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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 G00fySmiley wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
on the app ... yea if GW made the monthly fee include updating codexes i would happily pay for it and pay more than they currently charge, as it stands i don't see the value.

As for the codex I will grab the box set as soon as i can with the codex... and maybe some charming intelligent Mal'al worshiper will frantically stay up to update battlescribe files as quick as their little typo prone fingers can manage


Waahapedia is also fairly decent for that sort of reference work. Do you find it of any use?


i'll have to check it out after work but will do so. I currently use battelscribe and just buy codexes. I still want to give GW monetary incentive to keep doing rules i just would rather do so digitally and them to realize there is a lot of money to be made that way rather than just raising prices on plastic. I don't think many 40k, 30k, or sigmar players would bat an eye at a $10 a month app for all the rules.


I use BS and used to get the Codexes as well. The last few ones I've seen, they really cut the lore down pretty hardcore. My 8th ones at least had a lore page dedicated to nearly every unit. Going to have to see how thick the new codex is before I buy.

As for burnas, ignorant question. Did they always have a melee profile? Always found it odd when you look at their weapons and think that thing melees somehow lol
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Keramory wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
on the app ... yea if GW made the monthly fee include updating codexes i would happily pay for it and pay more than they currently charge, as it stands i don't see the value.

As for the codex I will grab the box set as soon as i can with the codex... and maybe some charming intelligent Mal'al worshiper will frantically stay up to update battlescribe files as quick as their little typo prone fingers can manage


Waahapedia is also fairly decent for that sort of reference work. Do you find it of any use?


i'll have to check it out after work but will do so. I currently use battelscribe and just buy codexes. I still want to give GW monetary incentive to keep doing rules i just would rather do so digitally and them to realize there is a lot of money to be made that way rather than just raising prices on plastic. I don't think many 40k, 30k, or sigmar players would bat an eye at a $10 a month app for all the rules.




I use BS and used to get the Codexes as well. The last few ones I've seen, they really cut the lore down pretty hardcore. My 8th ones at least had a lore page dedicated to nearly every unit. Going to have to see how thick the new codex is before I buy.

As for burnas, ignorant question. Did they always have a melee profile? Always found it odd when you look at their weapons and think that thing melees somehow lol


as long as i have been playing the burnas have had a power weapon profile. its supposed to represent their battlefield/ after battle role where they use their flamer as a cutting torch to slice up tanks etc. i have a plasma cutter myself fo rmetal working and while its not really going to quickly cut through metal it doe sand add some scifi tech and i could see it. it is also the justification as to why our flamers have to be only D3 shots instead of d6 like all other flamers since our shave a melee profile

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 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
i'll be honest, I hated the boss pole with a passion. I can't remember how many times I had to re-glue that fiddly little thing back onto my nobz.

As far as 9th edition codex goes, I am leaning more towards GW giving boyz a ridiculous price increase that will make them functionally useless. The problem with doing that is that all our "specialist" troops are based on a boyz profile so they will likely see a similar points increase and when our weapons get "buffed" we get yet another price increase. Anyone ready to pay 25ppm for a 3 shot loota? I know I'm not.


From mathing out the PL of the beast snagga box, beast snaggas will absolutely not be more than 11ppm, most like 9 or 10. Choppa boyz will be 1 or 2 points less than those.

I can totally see them keeping boyz at 8 but axing the green tide stratagems and scarboyz to compensate.

As for lootas - in my recent silly trukk horde game I had two units of 9 with klever spanna (because it's just 1 CP that way) and they worked surprisingly well, even without grot shield and shoot twice. That said AP-1 is still a rather big problem. I would be very surprised if they go up in points.

A nerf I do see coming from a mile away though is tank bustas - rokkit pistols and tankhammers will become mandatory, and the beast snagga riders are already advertised as tank hunters.


Even if you average 3 shots a turn a single loota is doing 0.78dmg a turn to a Marine out of cover, and honestly a T4 2wound model is about the most ideal target for a loota at the moment and even then it would take 3 lootas to average 1 dead Marine a turn.

My general rule of thumb is a ranged unit should make back 1/3rd its cost a turn when shooting at its ideal target. Lootas almost do that if they AVERAGE 3 shots a turn. The problem is that Lootas also fall into the category of "Glass Cannon". If they don't do damage immediately they die. The solution to that as we mentioned together in general forums and what you did in your list, is to put them in a trukk, but this artificially raises their price by 6-7ppm and adds nothing in regards to dmg potential. So now those 3 lootas are 26-27ppm and are struggling to kill a single Marine, and now the math is 81pts to kill a single 18pt Marine, or less than 25%.

A single Heavy Bolter marine right now is 28ppm and is doing 1.33dmg a turn to a Marine atm. Loota has more range, costs 8ppm less (atm), weapon is +2 strength, while the Marine is BS3, has 2 wounds and a 3+ save.

I just don't see a place for a loota in our lists right now because of how OP other armies weapons have become. a D3 shot weapon that hits on 5s is just not going to cut it. Jokingly before I mentioned D3+3 might be feasible to make a loota worth taking....now? Yeah, even without a price hike that would still not be game breaking...hell that would still have it putting out LESS dmg than a heavy bolter Marine. 5 shot average, 1.94 hits on average, 1.29 wounds, 0.65ish unsaved wounds for 1.29dmg a turn.

Think about that, against infantry a Heavy bolter is more effective than a D3+3 Deffgun The benefit for the Loota would be against T3,5,6 and 7. So maybe give it a minor price bump, but realistically its still going to die significantly faster thanks to its lack of armor.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in au
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@ Goofy/Keramory

I think that was brought in with the 4th edition codex. It was interesting enough, in a turn you could either use your standard template flamer or you could use it as a powersword. But not both. It felt fun enough, a burnaboy unit with "cuttin' flame" as it was called would utterly slice through a marine squad.

In theory a full squad of burnas nowdays that can get a round of both shooting and melee could do, okay? But it's tricky to imagine a scenario where you can slap down the 8" ranged attack against a chaff unit and then charge something with a decent save to cut through.

I do miss the days when you could just stick them in an opened topped transport drive up to something then put down the template and go, well I caught 5 models in your unit and have 15 models in the wagon, sooooo 75 hits. Even termies dropped to that. Especially termies cause of deepstrike required you to deploy in tight circles. Ah, good times.
   
Made in us
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Nebraska, USA

issue with that is they woulnt even be firing at anything except what they want to charge, even with 12" range.
And any smart player would remove from the front in that case to make the inevitable charge a bit harder.

Flamers as a whole have that problem except on units that arent trying to charge anyway.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
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Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





I didn't claim it was easy or practical.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 23:14:09


 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






I'm planning on bringing a Stompa for my new Ork army, is a block of 20 boyz probably the best option to roll around with? It kind of seems like obsec would be super important to truck around.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

cody.d. wrote:
@ Goofy/Keramory

I think that was brought in with the 4th edition codex. It was interesting enough, in a turn you could either use your standard template flamer or you could use it as a powersword. But not both. It felt fun enough, a burnaboy unit with "cuttin' flame" as it was called would utterly slice through a marine squad.



Burnas had the double profile (power weapon/template) also in the 3rd edition codex. But burnaboyz were just slugga/choppa boyz that could take up to 4 burnas and be led by a mek instead of a nob, back then. Squads of 5-10 but troops. And regular squads of boyz could have 3 burnas anyway which was awesome, especially for skarboyz which had native +1S compared to regular boyz.

Burnas were awesome in 3rd edition, especially as upgrades for regular boyz, skarboyz and trukk boyz (which were fast attack) or for a mek that joined a Warboss' retinue but they still had some value in the following codex, the 4th/5th editions one.
   
Made in dk
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Denmark

I wish we still could mix and match more heavy and special weapons among boyz.
It would give us more tactical options: Slugga Boyz and Burnas, Deffguns with Shoota Boyz as ablative wounds.

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 Bonde wrote:
I wish we still could mix and match more heavy and special weapons among boyz.
It would give us more tactical options: Slugga Boyz and Burnas, Deffguns with Shoota Boyz as ablative wounds.


Yeah I agree. It would make squads more interesting to model as well. I'm not a fan of the move towards needing a whole new datacard for a specialised load-out.

I have a blog on the Warhammer Tournaments website:

Too much plasma can be cheesy

My painting and modeling blog:

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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 PaddyMick wrote:
 Bonde wrote:
I wish we still could mix and match more heavy and special weapons among boyz.
It would give us more tactical options: Slugga Boyz and Burnas, Deffguns with Shoota Boyz as ablative wounds.


Yeah I agree. It would make squads more interesting to model as well. I'm not a fan of the move towards needing a whole new datacard for a specialised load-out.


Realistically, there is a very small chance of that happening, though we don't know what's on the new sprues.

If the bits in the box remain the same, the best chance is to get both a big shoota and a rokkit launcha per 10 models, but the chance of getting options that are not in the box is basically zero.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/25 08:29:10


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Climate change is real
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Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




 Grimskul wrote:
pepi55 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.

No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.


Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?

Jidmah remembers.


I wish I could experience this...


I mean you technically still can, the 5th ed rules are likely all over the net as a pdf of some sort and same with the Ork codex, if you can find someone to do a retro game with you, you can somewhat relive the years before reroll bubbles and super damage spikes existed.


Dont you need a bunch of gear for that that is no longer sold anywhere?
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Just scatter dice, flamer and blast templates, and those are still readily available, especially used ones can be gotten from ebay.

Worst case, make your own.

That said, 5th edition is not as well-written as you are used from 8th or 9th, for me playing a game of 5th was kind of like watching one of those cartoons you liked as a kid, which are a pain to watch today.

There is a poster on dakka who has written a "modern" version of 5h, I suggest to try that if you really want to get some oldschool feels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 11:30:10


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Realistically orks are the one faction that shouldnt even have specialized units.

Boyz should just be allowed to bring 5 special weapons per 10 models. Get access to burnas, bigshootas, KMBs, rokkits, or even bigchoppas why not? it makes sense for only nobz or higher to have powerklaws/saws but a bigchoppa can just be a huge hunk of metal the ork picked up randomly.
Hell, i'd say that Loot It! should offer the ability to upgrade choppas to bigchoppas on that topic lol

It even makes sense from GW"s current rules methodology. Burnas/rokkits already technically come in a squad of 5 box, just release one with 5 bigchoppa boyz, 5 bigshoota boyz, and some plastic rokkit boyz.
They'd never do that of course but it would make sense for orks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 13:17:51


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




cody.d. wrote:
@ Goofy/Keramory

I think that was brought in with the 4th edition codex. It was interesting enough, in a turn you could either use your standard template flamer or you could use it as a powersword. But not both. It felt fun enough, a burnaboy unit with "cuttin' flame" as it was called would utterly slice through a marine squad.

In theory a full squad of burnas nowdays that can get a round of both shooting and melee could do, okay? But it's tricky to imagine a scenario where you can slap down the 8" ranged attack against a chaff unit and then charge something with a decent save to cut through.

I do miss the days when you could just stick them in an opened topped transport drive up to something then put down the template and go, well I caught 5 models in your unit and have 15 models in the wagon, sooooo 75 hits. Even termies dropped to that. Especially termies cause of deepstrike required you to deploy in tight circles. Ah, good times.


Yeah I really love the idea of Burnas and tried running them a few times. Every time though they just felt like a wasted slot where I could have just brought regular boys for the exact same effect but better. Up close murder. The issue with boy variants is t4 at save 6 is just too fragile not to bring something in mass. And if you bring in mass, every point counts.

I do hope theres an added incentive to add a datasheet rule or a strat that they have a chance to blow up upon melee at the very least. Basically acid blood from tyranids for burnas. Makes sense after all. Putting a chainsword through a giant gas canister probably isn't the smartest thing to do.
   
Made in es
Gangly Grot Rebel




I've played today against the AdMech.

I played Ghazz, KFF, painboy, weirdboy, 3xboyz, 1xgrots, 3xdeffkopta, 3xkommando and a trukk with 6 meganobz.

deffkopta and kommando doing secondaries.

I played whole match hidden. I DaJumped turn1 and didnt really do a lot of damage, so I decided to stay the rest of the match obscured.

Final score 94-64 or something like this. I could have went like 85-70 but I would have lost anyways.

AdMech is very strong ATM. 6++ DS invulnerable is not enough for the boyz, you need a KFF or the 80 shots F4 will kill 30 boyz, 30 automatic shots with some indirect fire another 30 boyz and you lose in turn 3.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/26 07:55:47


Orks 5000p 
   
Made in us
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Nebraska, USA

Admech have always been a bit of a difficult matchup for orks.
They have high rate of fire attacks
Their melee is deadly where its not generic fists
Theyre fast and have plenty of fallback shenanigans

Their only real downfall is they are squishy. Bulk of the army is T3 so theyre easily wounded but they still have decent saves so since orks lack high volume attacks with AP theyre still difficult to kill.

I expect that matchup to get a lot better for orks in the new codex, barring some BS pointing for orks. Not favorable for orks but more even.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut






Hi guys. I have been out of the loop since last summer but wanted to try out a small game. build a 1 list with BattleScribe but gut confused by the cost of the Big meck with KFF, it cost 60p with no additional cost for the KFF as I can see. Is this correct? Thanks for reply, sorry for the blunt question.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 07:31:37


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Nora wrote:
Hi guys. I have been out of the loop since last summer but wanted to try out a small game. build a 1 list with BattleScribe but gut confused by the cost of the Big meck with KFF, it cost 60p with no additional cost for the KFF as I can see. Is this correct? Thanks for reply, sorry for the blunt question.


Yes, 60 points has been confirmed to be correct recently after there was quite some confusion about it. The KFF is part of its base cost.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut






 Jidmah wrote:
 Nora wrote:
Hi guys. I have been out of the loop since last summer but wanted to try out a small game. build a 1 list with BattleScribe but gut confused by the cost of the Big meck with KFF, it cost 60p with no additional cost for the KFF as I can see. Is this correct? Thanks for reply, sorry for the blunt question.


Yes, 60 points has been confirmed to be correct recently after there was quite some confusion about it. The KFF is part of its base cost.


Okay, thanks
   
Made in es
Gangly Grot Rebel




I hope we get a complete rework of the army in the codex.

9th codexes got everything you can imagine. Building armies with 90 bodies T5 won't help gak.

Wych cost 10p and 4++ melee, 3 attacks, poisons and gaks, advance and charge without auras... Jesus christ...

They could give us back the SSAG, lootas + grots, stormboyz cheaper, bikes cheaper, killa kans... Snagga beast seems gak like me. You will never reach a worth vehicle (ironstriders...) with a 6++ running infantry

Orks 5000p 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

I wish nothing gets cheaper or significantly cheaper at least, except the Stompa of course. Units need to be better, not cheaper otherwise they could be spammed in huge numbers which isn't healthy.

Bikes for example would be so much better if they get +1T, -1AP in combat and -1AP in shooting without a price hike.

Wyches are much deadlier than boyz (remember they also have the drug to enhance them and obsessions give them great bonuses) but also squishier as at the end of the day they're still a melee-only unit with 1W T3 6++/(4++ only in combat) bodies.

Without the whole picture is flat out impossible to predict what units will be awesome or gak.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 10:39:50



 
   
Made in de
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 Blackie wrote:
Without the whole picture is flat out impossible to predict what units will be awesome or gak.


This is more true for 9th edition codices than ever. Pretty much every prediction for DG was wrong until people started playing with them.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in es
Gangly Grot Rebel




For the same price, AP-1 in choppas and warbikes R6 would be super strong IMO.

You can block everything in combat and make time for your boyz and stuff to reach the opponent deployment zone

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 16:54:14


Orks 5000p 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Genuinely think T5 and ap-1 in combat for choppas is massive. I played death guard recently and charged a squad of plague marines with 30boyz and basically just totally bounced off their 3+. The -1 ap would have probably meant they all die instead of a few remaining.

I had personally has a good 1500pt game against Deathwatch the other day with my deathskulls. Army was roughly...

Da biggest boss with DKK
Weird boy warp head with maniacal seizure and da jump
KFF Mek
3 X 20 Boyz
5 nobs
3 mega nobz
2 X shokkjumpdragsta
Burna bomba
Trukk

His army was relatively grim with multiple redemptors and big outrider squads, luckily I got first turn and tagged his outriders with my trukk and flying eadbutted my bomber into them as well.
I took a charge from bladeguard a d redemptor before the boss and some Boyz showed up and killed everything. In the end we drew but he had about 3 Eradicators left whereas I had most of my army. A good game and it left me looking forward to the codex.
   
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Danmark

before you say its gonna be massive, lets see if they get a price hike.

If they do, it wont be massive i think. but then again, it depends on the rest of the codex, units, stratagems etc.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Speaking of DG, I'll probably be having a game against them again soon and the last time I brought my buggy list I got destroyed pretty hard. What kind of list usually does well against them that Orks can bring? Not sure if green tide is great against them given their horde clearing abilities and resilience to small arms, I assume if I do bring Green Tide, Skarboyz is mandatory because of their T5.
   
Made in au
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Don't DG have pretty meh anti tank? Perhaps a dreadmob list would do okay? Just plough in there and tie them up while a few cheap units try to hug objectives.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Grimskul wrote:Speaking of DG, I'll probably be having a game against them again soon and the last time I brought my buggy list I got destroyed pretty hard. What kind of list usually does well against them that Orks can bring? Not sure if green tide is great against them given their horde clearing abilities and resilience to small arms, I assume if I do bring Green Tide, Skarboyz is mandatory because of their T5.


If you to bring the tide, make sure you have something that can kill a unit of deathshroud (3W/T5/2+/4++/DR) from a distance, as those can blow through mobs of boyz with no trouble. They usually either walk up the board or deep strike as units of 3. Thrakka can kill them, but it's a gamble, if you're unlucky they can kill him after just one round of combat with overwatch and pistol flamers.

Also be aware of the ferryman plague company - their contagion halves movement and there is a stratagem to toss it onto fast vehicles like drones. This can cripple your entire tide if you don't prevent that drone from moving into your ranks.
The other company to look out for is the wretched - they can bring a psyker that can vomit (yes, literally) 10+ mortal wounds onto units too close to him.
For all other plague companies, make sure to ask for their company-specific stratagem, like most DG stratagems they are powerful if you get gotcha'ed by them, but can be played around.

Last, but not least, Mortarion lists might be not be winning tournaments because there are some hard-counters to him (most notably Drukhari), but still are a force to be reckoned with. Thrakka can deal a ton of damage to him, but be aware that Mortarion has a chance to kill Thrakka before he gets a second chance to fight. Also, no re-rolls whatsoever against Mortarion in combat.

cody.d. wrote:Don't DG have pretty meh anti tank? Perhaps a dreadmob list would do okay? Just plough in there and tie them up while a few cheap units try to hug objectives.

Death Guard are absolutely vicious in close combat now, charging them with dreads will most likely cause you to lose them. DR is especially bad for dreads armed with saws and the smash profile of nauts.
That said, their anti-tank is pretty weak so vehicles with powerful shooting like buggies, kannon wagons, morkanauts or planes are rather decent if you prioritize taking out PBCs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/28 06:35:16


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Gangly Grot Rebel




With orks are never beaten, I think you can destroy Mortarion if you deliver correctly

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/29 10:08:51


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