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Now that we have had almost 7 months to digest 6th edition, is there an Eldar, Dark Eldar, or Ally of the two (pure eldar, no others) that can be competitive enough to win a large national tournament?

What build can stand up to Necrons, Guard, Daemons, Flyers, etc?

Yes harlistar is a very competative TAC list.

/end thread

Harliestar is competitive against noobs and people who are scared and fire everything they can at it.

They are many counters to that list and many weaknesses.

Your whole "/end thread" is comical. Harliestar is not the end all be all of the Eldar/DE alliance. it is a gimmick and one that is easily countered by a smart and competent opponent.

I think Eldar and DE can be very competitive with the right points and the competent person controlling them. There arent many people out there that WANT to play DE.

The firepower that DE can put out is still nice with Venoms or the Gunboats. Eldar are nice with War Walkers and their Psychic Defense. DE work as great allies because you can shove so much in an Eldar Main detachment for such a minimal cost.

If you use IA11, then yes. I have seen triple nightwing triple warphunter builds do well, add in DE allies for venom warriors and a baron beastblob, led by a farseer and using serpent dragons, you have a reasonably comp list.

Yes on the 2nd biggest/most competitive tournament in the UK had a player finishing in the top 15 with Eldar/DE combo.

Dark eldar are a competitive army, and eldar have competitive units. There are no bad points to mixing the armies, they cover each others weakness, why not use them?

Dark eldar cover where eldar lack, plentiful AI and high str AV in splinter and dark lances.

Eldar cover where dark eldar lack, pychic-y-ness, mass str 6.

I play a dark eldar/eldar army using a doom/presinence seer with RoW (AMAZING!!!), pathfinders for great obj campers and a wraithlord for some extra AV, which in all fairness i shouldn't be lacking.

If you want a competitive dark eldar allie, start with either a ravager or one of our flyers (we know they are what you really want) then on a unit of warriors w/Blaster or WireWyches in a venom. A nice trick is putting a haem with some pathfinders to give them NV. For HQ's on the cheap a simple haem would work, but id reccomend an archon w/ blaster in a venom with blasterborn. Add this to a unit of reavers for a jack of all trades or beasts for a rock solid fast assult unit and add them to any army you have. They will work well. 24 36'' poisen shots, 3 dark lances, 6 blasters, possibly haywire from wyches or scourges, have fun

That question comes up all the time. You can find another one not even one page down here.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/502858.page

To answer your question -- yes. This is a 1750 list that wiped a tourney I was at last weekend.
Baron - 105

Asdrubael Vect - 240

15 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL - 200

15 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL - 200

20 Warriors - 2 splinter cannons, Sybarite - 210

5 Beast masters - 5 kymerra, 8 razorwings - 240

3 True Born - 2 splinter cannons - 56

3 True Born - 2 splinter cannons - 56

Eldrad - 210

3 Guardian jetbikes - 66

3 Guardian jetbikes - 66

Aegis Defense line - quad gun - 100

wow labmouse, that won the tournament you were at?

That is sad indeed. But good for him.

There are plenty of combos you can do that dont include fortuning a 2++ save.

Try a bunch of combos and see what you like, thats what is great about this game. Find something that works for you, and use it and tweak it and make it fit to your play style.

SCP Yeeman wrote:
wow labmouse, that won the tournament you were at?

That is sad indeed. But good for him.

There are plenty of combos you can do that dont include fortuning a 2++ save.

Try a bunch of combos and see what you like, thats what is great about this game. Find something that works for you, and use it and tweak it and make it fit to your play style.

Heh. As I mentioned in the other thread, its one of those lists you need to see in person.

DE and Eldar lists may not look like much on paper, but the whole is much greater than the sum of its parts.

Edit : Just for the record, there were excellent players the tourney. It was not a fluke. Guys that are on the national circuit lost to him.
Also at Battleground games last month (located near Boston, great store) a similar list took first at their local tourney. I expect this to be one of those 'sleeper builds' that people will see in competitive games. All it will take is someone taking Adepticon or NOVA with it, and it will become a netlist.

any codex may be competitive, depends on how you build your army and play it. even GK players lose once in a while.

try asking constructive questions with actual answers rather than looking for the one-shot army...

SCP Yeeman wrote:
Harliestar is competitive against noobs and people who are scared and fire everything they can at it.

They are many counters to that list and many weaknesses.

Your whole "/end thread" is comical. Harliestar is not the end all be all of the Eldar/DE alliance. it is a gimmick and one that is easily countered by a smart and competent opponent.

I think Eldar and DE can be very competitive with the right points and the competent person controlling them. There arent many people out there that WANT to play DE.

The firepower that DE can put out is still nice with Venoms or the Gunboats. Eldar are nice with War Walkers and their Psychic Defense. DE work as great allies because you can shove so much in an Eldar Main detachment for such a minimal cost.

The thread askedif there was a combination of Eldar/DE that was competative for the top tournaments. The Harlistar is an example of an extremely competative build using Eldar/DE that is definitely capable of winning tournaments. That is why I said "end/thread" because the answer to OP question was yes and here is an example.

Now I never said Harlistar was the only build or an auto win. Frankly however I feel like you have been playing against a poor general or a sub optimal list if you feel a harlistar is an easily countered. Frankly a good general will not allow you to do the things that counter the harlistar (or will attempt to not allow you to do them). WIth a good general at the helm the Harlistar is very hard to beat, not impossible but it's right up there with the other top lists.

Dark Eldar are fantastic. I am running this list:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/01/do-warhammer-40k-monster-mash.html

As for the Eldar addition TO a Dark Eldar army, the obvious add on is the Farseer. He does what Dark Eldar cannot do. Adding a unit of Pathfinder snipers is never a waste of time in 6E. Precision shot and pinning, excellent survivability. What more to want from a rear guard troop choice anyways?

And that then allows the Dark Eldar to perhaps access several VERY useful items.

My personaly favorite idea for additions to the Dark Eldar list from Codex:Eldar is the D-Cannon battery OR Dark Reapers. Barrages are powerful in 6E and Those two in particular are very good. Dark Eldar dont have barrages really. So it adds legitimately to their threat.

As for winning major tournies I guesss you have to look to the tournies that have already happened. They sure look like they could compete well...

yes there are still competitive lists for space pixies, probably more so for de since eldar are kinda outdated. Really its all about getting a good base, and then its just your personal preference after that. For your base you want at least 4 troop choices for around 1500pt games and 5 to 6 for anything larger. Really thats it, after that its just about balancing your list with AT and AI while trying to keep a general synergy within the army.

Triple warp spiders.. just saying lol having three 5 man warp spiders squads is just nasty and thats only around 500 points and a list with this works well with a DE allied detachment.

That would be a list I play, actually!
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-wraithbone-sings-in-anticipation.html

3 x 8 Warp Spiders.
3 D-Cannon Battery
2 x 3 Reapers (Tempest, Fast, Crack shot)
10 Guardians (missile)
3x3 Jetbikes (cannon)
7 Scorpions (Shadowstrike, Stalker, Claw)
Autarch (Warp, Power, mandiblasters, Melta)
Farseer (Guide, Doom)
Aegis Defense Line with Gun

Well, I played Eldar at several occasions but not in an RTT and won all games so far, especially vs Tau and BA. Frankly, I prefer other armies at competitive play, especially Necrons.
We have also seen some Eldar and DE armies at our local RTTs and they lost badly. I'm not saying they are not competitive but they are very hard to pull off these days.

 wuestenfux wrote:
We have also seen some Eldar and DE armies at our local RTTs and they lost badly. I'm not saying they are not competitive but they are very hard to pull off these days.

That's because to pull it off you need to utilize synergy between the units. That's not a 'new player' or 'average player' skill levels. Good players with Eldar/DE play very scary armies.

There are a few staples that are extremely good in 6th edition, that anyone can use.
Vect - Perferred Enemy is extremely powerful. He eats anything not with 2+ save. He also gives fearless.
Beast Pack - Given a fearless character, an extremely undercosted unit given 6th edition changes
Eldard - Still is a staple of Eldar. He's an absolute beast for his points.
Eldar Jetbikes - Excellent objective grabbers with the ability to move 36" a turn.

I have always found the Guardian Jetbikes very lackluster. They arrive the latest T4 and have to hold out against 1-2 turns of shooting. They always seem to just die as it isnt too hard to kill 3 Marines basically is what they are.

I think they are one of those, look good on paper and sound in in theory but haven't produced results for me.

I agree Labmouse on the Beasts and Vect and Eldrad. All 3 are insanely good. I run a large Beast squad with a Doomseer on a bike for support and the all important LD 10. The Baron rolls with them for the added benefits.

I have experiemented with a Wraithstar of some sort with Vect or Baron and Eldrad. It works but so slow.

I too have foudn that 5-6 Warp Spiders for an allied detachment is not only cheap but very very effective. I love putting out 12-14 Str 6 shots. I love me soem Warp Spiders.

@Pony

maybe you just dont know how to beat te Harliestar. OR you are liek a lot of other people that when they see it, they NEED to shoot it or get close or do exactly what you are not supposed to do. I have played against it and it is gimmicky and can catch people off guard with what it can do.

It is easuly countered as long as you think and not freak out and go "OMFG there is Vect, Fuegan, and Eldrad in that squad! IT needs to die!!!!" Wrong attitude and wrong assumption.

A common item I've experienced with winning Eldar/DE lists are the Beastpack unit and Eldar Jetbikes. When a Beastpack is properly played, it is a very difficult unit to contain.

Simply put, yes. Eldar/DE can and is competitive.

BeastMasters are hard core. I have them in my list for sure. Awesome mobility, GREAT survivability and they occupt enemy attention very well.

What up guys, was pointed at this thread, thought I would toss in my 2 cents as guys on our team play this combo a LOT and it is super effective. IMO, top tier.

Both armies on their own are really, really good right now, and together, they mesh just so damn well.

Harliestar is very, very good as has been said. The counter, also pointed out, is to ignore or contain the Harliestar unit (if you can) and kill the support units. Not easy to do at all, but a viable tactic.

The combinations that we have seen work really well with the Eldar Alliance are Poison Weapons and Doom (stupid good) which is extra effective in the context of 6th edition with a move towards infantry based armies.

Speedy, cheap, reliable scoring units in Eldar Jet Bikes and Venom units are also a plus. Fantastic assault units in Harlies, Beastpacks, Incubi, Archons, Phoenix Lords, Wraithlords (who are Characters, it's challenge time!) etc. are able to hang with other big, scary units.

Divination helps a ton with everything.

You can also flood the field with bodies for board control (Guardians and Warriors), you have mobile AT (Ravagers, Flyers, etc.)

War Walkers are anti everything apart from AV13 and 14, and with Divination, smoke flyers, too. Fuegan or a Fire Dragon Exarch on a quad gun with tank hunter and crack shot is one of the best (if not THE best) AA units in the game. Pretty much one shot, one kill every time.

Firedragons are anti-everything, and a great buy. Wyches with haywire grenades are awesome AT, too.

The list goes on, but the amount of combination are mind numbing. You have speed, scoring ability, shooting, psyker buffs, best psyker defense, assault, elite infantry, hordes, you name it.

Take units that synergize with one another, and have a game plan with how the list works, and you can build fantastic armies with a lot of flexibility.

On their own, I would say "no," I played Dark Eldar extensively in 5th edition, and by the end, found them invalidated by GK at the tourney level. The things that made Dark Eldar good for a time are even worse in 6th.

That being said, both Eldar and Dark Eldar have a ton of neat units and combinations in 6th. However, they both face a weakness in terms of troop choices.

There have been a number of Eldar/DE combos that have done well in 6th edition tournies. So yes, they are competitive.

Dark Eldar are very NOT worse in 6E. hehehe.

I'm not a DE player, but I have not been impressed the three times I've played them. However, I don't run many elite units or high AV vehicles and I pack many 48" guns. The skimmers fancy shielding is not very effective against these kinds of weapons. Once the DE are on foot, they are vulnerable to things like whirlwinds and Baal preds. And they are not a match for BA in HTH in general, either.

I ran this list at a recent tournament, taking first.

DE:
Baron
x3 Kabablite Warriors in Venom
x2 Haywire Wyches in Venom
x2 Ravagers /w Lances
Beast Pack with 8 Khymera and 4 RazorFlocks
Reavers x6 with Heat Lances
(all vehicles had extra cannon and night shields)

Eldar:
Farseer /w Guide, RoWarding, RoWitnessing
x5 Rangers
x3 Scatter Walkers


My only real worry was my own air defense. But I figured with guided Walkers, I could handle most things. I plan on dropping the reavers for a bomber, and dropping the rangers for guardian jetbikes and giving the farseer and jetbike.

Night Shields are amazing in 6th. I can pre measure everything. I played against a ravenwing army and was able to kite him around the board for the whole game. He could never get range on me, and I always had range on him.

SCP Yeeman wrote:
wow labmouse, that won the tournament you were at?

That is sad indeed. But good for him.

Thanks man. I have a lot of fun.

I also took it to this event: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484661.page

Since I now have your attention Sean - did you use the Baron's Hit and Run a lot? This would make it even easier to get Vect into assault - assuming you feel you can win the first round of combat.

I dont know that I used it a lot. Didnt use it in game one. Used it once in game 2. Not at all game 3. Game 4 used it once. Game 5 didnt use it at all.

But hit and run has nothing to do with getting vect into combat. He never once left the beast unit. You just have to string a few bases back as you move to keep him in coherency. Its not that hard to do. And it doesnt matter if you dont kill things on the charge because a) you can finish them on their turn or b) hit and run if they dont die.

I played a game against Deldar with my tyranids and I can tell you that they are for real. They make for a very good combo - good enough to win tournaments even. The army I played against didn't involve the harliestar. Rather, my opponent used 2 deathstars - Seer Council and a large unit of beastpacks. His list went something like this:

Eldrad
Farseer on Jetbike
Baron

10x Seer Council

2x10 Warriors - Splinter Cannon
3x3 Jetbikes

Large Beastpack squad - 4 beastmasters, 8 chimeras, 5-6 razorwings

ADL - Quad-guns


He would reserve everything but his 2 deathstars. Eldrad and the Baron went with the beastpack. If necessary, you can use Eldrad's Divination ability to redeploy units around. Eldrad would then take book powers, of which 1 would be Prescience. Then you better pray he doesn't get Invisibility or Misfortune as well. Then Eldrad can cast the same power twice, meaning he can cast Prescience on both deathstars or perhaps Misfortune 2 enemy units (if he gets it). And then that slippery bastard the Baron would Hit&Run almost every time he needed to. I just couldn't tie them up! Overall, the synergy in that alliance is just tremendous.

BTW, I hate Eldrad with a passion.

BTW BTW be on the lookout for the battle report coming out either here on Dakka or on Frontline Gaming's site.

That's an interesting list Jy2 - we were discussing something similar in our gaming group. Stelek and Fritz 40k have been advocating the foot seer council for 6ed and we had tenatively thought about incorporating a dual deathstar as well ...

HQ: Eldrad - 210
HQ: Farseer - Doom ;  Fortune ; Runes of Warding; Runes of Witnessing; Spirit Stones - 155 [EL]
HQ: Seer Council - Warlock Unit - 10 Warlocks, 1 Enhance, 1 Embolden, 2 Destructors - 300 [EL]
HQ: Baron Sathonyx - 105 [DE]

Elites: 5 Fire Dragons - Exarch, Crack Shot, Tank Hunter, Dragon's Breath Flamer - 112 [EL]

Troop: 3 Guardian Jetbikes - 66 [EL]
Troop: 3 Guardian jetbikes - 66 {EL]
Troop: 3 Guardian jetbikes - 66 {EL]
Troop: 20 Warriors - 2 Splinter Cannons, Sybarite - 210 [DE]
Troop: 20 Warriors - 2 Splinter Cannons, Sybarite - 210 [DE]

FA: 5 Beast Masters - 5 Kymerra, 8 Razorwings - 240 [DE]

Fortification: Aegis Defense Line - Quad Autocannons 100

TOTAL POINTS: 1849

@2000 add
add 5 fire dragons exarch crack shot dragon's breath flamer (+98)
add 4 truborn, 2 splinter cannons (+68)
remove 1 embolden (-15)

The idea of course is to spread out and cover as much of the table as possible and get into cc quick as possible with run fleet.