can't move through your bases. Do that and unit can't fall back. Takes 3 models. Apart from that don't split unit as even 5 primaris has 10 wounds that means 30 saves to be forced. That's tall order for lots of unit. Even full ork unit does just 40 and getting 30 orks to 5 primaris is hard. Can't afford to split too much. Tesla immortal shooting? Fully buffed 30 hits, 20 wounds.

And incidentally hormagaunts are pretty darn good for tripointing. Cheap and very fast

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/31 16:09:04


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant




Tampa, FL

I was considering revisiting my nids that I never got around to finishing, only to see that they are one of the worst competitive armies currently. This is sad, but I do love the fact they are like one of the most flexible armies out there since you really can do almost anything with any playstyle. Which is the #1 thing that attracted me to them; the level of variety that you got.

I guess the one good thing is if they are bad in comp play anyways that means I don't need to spam Genestealers if I don't want to, and I can focus on mostly Nidzilla with a few swarms of Termas/Hormas. Never did care for Genestealers that much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/05 15:36:41


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






nintura wrote:
To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though


Perhaps consider some Tyrant Guard broods? With Hydra the Crushing Claw variant can actually hit reasonably hard against vehicles (brood of 3-6 vs single model) and they play well with the other multi-wound infantry.


Wayniac wrote:I was considering revisiting my nids that I never got around to finishing, only to see that they are one of the worst competitive armies currently.


I dunno. I've seen some tournament placements from Tyranids + GSC (Tyrands are the anvil, GSC the hammer). I do think that the traditional Kraken Swarmy-Stealer lists and Jormungandr lists aren't so optimal any more, but I'm not sure if every avenue has been explored yet.

For instance, part of me is curious to see if an invul spam list would work at all. We can technically build lists where everything has an invulnerable save to tailor for the current high AP environment, just a matter of figuring out how to balance out the individual components so that there are enough bodies and damage output to make the list work.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/07 02:53:00


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





I think Erik Lathouras horde Nids are probably the most competitive right now, though it uses a small detachment of GSC it’s 80% Nids. I think it could work without them but there’s no real reason to turn down a cheap battalion for the easy Cp, powers, utility, and bite that just a few units can bring.
   
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London, UK

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I think Erik Lathouras horde Nids are probably the most competitive right now, though it uses a small detachment of GSC it’s 80% Nids. I think it could work without them but there’s no real reason to turn down a cheap battalion for the easy Cp, powers, utility, and bite that just a few units can bring.


Do you have a link to the list? I'd be keen on trying it out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/07 10:14:56


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Trying to help my fiancee' out with her nid army. She has an impressive amount of nids, about 3.5k plus another 2k in GSC. However she doesnt have 60+ of say guants or genestealers. Max 40ish guants and 32 genestealers. Also 4 carnifexes, swarmlord, 2 flyrants, exo and nearly 1-2 of every other unit.

The 6 Hive Guard are she has are auto include, but what would be one of the better ways to build a 1.5k list or 2k?
   
Made in us
Parachuting Para-Commando




San Bruno, CA

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I think Erik Lathouras horde Nids are probably the most competitive right now, though it uses a small detachment of GSC it’s 80% Nids. I think it could work without them but there’s no real reason to turn down a cheap battalion for the easy Cp, powers, utility, and bite that just a few units can bring.


Do you have a link to the list? I'd be keen on trying it out.


His ETC list:

Spoiler:
HQ: Broodlord (115) Monstrous Rending Claws (0) [8PL, 115pts]
- Psychic Powers: Smite, The Horror
HQ: Old One Eye (200) Monstrous Crushing Claws (0), Monstrous Scything Talons (0),
Thresher Scythe (0)
[10PL, 200pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Elites: 4x Venomthrope (30) 4x toxic lashes (0) [9PL, 120pts]
Heavy Support: 2x Biovores (50) 2x sporemine launcher (0) [4PL,100pts]

== Detachment 2: < Tyranids, Leviathan > Battalion Detachment == +5 cp, 500pts
HQ: Neurothrope (90) claws and teeth (0) [4PL 90pts] Psychic Powers: Smite, Psychic
Scream HQ: Neurothrope (90) claws and teeth (0) [4PL 90pts] Psychic Powers: Smite,
Onslaught
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 26x Termagants (4) 26x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 104pts]

== Detachment 3: < Genestealer Cults, Mixed Detachment> Vanguard Detachment ==
+1cp, 425 pts
Patriarch (125) Monstrous Rending Claws (0) 1x Familiar (12) [8PL, 137pts] - Bladed Cog
- Psychic Powers: Smite, Mass Hypnosis, Mental Onslaught
[WARLORD: Single-minded Obsession]
Troops: 16 Acolyte Hybrid: 15 Acolyte Hybrids (105) w/15x Hand Flamer (15), Acolyte
Leader (7) w/Hand Flamer (1), Cultist Knife (0), 16 Rending Claws (0) [11PL, 128pts] -
Bladed Cog
Elite: Kelermorph (60) 3x Liberator Autostub (0), Cultist Knife (0) [3PL 60pts] - Four-armed
Emperor
Elite: Locus (40) Hypermorph Tail (0), Locus Blades (0) [2PL 40pts] - Bladed Cog
ELite: Sanctus (55) Familiar Claws (0), Silencer Sniper Rifle (5) (3PL 60pts) - Four-armed
Emperor


You can find part 1 of the podcast episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NcOFYfgaE

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/09 01:08:03


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Which do you guys think is the better purchase to support a kraken stealer list with OOE and hiveguard.

2x 4 Zoanthropes

Or

4 Melee Carnifex

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/09 11:03:44


 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






IronVaught wrote:
Which do you guys think is the better purchase to support a kraken stealer list with OOE and hiveguard.

2x 4 Zoanthropes

Or

4 Melee Carnifex



I'd probably go with the Carnifexes. They give you a bit of added value from Old One Eye's aura and they really like Kraken's trait. Added speed is always helpful, but the second part also allows them to keep Living Battering Ram going every turn for added mortal wounds.
   
Made in de
Powerful Chaos Warrior






https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/24/coming-soon-blood-of-baal-battleforces-and-beyond/
This sounds good i hope we get SM like chapter tactics and points drops so we can be competitive again. I really want to play my tyranids in tournaments but i also not want to auto loose.

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Dakka Veteran





Well we get build a bear custom hive fleets and some way to customize individual units, as well as more relics, WL traits a d strats. It's a good start, even if its lacking in details.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

My worry is if it turns into the old version of custom tyranids that they tried several editions back with the previous wave of tyranid models. Those rules were so open to custom designs that not only could they become very quickly broken in terms of power; but they also were very complicated for anyone to work with - doubly so when its not just swapping numbers or cards or such; but swapping around with physical models. You can't magnetize every single thing (I mean you can but you might go all kinds of crazy).

Kinda sad that there's no new Tyranid model (seriously GW what does it take to make a bio/pyro vore kit and a new lictor/leaper kit in plastic?)

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Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

The "broken in terms of power" boat has sailed at this point. Wonder how many things this book will add to the Codex Marines.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
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