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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The narrative player in me rebels at the very notion of 2-man Command Squads that only exist because GW split every character out into its own choice, even when doing so made zero sense (READ: Guard).

But thanks for the explanation. I can see why they're useful. I get it now.

I also get how eventually GW is going to change the Bodyguard rule so you can't put bodyguard units completely out of LOS whilst still providing that rule to in-LOS characters because that's stupid and clearly not what they intended, and how this is only the outcome of their shoddy ability to write coherent rules.



This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/10/21 01:35:54


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Sobie wrote:

I'm going off memory here but isn't it the difference in unit count that determines the effect though? For example if you have a 3 man squad of Eradicators, they will only benefit from +1 to hit when shooting at a unit of 8+ models? If that's the case, then against vehicles that count as 5 models you'll almost never benefit from the +1...unless it's one of those situations where you have multi-model vehicle squads (ork buggies )


Doh. Yea I totally read it wrong. 5 more models than your unit shooting. Bleh. So it'd basically never activate on vehicles. IF it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I also get how eventually GW is going to change the Bodyguard rule so you can't put bodyguard units completely out of LOS whilst still providing that rule to in-LOS characters because that's stupid and clearly not what they intended, and how this is only the outcome of their shoddy ability to write coherent rules.


Yea mine will go into reserves instead of bodyguarding most of the time. It gets really hard to screen out two bases.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/21 01:40:02


   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




Scoundrel80 wrote:
Sobie wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:Putting The Fist Back Into Imperial Fists


Platoon #1 - Forward Objective Holder

Primaris Chaplain on Bike - Warlord
- Master of Sanctity
- Reliquary of Gathalamor : this provides some measure of psychic defense without taking a psyker on a fast model
- Litanies - 5+++ vs MW / +1 to wound versus closest : this provides yet more psychic defense and amps up a unit to take oncoming units down fast
- Wise Orator
- Stubborn Heroism ( half damage ) : hopefully makes this guy a huge pain to put down

Primaris Apothecary
- Chief Apothecary
- Eye of Hypnoth
- Selfless Healer

10 Heavy Intercessors w/ Hellstorm ( the 3 shot assault version ), 2x Hellstorm HB

This platoon will make the most of durability to get up to objectives - running if necessary with the assault bolters. They're the obvious transhuman target, but also have +1sv vs 1D, +1sv from Bolster Defences, and +1sv for Shield Unwavering ( if warranted ). For 3 CP this means Wyches will occasionally take the save down to a 4+ and otherwise a 2+.

But they'll be up front and HI suck in combat, however, Shield Unwavering gives +1A. There is also Close-Range Bolter Fire where everything turns into a pistol.

Platoon #2 - Forward Objective Holder

Judiciar
- Adamantine Mantle : 5+++
5 BGV

This platoon takes up the other side hoofing it to any objective. The Judiciar will keep any dangerous melee from being a problem too quickly and he might be able to tank a Succubus on his own.

Platoon #3 - Rearguard

Phobos Captain
- Shoot and Fade

3 Eliminators, 3x Lasfusil
3 Eliminators, Bolt Carbine, 2x Bolt Sniper

These guys hold the backfield. The snipers along with the captain work hard with their exploding sniper rifles to take out key characters - especially with Admech. The Lasfusils try to make an early play in Devastator doctrine to put D4 into something dangerous and the Captain will fade them back into cover.

Platoon #4 - Secondary Taskforce

2 Company Vets, 1x SS, 1x Grav Pistol, 1x CS, 1x Meltagun
2 Company Vets, 1x SS, 1x Grav Pistol, 1x CS, 1x Meltagun
5 Infiltrators, Helix
3 Outriders
4 Servitors

These guys will help get Engage or ROD and/or support the front line.

Platoon #5 - Support

3 Suppressors
Gladiator Reaper, Auto, Icarus, Ironhail
5 Heavy Intercessors

These will go where ever they are needed. Gladiator puts a huge amount of Dakka bolstered even a bit more with some exploding 6s on the secondary guns. Suppressors try and make good in the Devastator doctrine.

Other Thoughts

IF ignores cover, which is fantastic, however, I feel like CF getting +1 to hit vs most units is pretty damn good and increases the mobility of heavy weapons on infantry. Is this worth the loss of ignore cover? Also for some reason Battlescribe is telling me I am taking too many relics in this scenarion even when using Champion of Blades - has anyone else had this issue?

Should I kick the Phobos Captain to the curb? If I did I get get Kantor for +1A to CORE or I could go for Lysander with his rare 3++ and no hit mod fist as well as his ability to turn off attrition. Both of these options make my HI unit feel like it has too many eggs in a basket though. Thoughts?


Chaplain - I think Armour indomitus for the +1W, 2+ save, 1 time 3++ would end up giving you more benefit across your match ups than the reliquary if you want a really hardy character. Between your opponent playing around the 18" range and the non-guarantee of the d3 wounds on fails, I think it will end up being mostly a non-factor. I like the 5+++ Litany if he's going to be babysitting Heavy Intercessors.

Phobos Capt - I'm not sure the Eliminators have the output to justify being babysat by the captain. I'd probably cut him. I also rarely have juicy turn 1 targets for my eliminators because everything is still deployed behind cover.

Secondary Task Force - I think you can strip a little bit of fat here. I'd drop the melta gun and the grav pistol from both company vets for a couple reasons. First, if I'm using them to score Engage points, they are going to be hiding in a corner somewhere trying to avoid attention. Second, if they are just for RoD, they aren't going to get to shoot anyway since they are spending the turn performing an action so you'll probably get one turn to get into a shooting position for a couple short range guns at best? Generally those company vets can make enough of nuisance of themselves from just tagging something versus dealing damage anyway.

Next cut I would consider is the servitors. Between the 5 man HI, infiltrators, couple of Company vets units, and the two eliminator squads I think you should have plenty of action monkey options floating around.
Don't forget that those phobos units can guerilla tactics into the opponent's quarters later in the game as well if needed so they can be both early game deepstrike screens and turn 4/5 ROD options.

The outriders are fine but the Blood Angel in me says trade them for 5 ss/lc van vets. 12" fly on infantry makes navigating terrain heavy boards much simpler and you'll have another unit as an optional action monkey. You'll lose the bolters which I guess is more of negative for IF then other chapters.

So cutting the phobos captain, streamlining the company vets and cutting the servitors gets me 155pts back. There are a few options I think would be interesting: 125 points for a whirlwind as another source of fights last, 150 pts for another 5 man lc/ss van vet squad or outrider squad, 2 melta attack bikes at 120pts for some fast anti-tank / Engage options, 150 pts for twin volkite contemptor...




Finally! I like minded Fists player. Im running crimson Fists and been trying to get the various rules to fit together in a meaningful Way since the start of ninth. Heres my post from a few weeks back about my current list and all my thoughts on the matter.

Spoiler:


Hi guys,

ok, so I know Crimson fists aren't that strong, but I love them and actually, they have some things going for them.

the flat 3 no minus to hit power fist, pedros obsec/+1a aura and exploding sixes on bolters are all great buffs. The +1 to hit vs hordes can come in handy and in this list (with will be vs necrons) I sort of try to abuse it a bit with the relic contemptors. It will probably only be for that first alpha vs his warrior blobs, but still. Its decent at least.

The plan is to run up with Pedro and 5x blade guards and camp on objectives. Assault intercessors and the vets can help with counter charges and backup. Creating a meatgrinder in the middle where I can take advantage of my buffs would be nice. The dreads, captain, lieutenant and a 2x5 intercessors camp backfield and provide firesupport. Inceptors, attack bikes, speeder and 2x5 intercessors score secondaries and try to get board dominance. The 3x eradicators are sort of the odd ones out here. guess they will just try to pick off a nice target.

Secondaries should be oath, engage and a third matchup dependent mostly, I guess.

Its fine if this can beat necrons, but actually my goal is a bit broader. I have an ongoing league coming up and id love to play crimson fists for that. The mini meta is: BA, sisters, DG, Eldar, Orcs, necrons, custodes and I've tried to build something a bit more all round due to that fact.


a few questions for review:

- Would 2x twin linked Heavy bolters (taking the bolter buffs of CF into account) be worthwhile on the dreads or are the volkites just better?

- do I need a tech marine to justify those two contemptors? I feel the +1 to hit chapter thingy should be enough. but im not sure.

- Should I go down to one dread and then buy what?

- when playing marines I usually always have a drop pod with either grav/melta devs or sternguard/company vets with meltas to take out one thing t1. this list doesn't have that feature and I guess the dreads have that role. is that a good call? I feel some consistant heavy fire from the back field is better in the long run, but the shock effect of having removed a key asset t1 is just so brutal often.

- I just love the 4x5 rifle intercessors. But I can't help thinking if they should be something else. Infiltrators maybe. any comments on that? also, stalkers on two of them would sort of make sense as they will be moving up the board. I just really like the bolt rifle profile better, honestly.

- 3x inceptors. hmm.. I always run 5 normally and I actually find them underwhelming. they kill someting and then just get slaughtered. I figured maybe 3 would make for a less appealing target. is this a crazy assessment?


heres the list:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Imperial Fists) [98 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists Successor

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Lieutenants [4 PL, 75pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Master-crafted power sword, The Vox Espiritum

Pedro Kantor [8 PL, 155pts]: Stoic Defender, Warlord

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 100pts]: The Fist of Vengeance
. Plasma Pistol and Power Fist: Power fist

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 150pts]: Jump Pack
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Inceptor Squad [7 PL, 120pts]: Assault bolter x2, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt

+ Dedicated Transport +

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]

++ Total: [98 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++


Thanks in advance for any comments.




I'd consider dropping an HQ for a techmarine if you are going to run double volkite contemptors. I think I think you are going to get more mileage from the +1 hit and his repair ability versus all sources of re-roll 1s. Don't forget that you can use the wisdom of the Ancients strat to re-roll 1s to hit or wound as well with the dreadnoughts. Really what you want from the dreads is for them push through tons of mortals.

Hmm I just looked at Kantor's datasheet. Hid Oath of Rynn +1 to hit Aura for core units standing next to the those contemptors could be filthy. If that's how you play it, the techmarine would be unnecessary.

I still think you are a little overloaded with with re-rolls auras vs some other interesting tech pieces that give you something like fight last, mortal wound protection, or invuln saves to make chewing through all those bodies more difficult.

I also do like the idea of swapping in at least one phobos troop unit for some sort of forward deploy/deep strike screen/guerilla tactics tool in the toolkit.
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sobie wrote:
I think the IF chapter tactic has broader applicability than the CF. As far as I understand it, the +1 to hit for CF is contingent on the target having 5+ models more than the unit shooting. A lot of armies seem to skew towards MSU lists these days so it seems hard to take advantage of consistently. Especially if you are going to run a big 10 man squad at midboard.


Well, the one nice thing about CF is that the +1 to hit always applies to vehicles since they "count" as 5 models.


what? how? they count as five models because if they didn't it would be way to easy to get the +1, right? so if your landraider shoots at ten guys, it gets the bonus. if it shoots at nine guys it doesn't.

At least thats my understanding. If vehicles get the bonus always, then there wouldn't be any reason to play anything but CF : )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:

Finally! I like minded Fists player. Im running crimson Fists and been trying to get the various rules to fit together in a meaningful Way since the start of ninth. Heres my post from a few weeks back about my current list and all my thoughts on the matter.


Huzzah!

I really like Kantor. Still mulling him and Lysander.

Heavy Bolters might have been gold before the IF nerf, but now they're risky. What you might find is that -1D will make them bite a lot less and since you're facing Orks and DG there's a good chance of that. Same thing for Volkites.


yeah, I agree on h-bolters. I dont think I have any in the list, do I? the volkites. I dont know, man, they just seem so good. but honestly im a bit in the dark on how to best use them. I se a lot of guys run them sans missiles and that doesn't work for me. I love the alpha potential if you can get a target t-1 consisting of 10 plus models. then you have 2d6 blast shots of s4 ap-1 (devastator doc) and 16 s6 ap-1 plus MWs from sixes. hitting on 2s probably rerolling. times 2 in my list. the rest of the game probably won't be that good but having acces to 2 krak shots gives then thing some nice flexibility that the non missile version doesn't have at least.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/21 08:12:15


 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




Scoundrel80 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sobie wrote:
I think the IF chapter tactic has broader applicability than the CF. As far as I understand it, the +1 to hit for CF is contingent on the target having 5+ models more than the unit shooting. A lot of armies seem to skew towards MSU lists these days so it seems hard to take advantage of consistently. Especially if you are going to run a big 10 man squad at midboard.


Well, the one nice thing about CF is that the +1 to hit always applies to vehicles since they "count" as 5 models.


what? how? they count as five models because if they didn't it would be way to easy to get the +1, right? so if your landraider shoots at ten guys, it gets the bonus. if it shoots at nine guys it doesn't.

At least thats my understanding. If vehicles get the bonus always, then there wouldn't be any reason to play anything but CF : )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:

Finally! I like minded Fists player. Im running crimson Fists and been trying to get the various rules to fit together in a meaningful Way since the start of ninth. Heres my post from a few weeks back about my current list and all my thoughts on the matter.


Huzzah!

I really like Kantor. Still mulling him and Lysander.

Heavy Bolters might have been gold before the IF nerf, but now they're risky. What you might find is that -1D will make them bite a lot less and since you're facing Orks and DG there's a good chance of that. Same thing for Volkites.


yeah, I agree on h-bolters. I dont think I have any in the list, do I? the volkites. I dont know, man, they just seem so good. but honestly im a bit in the dark on how to best use them. I se a lot of guys run them sans missiles and that doesn't work for me. I love the alpha potential if you can get a target t-1 consisting of 10 plus models. then you have 2d6 blast shots of s4 ap-1 (devastator doc) and 16 s6 ap-1 plus MWs from sixes. hitting on 2s probably rerolling. times 2 in my list. the rest of the game probably won't be that good but having acces to 2 krak shots gives then thing some nice flexibility that the non missile version doesn't have at least.



nice comments, man. love it!

i have since developed the list further and now run it like this. it is 3-0 so far vs necrons, orks and a very narrow game vs sisters.



++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Imperial Fists) [97 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists Successor

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Pedro Kantor [8 PL, 155pts]: Stoic Defender, Warlord

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 95pts]: Master-crafted power sword
. Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle, The Eye of Hypnoth, Hand of Dorn, The Vox Espiritum.

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Company Champion [4 PL, -1CP, 70pts]: Chapter Command: Chapter Champion,

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Inceptor Squad [7 PL, 120pts]: Assault bolter x2, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

Outrider Squad [6 PL, 150pts]: Outrider Sgt
. 2x Outrider: 2x Astartes Chainsword, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Twin Bolt rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt

+ Dedicated Transport +

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]

++ Total: [97 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++


So basically I cut the lieutenant and put eye of hypnoth on my second captain. He now guards and buffs the back field. I then cut the assault intercessors too. I miss them, but the list has enough melee, I think. And it got me the selfless healer app who now walks up the middle with Pedro and the blade guards. its just so good as we all know. he gets to res a bike here and there to so thats just splendid. I find that outriders are too expensive normally, but with the option to res, exploding sixes on rifles and a good chance to hit on 2s with the chapter buff they are worth their points.

For the first time in ninth I really feel im have a space marine list that is coming together really well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/21 08:29:07


 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

hey all.

I'm a new to marines player, just getting into deathwatch. I'm planning on getting some heavy intercessors as a backfield holder. I'm unsure which of the gun options to go for. My expected opponents are Necrons, Space wolves and Grey knights.

my thought process so far is trying to decided between the high damage, high AP but low shots option to try and one shot the marines I expect to be facing, or the high shots but low ap and damage assault bolter option to generate damage by sheer weight of fire. i cant really make my mind up which to go for. any opinions or experience with these about which is better?

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




xerxeskingofking wrote:
hey all.

I'm a new to marines player, just getting into deathwatch. I'm planning on getting some heavy intercessors as a backfield holder. I'm unsure which of the gun options to go for. My expected opponents are Necrons, Space wolves and Grey knights.

my thought process so far is trying to decided between the high damage, high AP but low shots option to try and one shot the marines I expect to be facing, or the high shots but low ap and damage assault bolter option to generate damage by sheer weight of fire. i cant really make my mind up which to go for. any opinions or experience with these about which is better?


I haven't yet ever used mine, but I gave them the assault bolters to keep them more mobile. I like the idea of them being a tougher than average midboard objective holder versus sitting in my backfield though. They are a lot of points spent for durability to babysit one of the lighter contested objectives on the board in my view.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






New Hampshire

Sobie wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
hey all.

I'm a new to marines player, just getting into deathwatch. I'm planning on getting some heavy intercessors as a backfield holder. I'm unsure which of the gun options to go for. My expected opponents are Necrons, Space wolves and Grey knights.

my thought process so far is trying to decided between the high damage, high AP but low shots option to try and one shot the marines I expect to be facing, or the high shots but low ap and damage assault bolter option to generate damage by sheer weight of fire. i cant really make my mind up which to go for. any opinions or experience with these about which is better?


I haven't yet ever used mine, but I gave them the assault bolters to keep them more mobile. I like the idea of them being a tougher than average midboard objective holder versus sitting in my backfield though. They are a lot of points spent for durability to babysit one of the lighter contested objectives on the board in my view.
Having not used them either, what about turn 1 running them up (maybe in a transport) to a spot where they can shoot at a couple of mid field objectives (hopefully from in cover)? They either take fire away from other units moving to hold said objectives so help clear them for other units to then take?

"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties" 
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




 Salted Diamond wrote:
Having not used them either, what about turn 1 running them up (maybe in a transport) to a spot where they can shoot at a couple of mid field objectives (hopefully from in cover)? They either take fire away from other units moving to hold said objectives so help clear them for other units to then take?


I'd skip the transport. Since they are Gravis units, I think only a Repulsor can fit them which is just a ton of points to invest. The benefit of the assault bolters is still being able to move them relatively quickly into the middle of the board as it's only 12" from deployment boundary line to get to the midway. 5+D6" should get you to an objective by end of Turn 2 unless you deploy very conservatively.

I think of them as something that you stick on a point and tell your opponent this objective is mine unless you devote some serious firepower that you you'd rather use on my threatening Van Vets or Redemptor. If you don't put them on an objective, there really isn't a compelling reason for your opponent to devote resources to take them off the board because they don't offer enough scary offensive firepower on their own to make them a priority target if they aren't scoring you primary points. The end result being that they are now neither acting as a bullet magnet to protect your other units nor are they racking up VP.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

How do people feel about the space wolfves captain on bike?

Chapter commander
2 lightning claws
Hunter
Beastslayer or Imperiums sword
Frost Weapons
150 points

Advance and stil charge gives a base movement of 20 before charging.

4 attacks base, 2 more with claws, 1 from shock assault. 1 attack from imperiums sword of beastslayer. That is 8 attacks, re-roll anything that is not a 6, try to fish for 6's. You can use 1 cp to put him in the assault doctrine if need be. 1 more CP for savage srtrike if you really need it.

It is a bit CP hungry. And he is a glass cannon. But I like how it has such a huge threath range to deal with what ever you do not like.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Anyone heard any rumors his the upcoming FAQ will change SMs? Especially any rumors about IF changes. I hear the IF super doctrine is changing again. Any rumored points drops?
   
Made in us
Armored Iron Breaker





Selling off my Primaris Space Wolves to have two armies: the Firstborn Space Wolves and the Primaris Greymanes. My general thinking is a list like this, something mechanized. Seeing as how it's all Firstborn, I don't expect it to be ideal.

The gameplan is as follows:

Characters and Grey Hunters go in the Razorbacks. Razorbacks deploy behind LOS-blocking terrain, Long Fangs do Cunning of the Wolf. Predators and Venerable Dread go where there's good firing lines. Turn 1, Razorbacks move out of cover and towards the midfield objectives while Predators and Ven Dread cover them. Turn 2, Long Fangs come in.

I made choices of Warlord Traits, powers, etc. based on how they were going to be used. I figured that while, say, Hunter is good for a footslogging list, it doesn't serve much purpose in a list that's mechanized.


Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [82 PL, 11CP, 1,480pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, -1CP, 90pts]: Frost Weapon, Master-crafted boltgun, Power axe, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord, Warrior Born

Chaplain [5 PL, 80pts]: 3. Exhortation of Rage, Bolt pistol

Librarian [5 PL, 90pts]: Murderous Hurricane, Instincts Awoken, Bolt pistol, Force axe

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 95pts]: 4x Astartes Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 95pts]: 4x Astartes Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 95pts]: 4x Astartes Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 135pts]: Assault cannon
. Great Wolf Claw w/Storm bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Long Fangs [7 PL, 130pts]
. Long Fang: Heavy bolter
. Long Fang: Heavy bolter
. Long Fang: Heavy bolter
. Long Fang: Heavy bolter
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword
. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol

Predator Annihilator [8 PL, 170pts]: Two Lascannons

Predator Annihilator [8 PL, 170pts]: Two Lascannons

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [6 PL, 110pts]: Twin heavy bolter

Razorback [6 PL, 110pts]: Twin heavy bolter

Razorback [6 PL, 110pts]: Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [82 PL, 11CP, 1,480pts] ++

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/03 17:17:29


Cruel men make cruel warriors make cruel lords. We need to be better.

-Roboute Guilliman
 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Jikes. My inissial thought is that you need more anti tank shooting weapons. I don't know where your 2000 point went. But that is not going to cut it.

You have so much anti infnatery! Heavy bolter razorback, Grey Hunters, heavy bolter long fangs, assault cannon venerable dreadnought. Even your characters are antininfantery.

Slap down some lascannons on this razorback if you can. Change the assault cannon to a multi melta. Give the captain a thunderhammer. (Or power fist.) Change frost weapon to Armour of russ. Give chaplain the chaplain weapon relic.

Remove the long fangs to pay for all of it.

That is my innisial thought. I have not run the numbers.


   
Made in hu
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey guys,

starting practice with my ultramarines. I have a lot of models, good knowledge of the game through IG, Custodes, and recently orks, but never got to wrap my head around marines.

I though of this list, could you please give me some pointers?

1000 points - Ultramarines patrol
Tigurius warlord with Null Zone, Scourge, Fortress
Primaris Captain with added adept of the codex and seal of oath
5 infiltrator
2*5 intercessor with ABR
3 BGV
1 redemptor with double gatling
3 eradicator with heavy melta

Idea is to castle up with tigurius, captain, dread, eradicators and intercessors, send BGV and infiltrators to midfield, keep captain for base defending countercharge.
   
 
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