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Im mind boggled anyone has a problem with the new fluff. Unless you liked your fluff like a black spray painted wall; monocrome and no real writing, then your all set here.

In all seriousness, this race is waking up, very vulnerable and willing to wheel and deal to get their kingdoms back.... So unless your now going to say Orks are unable to be fooled or manipulated (half the eldar fluff?) then there is nothing here to be upset over.

The Decapitator wrote:

To answer your question, no they cannot split fire.

However, think about this. Gauss Cannons are S5 which means they will affect anything up to Armour 11 (DE Raiders and the like), but with it being Gauss it will auto glance on a 6 anyway. So from a squad of 3 Destroyers and 2 Heavy Destroyers on a LR you can get a *potential* 2 x Penetrating and 3 Glancing hits.

They don't need to split fire, any Gauss weapon has the potential to hurt anything with an armour value.

Bring Scarabs into play and you make that even better.

I may not have expressed myself clearly in the original post. What I was trying to get as was, yes the gauss can potentially hurt armour so its not really a major issue with the AP 2 and medium strength on the normal destroyers these are essentially anti-infantry. The way I'm looking at it now is if you put some Heavy Destroyers in the same unit you making the unit anti-armour and most of the ap 2 stuff could be seen as "wasted" since even the basic squad of necrons can glance a LR to death (something I have done quite often). I suppose it comes down to personal choice but for me I think I would rather run 5 normal destroyers and have more of an anti-infantry unit and rely on the bigger stuff to take out armour (e.g. all the other anti-armour mentioned through out this thread) while still retaining the possibility of glancing on the normal destroyers for the crew stunned/shaken results from most of my glancing hits.

I'm just gonna drop a last thing about destroyers their gauss cannons are only 24" it took me a few to get past that yesterday. Th H. Gauss cannon is still 36"

Scoffer wrote:
I may not have expressed myself clearly in the original post. What I was trying to get as was, yes the gauss can potentially hurt armour so its not really a major issue with the AP 2 and medium strength on the normal destroyers these are essentially anti-infantry. The way I'm looking at it now is if you put some Heavy Destroyers in the same unit you making the unit anti-armour and most of the ap 2 stuff could be seen as "wasted" since even the basic squad of necrons can glance a LR to death (something I have done quite often). I suppose it comes down to personal choice but for me I think I would rather run 5 normal destroyers and have more of an anti-infantry unit and rely on the bigger stuff to take out armour (e.g. all the other anti-armour mentioned through out this thread)

Yes, but your Destroyers are now shooting one less shot per model, which makes a big difference if you're trying to glance something to death.

However, I'm sure there will be some people sticking with pure Heavy squads vs. regular squads and I'm sure we'll see some people trying mixing a few Heavies in with some regulars...I guess the one good thing for people who have max Destroyers and max Heavy Destroyers for the 3rd edition codex is they have all the models they need to try out every single variation before they figure out what works best for them!

So i've got a rules question (that should probably go to YMDC as of Nov 5 2011, but for now i'll post it here):

Vehicles treat difficult terrain as if it were dangerous, yes? So immediately, the c'tan power that effects all area terrain becomes a 33% chance to immobilize enemy vehicles, just for them trying to move into it. Factor in Orikan the diviner's power, and the enemy has to make a choice on turn 1 - risk immobilizing their vehicles on a roll of 1, or 2, or stay in their deployment zone and wait for the pain.

Do you remember that time that you were inches away from victory in a capture and control game, and at the last minute a venom or raider or land speeder turbo-boosted to just within 3", contesting the objective and costing you a victory? Now with the c'tan in play you can target those skimmers with a tremorstave, and leave them a 1/3 chance to immobilize and become destroyed if they try any shenanigans like this...or you can plan ahead and place your objectives in area terrain to start with.

So the main issue is does the c'tan power affect vehicles, if so, does their dangerous terrain become double-dangerous as per the wording of the rule?

Also in dawn of war you'll kill 33 percent of the enemy's transports before they can even roll on the table. rock.

tetrisphreak wrote:So i've got a rules question (that should probably go to YMDC as of Nov 5 2011, but for now i'll post it here):

Vehicles treat difficult terrain as if it were dangerous, yes? So immediately, the c'tan power that effects all area terrain becomes a 33% chance to immobilize enemy vehicles, just for them trying to move into it. Factor in Orikan the diviner's power, and the enemy has to make a choice on turn 1 - risk immobilizing their vehicles on a roll of 1, or 2, or stay in their deployment zone and wait for the pain.

Do you remember that time that you were inches away from victory in a capture and control game, and at the last minute a venom or raider or land speeder turbo-boosted to just within 3", contesting the objective and costing you a victory? Now with the c'tan in play you can target those skimmers with a tremorstave, and leave them a 1/3 chance to immobilize and become destroyed if they try any shenanigans like this...or you can plan ahead and place your objectives in area terrain to start with.

So the main issue is does the c'tan power affect vehicles, if so, does their dangerous terrain become double-dangerous as per the wording of the rule?

Also in dawn of war you'll kill 33 percent of the enemy's transports before they can even roll on the table. rock.

I think they will have to FAQ the answer when it comes to Orkian's first turn ability and whether it couples with the C'Tan power. The C'Tan power actually says (in my version):

'Whilst the C'tan is on the battlefield, all difficult terrain is also dangerous for the enemy. If the terrain is already dangerous, the Dangerous Terrain test is failed on a 1 or 2.'


Whereas Orkian's rule says:

'During the first turn of the game, all enemy units are treated as moving through difficult terrain...'


So I could see the argument that the C'Tan's power is only affecting actual terrain, but then again I see the opposite argument as well (which is why it needs to be FAQ'd most likely).

Of course the C'Tan power is called 'Writhing Worldscape' and clearly is meant to display the actual world rising up to attack the enemy, which doesn't really make sense for units that simply have to move as though they're in difficult terrain, so I could see GW ruling based on that alone for their FAQ.



And of course, if someone is running that combo and they do rule that it works, you'll just probably see people hold their vehicles in true reserves for Dawn of War missions (so they can't come on in the first turn).

So this new fluff is actually making me laugh instead of nerd rage, finally I think Mr. Ward has earned a pass from me. I'll still reserve final judgment for when I get my own book.

Well, at least they are cheaper and have two wounds, it's only a 5+++ at the end of the day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People hating the new fluff should grab a copy of Rogue Trader of eBay, that's some truely crazy fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just one more thing. What's the wording on the monolith portal rules, is it that any non-vehicle unit may use it i.e. C'tan shards, or is there a big list of who can and can't use it like the old dex?

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Just one more thing. What's the wording on the monolith portal rules, is it that any non-vehicle unit may use it i.e. C'tan shards, or is there a big list of who can and can't use it like the old dex?

I think it was stated earlier that only Necrons can use the portal. So no Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, C'tan. That makes sense to me...most of those seem a little too nasty given teleport capabilities.

What are the point costs for a phase shifter and this 2+ armor thing for a lesser Lord ?

someone with the codex can tell witch of the special characters have power weapons

whigwam wrote:

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Just one more thing. What's the wording on the monolith portal rules, is it that any non-vehicle unit may use it i.e. C'tan shards, or is there a big list of who can and can't use it like the old dex?

I think it was stated earlier that only Necrons can use the portal. So no Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, C'tan. That makes sense to me...most of those seem a little too nasty given teleport capabilities.

There is no mention of any special rule "necron" in the dex, they only have the rule: reanimation protocols. however I can't remember much about that portal thingy, sorry.

On the saves part, the 2+ as is pretty cheap, and the phaseshifter is inthe top of the upgrade range, but it is a 3++ so I guess that is fair

The portal allows any non-vehicle unit to be teleported, but given that they count as disembarking from a moving vehicle automatically when they do so, I fail to see how it is too powerful to allow Scarabs, Spyders or even C'Tan to do so.

yakface wrote:
The portal allows any non-vehicle unit to be teleported, but given that they count as disembarking from a moving vehicle automatically when they do so, I fail to see how it is too powerful to allow Scarabs, Spyders or even C'Tan to do so.

Well, I am glad to be wrong. It'll be awesome having mobile cover to support Scarabs and Wraiths.

So what's the plan here guys - 200-page thread by launch day?

I think by combining Orikan+C'tan and Anrakyr+ccb, you have a scary combination.
Anrakyr-165 pts
CCB-80 pts
C'tan w/ terrain afftect-maybe 240 pts? (i don't know the cost)
Orikan- maybe 120pts? (i don't know the cost)
A royal court x5 cryptek with tremor staffs-200 pts? (i don't know the cost)

Right there that is 805 points, but in a 2500 point game it might be worth it.


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H.B.M.C. wrote:So what's the plan here guys - 200-page thread by launch day?

Makes sense, since the cost for 5 praetorians, 5 lychguard with no shields, 5 regular destroyers, 2 regular destroyers+2heavy destroyers, and a monolith all cost 200 points, so why not?

H.B.M.C. wrote:So what's the plan here guys - 200-page thread by launch day?

Yes, we have been carefully planning for weeks. If this comment pushes us over to 201 pages, you will have ruined everything.

Dimensional Corridor: At the start of the movement phase, choose one friendly non engaged non-vehicle Necron unit on the battlefield or in reserve. That unit immediately phased out from it's current position and 'disembarks' from the monoliths portal. Any model that cannot be placed are removed ad casualties, but the move is otherwise treated as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed.

The Sempiternal Weave is 15 points for a lord or Overlord.
The Phase Shifter is 45 points for a lord or Overlord.

Yak is right about the C'tan diff/dangerous terrain rule.

Orikan has the Staff of Tomorrow, doesn't state that it's a PW but does say that it re-rolls Hits and ignored armour saves.

Vargard Obyrob has a Warscythe.

Anrakyr has a Warscythe.

So as the release approaches I've been trying to figure the best way to deal with a Termi-deathstar with the new rules, I know i could just drop template upon template, but i'm making the assumption that they outflank/ DS.

I'm thinking Lychguard with shields and a spyder would be an effective way of at least tying them up.

What do you think will be most effective?

Judging from the wargear descriptions and the artwork in the book, do you feel it's going to be easy to use a generic lord/cryptek to represent these special characters until their specific models come out?

tetrisphreak wrote:Judging from the wargear descriptions and the artwork in the book, do you feel it's going to be easy to use a generic lord/cryptek to represent these special characters until their specific models come out?

Shouldn't be terribly hard, but I think it'll be a 'counts as' type deal for a lot of people.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Codex confirmation wishlist:
Destroyers: 1-5?
Reanimation Protocols: On everything non-C'Tan? Not on Scarabs/Spyders/Wraiths?
Warscythes: Has 2d6 penetration been confirmed?
Imotekh(sp?)/Solar Pulse: wording issues/comparing? Does a Pulse make the rain stop permanently?

Any chance of a scan/picture of the art for Wraiths, Spyders, and Scythes of various shapes and flavors, so we know what to expect for the new models?

I'm not sure if all this has been answered, but I've had my coffee now and I'll take a crack at anything anyone wants to know. I don't have the codex here at work, but I can always look at it at lunch if I don't remember.

Destroyers ARE 1-5.
No RP for everything you listed.
Warscythes ARE 2D6 : )
Solar Pulse gets rid of lightning.

@Swara - Does Imotekh get a power weapon of any kind? (Thanks in advance!)

whigwam wrote:@Swara - Does Imotekh get a power weapon of any kind? (Thanks in advance!)

It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.

whigwam wrote:@Swara - Does Imotekh get a power weapon of any kind? (Thanks in advance!)

Oh man.. I think he's one I didn't look at very much last night. (I'm much more about the hero and bodyguard duo). If no one else knows I'll take a peak at lunch.


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Sasori wrote:

whigwam wrote:@Swara - Does Imotekh get a power weapon of any kind? (Thanks in advance!)

It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.

If it's a gauntlet than he "just" gets rerolls to hit and to wound in CC and a standard flamer template.

Swara wrote:

Sasori wrote:It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.

If it's a gauntlet than he "just" gets rerolls to hit and to wound in CC and a standard flamer template.

That was what it looked like to me as well. Just was having a hard time believing a 225 pt character with excellent armor and no power weapon.

There's only 3 characters with PW, they are listed a few posts above.

whigwam wrote:

Swara wrote:

Sasori wrote:It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.

If it's a gauntlet than he "just" gets rerolls to hit and to wound in CC and a standard flamer template.

That was what it looked like to me as well. Just was having a hard time believing a 225 pt character with excellent armor and no power weapon.

Seems like to me that Imotekh isn't the Necron version of ghazgull, Logan, or Draigo in a CC sense - He's more of a utility HQ that offers effects that help the entire army (Night fighting guaranteed to advance under the cover of darkness, 4+ seize to counter-deploy and go first, lightning bolts to thin the ranks of the enemy where possible). As such he's expensive but not 280 points expensive like swarmlord or calgar.

tetrisphreak wrote:

whigwam wrote:

Swara wrote:

Sasori wrote:It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.

If it's a gauntlet than he "just" gets rerolls to hit and to wound in CC and a standard flamer template.

That was what it looked like to me as well. Just was having a hard time believing a 225 pt character with excellent armor and no power weapon.

Seems like to me that Imotekh isn't the Necron version of ghazgull, Logan, or Draigo in a CC sense - He's more of a utility HQ that offers effects that help the entire army (Night fighting guaranteed to advance under the cover of darkness, 4+ seize to counter-deploy and go first, lightning bolts to thin the ranks of the enemy where possible). As such he's expensive but not 280 points expensive like swarmlord or calgar.

Yeah, if you want a CC monster, take the bodyguard.

tetrisphreak wrote:Seems like to me that Imotekh isn't the Necron version of ghazgull, Logan, or Draigo in a CC sense - He's more of a utility HQ that offers effects that help the entire army (Night fighting guaranteed to advance under the cover of darkness, 4+ seize to counter-deploy and go first, lightning bolts to thin the ranks of the enemy where possible). As such he's expensive but not 280 points expensive like swarmlord or calgar.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I wasn't expecting him to lead a deathstar anytime soon, just wondering what I might do with him once his storm peters out. The bonus KP for ICs and MCs would be a lot more tempting if he had a Warscythe..but ah well.