Chapterhouse being sued?

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**Ilmarinen**

What is annoying me about this discussion is the number of people leaping to Chapterhouse's defence by accusing GW of bullying. CH have been utterly blatant about using GW names and have recently gone so far as to produce their own versions of complete units, using GW names. That GW have been forced to react is not bullying, any more than if you keep poking a wasp nest with a stick and eventually the wasps sting you!

CH have provoked this reaction. Now we have to wait and see what the fallout will be, but either way it could be bad news. If GW loses, then they lose control of their IP and we see a deterioration in the available products (which does not help our hobby in the long run). If GW wins then it may well hurt the other aftermarket bits makers, who have been quite happy to be subtle and considerate about their products - and have therefore been left alone by GW. And just remember - GW have to pay their legal team out of the money they get from us, so if they lose we have to pay more.

Let me reiterate - CH have provoked this by being arrogant and inconsiderate. This was all completely unnecessary, but CH wanted to push the boundaries.

**MagickalMemories**

But, wasps are bullies and deserve to be poked.

In seriousness, though, calling them bullies isn't JUST about the CH issue. It's about their repeated bullying tactics (starting with their "rules" which caused online resellers to have to close, though the C&D debacle, to this). It's not a one-time incident that's causing the outrage.

Eric

**brettz123**

chaos0xomega wrote:Well, if the guys at CH are anything like me, unless GW offered (what I would consider) a fair settlement there would be a jury (I'm assuming that was in reference to whether or not the case goes to trial), but there are plenty of lawyers in the family, so thats just me.

Being a guy like you doesn't pay the lawyers bills or put food on the table.

**Gibbsey**

brettz123 wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:I think GW and CH should just decide it on a 4+ like in the rulebook.

Unfortunately for CH this looks like it will be decided on a 2+

And GW has a reroll...

**Polonius**

Ilmarinen wrote:What is annoying me about this discussion is the number of people leaping to Chapterhouse's defence by accusing GW of bullying. CH have been utterly blatant about using GW names and have recently gone so far as to produce their own versions of complete units, using GW names. That GW have been forced to react is not bullying, any more than if you keep poking a wasp nest with a stick and eventually the wasps sting you!

CH have provoked this reaction. Now we have to wait and see what the fallout will be, but either way it could be bad news. If GW loses, then they lose control of their IP and we see a deterioration in the available products (which does not help our hobby in the long run). If GW wins then it may well hurt the other aftermarket bits makers, who have been quite happy to be subtle and considerate about their products - and have therefore been left alone by GW. And just remember - GW have to pay their legal team out of the money they get from us, so if they lose we have to pay more.

Let me reiterate - CH have provoked this by being arrogant and inconsiderate. This was all completely unnecessary, but CH wanted to push the boundaries.

So, accusing GW of exercising their legal rights shouldn't be called bullying (and I agree), but CH exercising what very well might be their legal rights is arrogant and inconsiderate? I'm noticing an inconsistency here.

There aren't white hats and black hats here. There is no evil empire vs. scrappy underdog, or malevolent theif vs. honest creator.

These are two businesses arguing over a fairly esoteric corner of the law. It's business. I think it's ridiculous to think that a CH win will cause GW's products to deteriorate, as even if CH wins on all counts GW could simply produce better product than them, at similar if not lower prices. If GW wins on all counts, CH will be shut down, but other bits makers will continue to work until similar suits are filed.

I think the most any of us can say is that having CH bits available is useful to a small but signifigant minority of hobbyists. Losing that would be a small but measurable loss.

**dietrich**

Gibbsey wrote:
brettz123 wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:I think GW and CH should just decide it on a 4+ like in the rulebook.

Unfortunately for CH this looks like it will be decided on a 2+

And GW has a reroll...

Does GW have a patent for the twin-linked lawyer launcher, or are they claiming its protected under IP laws?

**TBD**

I can't say Chapterhouse didn't have this coming, and I am not optimistic this will end up very well for them.

**Gibbsey**

Polonius wrote:
Ilmarinen wrote:What is annoying me about this discussion is the number of people leaping to Chapterhouse's defence by accusing GW of bullying. CH have been utterly blatant about using GW names and have recently gone so far as to produce their own versions of complete units, using GW names. That GW have been forced to react is not bullying, any more than if you keep poking a wasp nest with a stick and eventually the wasps sting you!

CH have provoked this reaction. Now we have to wait and see what the fallout will be, but either way it could be bad news. If GW loses, then they lose control of their IP and we see a deterioration in the available products (which does not help our hobby in the long run). If GW wins then it may well hurt the other aftermarket bits makers, who have been quite happy to be subtle and considerate about their products - and have therefore been left alone by GW. And just remember - GW have to pay their legal team out of the money they get from us, so if they lose we have to pay more.

Let me reiterate - CH have provoked this by being arrogant and inconsiderate. This was all completely unnecessary, but CH wanted to push the boundaries.

So, accusing GW of exercising their legal rights shouldn't be called bullying (and I agree), but CH exercising what very well might be their legal rights is arrogant and inconsiderate? I'm noticing an inconsistency here.

There aren't white hats and black hats here. There is no evil empire vs. scrappy underdog, or malevolent theif vs. honest creator.

These are two businesses arguing over a fairly esoteric corner of the law. It's business. I think it's ridiculous to think that a CH win will cause GW's products to deteriorate, as even if CH wins on all counts GW could simply produce better product than them, at similar if not lower prices. If GW wins on all counts, CH will be shut down, but other bits makers will continue to work until similar suits are filed.

I think the most any of us can say is that having CH bits available is useful to a small but signifigant minority of hobbyists. Losing that would be a small but measurable loss.

CH to me did seem to be cutting it damn close, especially using the GW names for the products. CH want selling generic parts that can be used on models or used as parts, they were selling derivitve work based on GW products and going as far as using GW names. They could of handled this much more easily than they have, and they really did seem to be tempting GW.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breif article and link to the filing:

http://tabletoptyrant.co.uk/Tyrants/?p=592

Part of the filing:

Chapterhouse makes no secret of the fact that its products are derived from,
inspired by, and copied from Games Workshop’s copyrighted works and, indeed, the banner at
the top of each page of the Website describes its business as “Specializing in Custom Sculpts and
Bits for Warhammer 40,000 and Fantasy”."

"The very title of Chapterhouse’s Website “Specializing in Custom Sculpts and
Bits for Warhammer 40,000 and Fantasy” indicates prominently - and falsely - that Chapterhouse
is literally acting “for” Games Workshop in creating, marketing, and selling such “bits” for the
WARHAMMER 40,000 game when it has not been authorized by Games Workshop to use its
brand or product names in any way."

Chapterhouse’s use of the Games Workshops trademarks, including without
limitation the marks WARHAMMER, WARHAMMER 40,000, 40K, SPACE MARINE,
CHAOS SPACE MARINES, ELDAR, ELDAR FARSEER, ELDAR JETBIKE, ELDAR
WARLOCK, ELDAR SEER COUNCIL, TYRANID, ADEPTUS MECHANICUS, BLOOD
ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, BLOOD RAVENS MARINES, IMPERIAL GUARD, BLACK
TEMPLARS, ALPHA LEGION, BONESWORD, CARNIFLEX, CRIMSON FISTS, FLESH
TEARERS, GENESTEALER, GAUNT, HERESY ARMOUR, HORUS HERESY, HOWLING
Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 1 Filed: 12/21/10 Page 11 of 19 PageID #:11 12
GRIFFONS, IRON HANDS, IMPERIAL FISTS, LASHWHIP, LEGION OF THE DAMNED,
LIGHTNING CLAW, LIONS RAMPANT, LUNA WOLVES, MANTIS WARRIORS, MK
ARMOUR, MYCETIC SPORE, RHINO, SALAMANDER, SONS OF RUSS, SOUL
DRINKER, SPACE WOLVES, STAR FOX, SWARMLORD, TECHMARINES, TAU,
THUNDER ARMOUR, THUNDER HAMMER, TERMAGANTS, TERVIGON, and YMGARL
(among others) are likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive.

What they are acusing them of:

Copyright Infringement by Chapterhouse and Paulson Under 17 U.S.C. § 101 et seq.
Trademark Infringement by Chapterhouse Under 15 U.S.C. § 1114(1)
False Designations of Origin by Chapterhouse Under 15 U.S.C. § 1125(a)
Dilution and Tarnishment by Chapterhouse Under 15 U.S.C. § 1125(c)
Violation by Chapterhouse of the Illinois Anti-Dilution Statute, 765 ILCS 1036/65
[Violation by Chapterhouse of the Illinois Deceptive Trade Practices Act, 815 ILCS 510/1 et seq.
Violation by Chapterhouse of the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act, 815 ILCS 510/1 et seq.
Common Law Unfair Competition–Trademark Infringement by Chapterhouse

Judgement GW wants:

1. Preliminarily and permanently enjoining Defendants, their agents, representatives,
employees, assigns, and suppliers, and all persons acting in concert or privity with them, from
infringing Plaintiff’s copyrighted works or using any of Plaintiff’s names or marks in a manner
that is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or from otherwise infringing, diluting, or
tarnishing Plaintiff’s trademarks, or from competing unfairly with Plaintiff;
2. Directing the destruction of all infringing merchandise and molds and means of
producing the same;
3. Awarding Plaintiff its damages and Defendants’ profits derived by reason of the
unlawful acts complained of herein and/or statutory damages as provided by law;
4. Awarding Plaintiff treble damages as provided by law; and
5. Awarding Plaintiff its reasonable attorney fees, prejudgment interest, and costs of
this action as provided by law.

Paulson Games is included because:

(including
the “Super-Heavy Assault Walker” designed at least in part by Paulson Games)

Similarly, at least 14 of the 15 items produced, marketed, and sold by Paulson
Games have been copied from (and infringe upon) Games Workshop’s copyrighted characters
and stories and sculptural works.

**Dysartes**

Gibbsey wrote:
Chapterhouse’s use of the Games Workshops trademarks, including without
limitation the marks WARHAMMER, WARHAMMER 40,000, 40K, SPACE MARINE,
CHAOS SPACE MARINES, ELDAR, ELDAR FARSEER, ELDAR JETBIKE, ELDAR
WARLOCK, ELDAR SEER COUNCIL, TYRANID, ADEPTUS MECHANICUS, BLOOD
ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, BLOOD RAVENS MARINES, IMPERIAL GUARD, BLACK
TEMPLARS, ALPHA LEGION, BONESWORD, CARNIFLEX, CRIMSON FISTS, FLESH
TEARERS, GENESTEALER, GAUNT, HERESY ARMOUR, HORUS HERESY, HOWLING
Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 1 Filed: 12/21/10 Page 11 of 19 PageID #:11 12
GRIFFONS, IRON HANDS, IMPERIAL FISTS, LASHWHIP, LEGION OF THE DAMNED,
LIGHTNING CLAW, LIONS RAMPANT, LUNA WOLVES, MANTIS WARRIORS, MK
ARMOUR, MYCETIC SPORE, RHINO, SALAMANDER, SONS OF RUSS, SOUL
DRINKER, SPACE WOLVES, STAR FOX, SWARMLORD, TECHMARINES, TAU,
THUNDER ARMOUR, THUNDER HAMMER, TERMAGANTS, TERVIGON, and YMGARL
(among others) are likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive.

Interestingly, a number of these don't appear on the lists published by GW on either their Copyright and Legal Information or Disclaimers and Trademark Lists pages.

As far as I could see, the following aren't on those lists. As I mentioned in my previous post, I know nothing about IP law/copyright or trademarks, so some of these may be covered somewhere else. Anyway, my lists of trademarks mentioned on that petition, but not specifically mentioned on the aforementioned pages:

WARHAMMER 40,000, 40K, CHAOS SPACE MARINES, ELDAR FARSEER, ELDAR JETBIKE, ELDAR WARLOCK, ELDAR SEER COUNCIL, ADEPTUS MECHANICUS, BLOOD RAVENS MARINES, IMPERIAL GUARD, BLACK TEMPLARS, ALPHA LEGION, BONESWORD, CARNIFLEX, CRIMSON FISTS, FLESH TEARERS, GAUNT, HERESY ARMOUR, HORUS HERESY, HOWLING GRIFFONS, IRON HANDS, IMPERIAL FISTS, LASHWHIP, LEGION OF THE DAMNED, LIGHTNING CLAW, LIONS RAMPANT, LUNA WOLVES, MANTIS WARRIORS, MK ARMOUR, MYCETIC SPORE, RHINO, SALAMANDER, SONS OF RUSS, SOUL DRINKER, SPACE WOLVES, STAR FOX, SWARMLORD, TECHMARINES, THUNDER ARMOUR, THUNDER HAMMER, TERMAGANTS, TERVIGON, and YMGARL

I'm most amused that Warhammer 40,000 and 40k aren't listed, though "Warhammer 40k Device" (which I guess means the logo) is.

**Empchild**

Honestly I am most shocked that this is still going on. 18 pages even, best publicity yet for chapterhouse.

**Delephont**

Empchild wrote:Honestly I am most shocked that this is still going on. 18 pages even, best publicity yet for chapterhouse.

Well, why be shocked? eveytime someone adds a post like (see above) the whole thread gets longer and longer.....thats math 101. Let the people enjoy their discussions, its what internet forums were created for......you don't HAVE to be a part of it if you don't want to.

**Shepherd23**

Honestly, I hope that Chapterhouse has the money to actually see this go to court. I do not have any degree in law, but from what I have seen of this type of case, GW really doesnt have alot backing them. Chapterhouse is just producing aftermarket add-ons except for the giant walker thing. There are plenty of companies in other industries that do just this without any problems.

My fear is that GW is going to try to keep this from ever seeing a court room until Chapterhouse has run out of money for a defense. You see that all the time. They would then lose without ever actually having had the chance to defend themselves.

I feel that this is not a case versus Chapterhouse as much as it is a case against people doing what GW wont. If GW actually made what people want WHEN they want it then there would be no Chapterhouse in the first place.

**insaniak**

Kanluwen wrote:I made the statement that GW doesn't take custom models from players. Your statement implies that they took it without providing compensation.

Purchasing the sculpt from the original owner, and crediting him, isn't that.

From memory, they actually hired him to sculpt them a duplicate... I vaguely recall a picture of the two models (GD entry and new green) side-by-side. And it's a stand-out example, because it's was such a good sculpt to begin with.

I think that would be a problem with the suggestion that GW should just offer licenses to third-party conversion-fodder businesses rather than trying to stomp on them... while some of the stuff out there is good, most of it is a noticeably lower standard than GW's or FW's norm. And while the occasional puzzling release may suggest otherwise, GW do have fairly high standards. Offering licenses to produce inferior sculpts comes back to the whole 'diluting the brand' issue.

The other problem simply being that they don't want third party ranges getting in the way of their own potential releases. Which, IIRC, is why Armorcast was given the flick all those years ago...

**Kanluwen**

One of the most fun parts is that the "What's New Today" for well...today, actually has an interview with Seb regarding the two new Skaven characters

**Kroothawk**

Ilmarinen wrote:What is annoying me about this discussion is the number of people leaping to Chapterhouse's defence by accusing GW of bullying. CH have been utterly blatant about using GW names and have recently gone so far as to produce their own versions of complete units, using GW names. That GW have been forced to react is not bullying, any more than if you keep poking a wasp nest with a stick and eventually the wasps sting you!

Look at this picture (esp. the text):

Then read the beginning of the description:

SXV-141 Super-Heavy Assault Walker SAW
Price: $285.00
Model Designed and Sculpted by Zac Soden

Yeah, Jon Paulson really provoked GW to be sued for modelling this product, no bullying at all, just professional research by a top lawyer!

BTW the model is obviously a total rip off of GW's Tau super heavy:

**Kanluwen**

Similarly, at least 14 of the 15 items produced, marketed, and sold by Paulson
Games have been copied from (and infringe upon) Games Workshop’s copyrighted characters
and stories and sculptural works.

So even if the part about the "SAW" is wrong, they're still pointing towards him for the items he sells.

**derek**

I wonder if Nintendo knows that GW is trying to claim they own the rights/trademark to the term "Star Fox." Is it illegal to lie in a court filing?

**Empchild**

Delephont wrote:
Empchild wrote:Honestly I am most shocked that this is still going on. 18 pages even, best publicity yet for chapterhouse.

Well, why be shocked? eveytime someone adds a post like (see above) the whole thread gets longer and longer.....thats math 101. Let the people enjoy their discussions, its what internet forums were created for......you don't HAVE to be a part of it if you don't want to.

Yaaaa was a joke, I have made my opinons, and I feel that CH is in the wrong on this one. Though I do think GW is being stupid with this it is their IP. The point though is really the same thing has been said over and over and over again.

**Gibbsey**

Dysartes wrote:
Gibbsey wrote:
Chapterhouse’s use of the Games Workshops trademarks, including without
limitation the marks WARHAMMER, WARHAMMER 40,000, 40K, SPACE MARINE,
CHAOS SPACE MARINES, ELDAR, ELDAR FARSEER, ELDAR JETBIKE, ELDAR
WARLOCK, ELDAR SEER COUNCIL, TYRANID, ADEPTUS MECHANICUS, BLOOD
ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, BLOOD RAVENS MARINES, IMPERIAL GUARD, BLACK
TEMPLARS, ALPHA LEGION, BONESWORD, CARNIFLEX, CRIMSON FISTS, FLESH
TEARERS, GENESTEALER, GAUNT, HERESY ARMOUR, HORUS HERESY, HOWLING
Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 1 Filed: 12/21/10 Page 11 of 19 PageID #:11 12
GRIFFONS, IRON HANDS, IMPERIAL FISTS, LASHWHIP, LEGION OF THE DAMNED,
LIGHTNING CLAW, LIONS RAMPANT, LUNA WOLVES, MANTIS WARRIORS, MK
ARMOUR, MYCETIC SPORE, RHINO, SALAMANDER, SONS OF RUSS, SOUL
DRINKER, SPACE WOLVES, STAR FOX, SWARMLORD, TECHMARINES, TAU,
THUNDER ARMOUR, THUNDER HAMMER, TERMAGANTS, TERVIGON, and YMGARL
(among others) are likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive.

Interestingly, a number of these don't appear on the lists published by GW on either their Copyright and Legal Information or Disclaimers and Trademark Lists pages.

As far as I could see, the following aren't on those lists. As I mentioned in my previous post, I know nothing about IP law/copyright or trademarks, so some of these may be covered somewhere else. Anyway, my lists of trademarks mentioned on that petition, but not specifically mentioned on the aforementioned pages:

WARHAMMER 40,000, 40K, CHAOS SPACE MARINES, ELDAR FARSEER, ELDAR JETBIKE, ELDAR WARLOCK, ELDAR SEER COUNCIL, ADEPTUS MECHANICUS, BLOOD RAVENS MARINES, IMPERIAL GUARD, BLACK TEMPLARS, ALPHA LEGION, BONESWORD, CARNIFLEX, CRIMSON FISTS, FLESH TEARERS, GAUNT, HERESY ARMOUR, HORUS HERESY, HOWLING GRIFFONS, IRON HANDS, IMPERIAL FISTS, LASHWHIP, LEGION OF THE DAMNED, LIGHTNING CLAW, LIONS RAMPANT, LUNA WOLVES, MANTIS WARRIORS, MK ARMOUR, MYCETIC SPORE, RHINO, SALAMANDER, SONS OF RUSS, SOUL DRINKER, SPACE WOLVES, STAR FOX, SWARMLORD, TECHMARINES, THUNDER ARMOUR, THUNDER HAMMER, TERMAGANTS, TERVIGON, and YMGARL

I'm most amused that Warhammer 40,000 and 40k aren't listed, though "Warhammer 40k Device" (which I guess means the logo) is.

They defiantly have Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000

**Mr Mystery**

derek wrote:I wonder if Nintendo knows that GW is trying to claim they own the rights/trademark to the term "Star Fox." Is it illegal to lie in a court filing?

In the UK, Starfox was renamed Starwing due to issues.

True story.

**Dysartes**

Gibbsey wrote:They defiantly have Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000

*snips quote tunnel*

Well, Gibbsey, I could find Warhammer on the lists, and I could find "Warhammer 40k device", and I could even find Warhammer Historical, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and Warhammer Online - but neither Warhammer 40,000 or Warhammer 40k - as terms, not devices - were anywhere to be seen.

Feel free to double-check, of course.

**RiTides**

Kanluwen wrote:
Similarly, at least 14 of the 15 items produced, marketed, and sold by Paulson
Games have been copied from (and infringe upon) Games Workshop’s copyrighted characters
and stories and sculptural works.

So even if the part about the "SAW" is wrong, they're still pointing towards him for the items he sells.

Yes, but if they're only going after him because what he sells is based on GW characters/stories (by sculptural works I'm guessing they mean a similar aesthetic?) then that's completely different than what they're going after CH for, which in large part seems to be due to their using GW names and pictures and linking them to their product.

Just selling a large wolf with a harness, for example, doesn't infringe on GW's IP at all, whether they have large wolves that are ridden in their games or not.

I think Paulson is going to get off scott-free, and those lawyers owe him an apology if anything... they certainly got it wrong about his being behind the super-heavy!

**Hulksmash**

He had pictures for a while on his sight showing tyrannid warriors w/bone swords and he might have named the dreadnought weapons blood talons for a bit. But I think the main reason Paulson is on the list is because of the upcoming furioso dread and possible thunderwolves sometime in the next year. Just my thought as there is no whisper of the TWC anytime soon.

**Heffling**

McNs wrote:
At the same time, if Chevy announces a new model of car (let's call it the Tervigon) for 2011 and gives its tech specs (i.e. - its "rules"), I can imagine a company getting in trouble for advertising a kit to "upgrade your 2010 Charger to a 2011 Tervigon". If the OEM manufacturer had simply said "upgrade kit for a 2010 Charger to add X horsepower, new radio, etc etc etc", they'd probably OK.

I know that's splitting hairs and doesn't feel especially honest at the street level, but that's my very, very basic understanding of the facts here. More informed legal opinions may give better mileage.

FWIW, its sad to see CH get hit, but I'm not terribly surprised.

Actually, the 1987 Pontiac Fiero was sold by dealers as a new car with an aftermarket body kit that was extremely similar to that of a Ferrari (The Fiero Meras). Ferrari sued Corporate Concepts and they had to stop producing the body kit. So while the analogy I introduced about aftermarket is good, there are examples that go both ways.

I'm not sad to see CH "get hit". I'm not happy about it either. I think they made very nice looking bits for certain armies, but I don't play one of those, and it doesn't really affect me.

What I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone bring up is the "60% GW" rule employed at official GW tournaments and painting/modeling competitions. That, to me, seems a clear cut indication that GW does expect you to use non-GW parts.

**filbert**

Heffling wrote:
What I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone bring up is the "60% GW" rule employed at official GW tournaments and painting/modeling competitions. That, to me, seems a clear cut indication that GW does expect you to use non-GW parts.

I wouldn't say that they expect non-GW conversion rather that they tolerate it. Emphasis being mine, of course...

**Chapterhouse**

Ian Sturrock wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:He meant your analogy is bad because it's not illegal for you to create your own conversions or even cast up your own crafted things for conversions for personal use.

GW's IP page is very, very unclear as to what's illegal and what's not, though, and the conversions part is probably the most schizophrenic part of the page, as many people have remarked on before:

"Conversions are a major aspect of the hobby, although in intellectual property terms, they also constitute a major infringement."

What does that mean, exactly? Far as I can tell, they're saying that despite encouraging their you to create new art with the stuff they sell you, they want you to recognise that doing so is technically illegal... plus, of course, they want to provide you with strict rules as to how you can and can't create new art, despite any new art you create being technically illegal. "It's OK to infringe our IP, as long as you do it this way." As soon as you say "It's OK to infringe our IP," though -- aren't you failing to defend your IP?

As others have pointed out, the problem here is that the situation isn't cut and dried. We can draw analogies from auto parts or the art world (the latter is more relevant, as far as I can see), but they're only analogies -- none of us can do much more than guess at which way the case will pan out.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Incidentally, while GW's IP page is a fascinating insight into the company, it won't necessarily stand up in court, and some aspects of it could potentially bite them in the ass in court.

It's fairly common for IP owners to make grandiose and sweeping claims as to what can and can't be done with their IP, and as to what precisely they do and don't claim ownership of, but whether a court will agree with them is quite another matter. Clearly GW think that bringing this case is strategically useful to them (whether to tie up Chapterhouse in red tape, or to actually win the case), but a ruling against them could render half the stuff on their Legal page irrelevant.

Guys,

I am POSITIVE about this piece, and it really has little effect on the case.

GW IP Policy page is not law. Please repeat after me.. it is not legal, or binding or if you break GWs rules will you go to jail.

Now saying that, they probably do point out some legal causes. But it basically is this.

"Hey now, lets put a web page on our site and call it the GW Legal Policy"
"Well um, wouldnt that confuse people, I mean it sounds really official, like it is the real law"
"Well, maybe it could happen that way, but we are not telling people it is really the law, we are just calling it GW Legal Policy, and saying what we really dont want people to do. Sure we make it sound all legal, but hey it could sacare off competition and make people think we have lots of rights we may not have."
"OH WOW THATS A GOOD IDEA!"

Again, there is some stuff on that page that will hold up in a court of law, but there is also stuff on there that has no standing in a court of law as well.

Any of you professional legal folks want to chime in on that one?

**malfred**

Chapterhouse wrote:
Any of you professional legal folks want to chime in on that one?

They probably don't, or will disclaimer it since they don't want anything they post on
the Internet to be taken as actual legal advice.

(I've read enough of Janthkin's posts to see how ti works with lawyers

)

**Empchild**

Nick, have you ever heard the term "don't poke the sleeping bears"?

**Chapterhouse**

Yeah, but I also have heard of "Stand up for what you believe in".

As long as it wont hurt you in court

Stating the basic facts that is out there for anyone to see, I dont think that will hurt me.

**Amaya**

GW's IP page is completely irrelevant. They do not make the laws.

Making products that can be used with 40k is completely legal.

Labeling them as Space Marines, slapping copyright icongraphy on them, stuff like that, is the problem.