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Hi all,

I am currently running what I feel to be one of the more competitive Chaos Space Marine builds - an Epidemius-Nurgle CSM build. My army typically consists of:

Typhus
Epidemius
2-3 units of zombie cultists
2-3 units of plague marines or Nurgle CSM
Plaguebearers
1 unit of Chaos Spawn
1 Heldrake
2 units of Nurgle Oblits
ADL w/guad-guns (if there are enough points leftovers)

So far it's been doing well. I've only lost 1 game with them so far, though I haven't played a lot of games with them and most of my games are around the 2K level. One of the problems of my army, however, is that it doesn't scale well as you go down in points (to 1500 or less).

I haven't really had the opportunity to explore some of the other Chaos builds. So I was wondering, what other builds besides Nurgle do you feel Chaos is competitive with? What army builds have you had some success with? Do you feel that we need allies to compete? Feel free to share your army lists or army lists that you've seen if you like. BTW, while I am not looking for another mono-Nurgle build, I think it's ok to include Nurgle units in a hybrid Chaos army that you think is competitive.

You do know that zombies aren't nurgle models right?

Anyway, all of the gods options are great in the new CSM book.

Khrone rocks with the furious charge and re-roll charge range icon, plus having rage and counterattack.

Slanessh helps quite a bit with +1 int but also can take an icon for feel no pain.

Tzeentch shines on any unit with an invul save, terminators and possessed, as well as oblits just got harder to deal with.

I don't use allies, hell I don't always take my two dragons, and I never take an aegis line. Still works, still kills, sill wins.

Furthermore I've had great success using abby and chosen, plus three hellbrutes with power scourges, being a no-god list.

Perhaps you could be the one to get chosenwing to work, that's an interesting build IMO.

 juraigamer wrote:
You do know that zombies aren't nurgle models right?

When I say Nurgle army, that doesn't necessarily mean that every unit inside has to have a MoN. Unmarked units are ok, as long as the majority of the units are Nurgle and there are no other gods within a mono-god army.

Anyway, all of the gods options are great in the new CSM book.

Khrone rocks with the furious charge and re-roll charge range icon, plus having rage and counterattack.

Slanessh helps quite a bit with +1 int but also can take an icon for feel no pain.

Tzeentch shines on any unit with an invul save, terminators and possessed, as well as oblits just got harder to deal with.

I don't use allies, hell I don't always take my two dragons, and I never take an aegis line. Still works, still kills, sill wins.

Furthermore I've had great success using abby and chosen, plus three hellbrutes with power scourges, being a no-god list.

To me, it seems as if Khorne has been nerfed in this edition. With the nerfs to rhinos, furious charge, number of attacks and also with the Champion of Chaos rule, I'm having a tough time coming up with a Khorne army that I like. Probably the only unit of Khorne which I like is a Lord on Juggernaut with the Axe of Fury accompanied by some Chaos Spawns.

I think Slaanesh can still be very good, though their icon is very expensive.

I'm also having a hard time making pure Tzeentch work.

Perhaps a hybrid army with multiple gods, including Nurgle, can work?

I also feel that allies aren't necessary to make a competitive Chaos army....but they do help. The chaos army has some holes that are best filled by taking allies.

Nythryl wrote:
Perhaps you could be the one to get chosenwing to work, that's an interesting build IMO.

This is what I am thinking for a competitive Chosenwing list. Not sure on the points level as I don't have my 'dex with me currently, but I envision it to be something like this:

Abaddabadon
2x5 Chosen - 2-3x Meltas, Rhinos
2x5 Chosen - 2-3x Plasmas, Rhinos
20-30x Cultists - Autoguns

4-5x Bikers - 2x Plasmas
Heldrake
Heldrake

1 or 2 units of 3 Oblits - MoN, Veterans
1 or 2 units of Havocs - 4x Autocannons

I like it, and assume Abby is going with cultists? If so I'm unsure as to whether or not this is taking full advantage of his cc prowess. I could see dropping the cultists (fantastic as they are) and a unit of Plasma chosen for a blob of 15-20 normal csm you lose 25 bodies and around one special wep an a rhino for a wall of power armor that can be kitted out to serve as a powerful counter assault screen with abbadon.

I've seen people have success with Huron based armies. Infiltrating 15-20 CSMs supported by bikers and havocs.

Nythryl wrote:
I like it, and assume Abby is going with cultists? If so I'm unsure as to whether or not this is taking full advantage of his cc prowess. I could see dropping the cultists (fantastic as they are) and a unit of Plasma chosen for a blob of 15-20 normal csm you lose 25 bodies and around one special wep an a rhino for a wall of power armor that can be kitted out to serve as a powerful counter assault screen with abbadon.

Yes, Abby will go with the cultists to make them fearless and more resilient. Cultists will be a sacrificial and screening unit in this case. They will rush up with Abaddon until he is within assault range. Then Abaddon can break off from the unit if necessary.

You can't put Abaddon in the rhinos with the chosen and putting him in the rear with oblits is the opposite of taking advantage of his cc prowess.

The reason why I don't run 15-20 csm is because they actually make the army less efficient. The strategy for such a list is to spam the special weapons - meltas and plasmas. With the exception of the very cheap cultists, if you run large blobs, you will have less special weapons and thus less killing power. Abaddon doesn't need a body of 20 MEQ's to accompany him. What he needs is cheap cannon fodder to get him from point A to point B for him to kill stuff. At least that is my philosophy on how to play this type of list. Lots of special weapon firepower with heldrakes to mop up infantry and Abaddon to kill whatever is in his way.

 minigun762 wrote:
I've seen people have success with Huron based armies. Infiltrating 15-20 CSMs supported by bikers and havocs.

Hmmm....got to think about how to build a decent infiltrating Chaos army, unless someone already has one out there that's doing pretty good.

Khorne berzerkers are the only nerf. First off stop talking rhinos for anything that doesn't shoot. It hurt you in 5th, it hurts more in 6th.

With khorne, you can simply flood the field with models, and with the old khorne icon, re-rolling the charge ranges makes these guys work. When you make an 11 or 12 in charge on turn one, it seems overpowered.

A pure tzeentch list that I run looks something like this: 2 sorcerers, 5 termies with raider, 2x9 thousand sons, 2x 12 cultists with autoguns, 2x 3 oblits. Not putting in upgrades, but both sorcerers have spell familliar and it basically presents one av 14 with death, flanked by 4++ troops, flanked by 4++ oblits, and I march towards my enemy. Very fun and effective, just watch out for guard and their large blasts.

Slanessh makes the most of large squads with FNP.

You could easily make an army with a few plague marines for home objectives, some noise marines or normal marines marching towards the enemy with FNP, and slanessh FNP raptors with a lord, rounding it off with a few nurgle oblits.

As for abby lists, I've run and crushed others with the following: abby of course, 3x hellbrutes with power scourge, 8 chosen with 3 melta and fist, 10 chosen with 3 plasma in rhino, MOS-ed with FNP, 2x 6 chosen with missile launcher, 2 helldrakes and a landraider. The armor saturation is huge, furthermore the cheap hellbrutes that lower enemy WS is great too. Never discount the power scourge, nothing like charging a monsterous creature and making it hit me on 5's.

I've also been interested in Chosenwing, yet haven't found an effective way of doing it. Instinct tells me to run msu of chosen in rhinos with plasma, Abby with a unit of Terminators, round it out with ADL, a unit of cultists to camp home objective/fire quad gun, a Heldrake or two, and either Nurgle Oblits or Autocannon Havocs.

I keep getting tempted to mark the chosen to make them live longer and this makes them too expensive.

I've been running the massed bodies approach;

Slaanesh Lord on Bike
6 Slaanesh Bikes
3x10 Marines
2 Drakes
2x5 Havocs
CCS
40 man blob with 4 Lascannons

Funnily enough the only unit I've found lacking are the Bikes, however I'm used to a defensive playstyle so still need to get used to them, and it doesn't help that I suck at rolling FNP

Anyway, it has a lot of bodies and a lot of shooting. 47 Marines and 50 Guardsmen as well as the Drakes; 99 models. I've found CCS very important for allied Guard who are not Battle Brothers, as without Divination to back them Bring It Down really helps them out in the right situations.

Haven't faced a flyer heavy army with it yet, but I reckon the weight of numbers should allow me to sweat it out as the Havocs chip away at them.

I've tested the following list and had success. Only tried vs competitive Nids, BA, Crons, GK, and Tau/Eldar but its looked somewhat promising.

2x Nurgle Prices w/ wings, 3 Psyker levels, and one Black Mace.

4x 10 CSM with 2x plas

2x 10 cults

3x Maulers with Tendrils

1x Heldrake

Princes are very costly but it creates 6 very mobile and very high profile threats that are fairly survivable. It forces your opponent to focus on them and leave the 40 bodies alone which end up doing a lot more than expected in damage output.

Very concerned about Cron Air.

 Cpt Stubbs wrote:
I've tested the following list and had success. Only tried vs competitive Nids, BA, Crons, GK, and Tau/Eldar but its looked somewhat promising.

2x Nurgle Prices w/ wings, 3 Psyker levels, and one Black Mace.

4x 10 CSM with 2x plas

2x 10 cults

3x Maulers with Tendrils

1x Heldrake

Princes are very costly but it creates 6 very mobile and very high profile threats that are fairly survivable. It forces your opponent to focus on them and leave the 40 bodies alone which end up doing a lot more than expected in damage output.

Very concerned about Cron Air.

I'd really like to see another drake. Dropping the mastery levels from the princes will almost pay for it.

I agree and just have not had the model but soon will. The Psyker levels have almost always come in handy in some way (usually by giving a 4+ DTW) but would really help bring down the cost of those two units.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I've been running the massed bodies approach;

Slaanesh Lord on Bike
6 Slaanesh Bikes
3x10 Marines
2 Drakes
2x5 Havocs
CCS
40 man blob with 4 Lascannons

Anyway, it has a lot of bodies and a lot of shooting. 47 Marines and 50 Guardsmen as well as the Drakes; 99 models. I've found CCS very important for allied Guard who are not Battle Brothers, as without Divination to back them Bring It Down really helps them out in the right situations.

I have been running similar
1 drake
1 vendetta
5 havocs 4autocannons
6 havocs lascannons
Lord on a bike with brand
5 spawn
7 slanesh bikers with 2 plasma and icon.
15 CC marines with 2 melta
10 shooty marines with 2 plasma
CCS with master of ordinance and lascannon
PCS naked(so far)
10 melta vets
30 man blob with 3 autocannons

 juraigamer wrote:
Khorne berzerkers are the only nerf. First off stop talking rhinos for anything that doesn't shoot. It hurt you in 5th, it hurts more in 6th.

With khorne, you can simply flood the field with models, and with the old khorne icon, re-rolling the charge ranges makes these guys work. When you make an 11 or 12 in charge on turn one, it seems overpowered.

A pure tzeentch list that I run looks something like this: 2 sorcerers, 5 termies with raider, 2x9 thousand sons, 2x 12 cultists with autoguns, 2x 3 oblits. Not putting in upgrades, but both sorcerers have spell familliar and it basically presents one av 14 with death, flanked by 4++ troops, flanked by 4++ oblits, and I march towards my enemy. Very fun and effective, just watch out for guard and their large blasts.

Slanessh makes the most of large squads with FNP.

You could easily make an army with a few plague marines for home objectives, some noise marines or normal marines marching towards the enemy with FNP, and slanessh FNP raptors with a lord, rounding it off with a few nurgle oblits.

As for abby lists, I've run and crushed others with the following: abby of course, 3x hellbrutes with power scourge, 8 chosen with 3 melta and fist, 10 chosen with 3 plasma in rhino, MOS-ed with FNP, 2x 6 chosen with missile launcher, 2 helldrakes and a landraider. The armor saturation is huge, furthermore the cheap hellbrutes that lower enemy WS is great too. Never discount the power scourge, nothing like charging a monsterous creature and making it hit me on 5's.

Yeah, Khorne Berserkers received the bigger nerf in 6th. Rhinos are out of the pictures for assault units. So whats left for khorne is to get as many fast units as possible, like spawn/Jugg lord and blob units of marines are good. They don't always need to be assault too, bolters with CSM in rhino or blob units can do some serious shooting in center table.

Also, Daemon allies help khorne alot with speed and model count. Khorne I think can be somewhat of a fast horde army, you can either go all out assault with 3 maulerfiends and lots of spawn or go with 2 HDs, 1 Spawn, and oblits for support fire.

Takes a lot of though to come up with a competitive khorne list, but it is possible... very possible, and with the right player it can be devastating.

powerful necro!