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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Also, he doesn't get an invuln at all against the rail gun?He'd get a 2+ armor, with Plus 1 to the wound, minus 5 for the AP, so he'd still only survive the shot on a 6+?
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, he doesn't get an invuln at all against the rail gun?He'd get a 2+ armor, with Plus 1 to the wound, minus 5 for the AP, so he'd still only survive the shot on a 6+?
They're AP-6.

So at 3+ base, +1 for the strat, he'd need an 8 to save.

You need an effective 0+ save to have a save against a Railgun.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




 JNAProductions wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, he doesn't get an invuln at all against the rail gun?He'd get a 2+ armor, with Plus 1 to the wound, minus 5 for the AP, so he'd still only survive the shot on a 6+?
They're AP-6.

So at 3+ base, +1 for the strat, he'd need an 8 to save.

You need an effective 0+ save to have a save against a Railgun.



So my point is valid. You can't tank a HH shot with a gravis armor captain, no matter what you do.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, he doesn't get an invuln at all against the rail gun?He'd get a 2+ armor, with Plus 1 to the wound, minus 5 for the AP, so he'd still only survive the shot on a 6+?
They're AP-6.

So at 3+ base, +1 for the strat, he'd need an 8 to save.

You need an effective 0+ save to have a save against a Railgun.



So my point is valid. You can't tank a HH shot with a gravis armor captain, no matter what you do.
I mean, when you only take 1 damage from the main shot and an average of 2 from the Mortal Wounds... You can. Just not with a save.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

GW have announced that the new warzone nachmund book will have a generic space marine Army of Renown: the Vanguard Spearhead.


details discussed so far:

unit choice limited to PHOBOS keyworded units, Supressors, Invictor warsuits, and Implusors for transport.

Incursor, Infiltrator, and Reiver all have obsec.

instead of chapter tactics, they have "Vanguard Operations". Bonuses mentioned include:

Units count as being in light cover if they’re more than 18″ away.
6″ consolidation moves
and "they even get a bonus on hit rolls when firing from the hip" (whatever that means. maybe reivers get to advance and shoot with no penalty, or suppressors move and shot with no heavy penalty?)


new relics and strats for the force. the relics discussed are:

bolt weapon upgrade relic: one shot, but deals 2 mortal wounds on hit and -1 to attrition tests.

armour relic: 1-3 auto-fails to hit vs wearer, and advance and charge


strats:

sabotur explosive strat: 1 CP, used when you fall back on vehicle or monster. roll 1d6, 2-5 is d3 mortals, 6 is d6 mortals

marksman target tracker: 1 CP, tied to a TARGET TRACKER keyword, which seems to be for Incursors as its for occulus bolt carbines only (maybe a points upgrade for the unit, like helix gauntlet?), unit can ignore Look Out, Sir.




so, they definatly seem to be trying to boost reivers and incusors with the announced stuff. some of it looks cool, but it remains to be seen if this can work. You have to lock yourself out of a lot of marines meta choices to play this.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





That's almost literally what I have been building for a crusade force. I need to paint the wasuits still.
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




xerxeskingofking wrote:
GW have announced that the new warzone nachmund book will have a generic space marine Army of Renown: the Vanguard Spearhead.


details discussed so far:

unit choice limited to PHOBOS keyworded units, Supressors, Invictor warsuits, and Implusors for transport.

Incursor, Infiltrator, and Reiver all have obsec.

instead of chapter tactics, they have "Vanguard Operations". Bonuses mentioned include:

Units count as being in light cover if they’re more than 18″ away.
6″ consolidation moves
and "they even get a bonus on hit rolls when firing from the hip" (whatever that means. maybe reivers get to advance and shoot with no penalty, or suppressors move and shot with no heavy penalty?)


new relics and strats for the force. the relics discussed are:

bolt weapon upgrade relic: one shot, but deals 2 mortal wounds on hit and -1 to attrition tests.

armour relic: 1-3 auto-fails to hit vs wearer, and advance and charge


strats:

sabotur explosive strat: 1 CP, used when you fall back on vehicle or monster. roll 1d6, 2-5 is d3 mortals, 6 is d6 mortals

marksman target tracker: 1 CP, tied to a TARGET TRACKER keyword, which seems to be for Incursors as its for occulus bolt carbines only (maybe a points upgrade for the unit, like helix gauntlet?), unit can ignore Look Out, Sir.




so, they definatly seem to be trying to boost reivers and incusors with the announced stuff. some of it looks cool, but it remains to be seen if this can work. You have to lock yourself out of a lot of marines meta choices to play this.


Don't forsee this having any future in competitive play but I've seen enough folks interested in running all phobos for aesthetic reasons that may get a boost from it.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

That Vanguard Spearhead thing looks pretty meh, competitively. As far as being thematic for casual play, it is pretty cool though. You'll struggle against enemy armor with your only ranged AT being Eliminators with Las Fusils, though.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 4/26/22, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~18000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~5000
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1100 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~4300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2021: 114 | Total models painted in 2022: 18 | Current main painting project: Stormcast Eternals
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

Inspired by the rumoured Phobos Army of Renown...a battle report of a mostly Phobos army (Dec 2021)

My group has a Secret Santa tourney which is intended to be beginner friendly. Most of us bring off-the-wall lists. In 2019 I brought all Deathwing Terminators - how things have changed. This year I decided to bring a Phobos force, going for theme if not meme. I took a Phobos Captain, a Phobos Lieutenant (fear those twin combat knives!), Incursors, Infiltrators, Suppressors, Scouts, Reivers, Eliminators with Bolt Rifles and Eliminators with Las-Fusils. I was really excited about my Phobos Captain and his sniping ability - I even buffed him.

As we set up for the first game I realized that the small boards for an Incursion tourney were Bad-News-Bears for my infiltrating yet shooting army...

Game 1 vs Space Wolves. This one looked real bad at the end of turn 1. His wounded Redemptor and a squad of Assault Intercessors were in my lines. Somehow my Phobos Captain punched the crippled Redemptor to death. Booyah! The Suppressors did good work before dying. Dark Angels victory!

Game 2 vs Imperial Fists. This was my opponent's first game since 5th Ed. He had Tac Squads, a Land Raider, a Dread, a Terminator Captain dude and some Terminators. The Land Raider was a major problem, but it eventually died. My Phobos Captain heroically fell back from combat and shot Lysander in the face.

Game 3 vs Night Lords. He had Raptors, a Chaos Turkey, those Chain Cannon dudes and some cultists. My Phobos Captain, now named Master Flashman, boldly deployed forward. The Chaos Turkey flew over and nuked him Turn 1. I fell for the oldest trick in the book...hubris. My dudes scraped out some points but otherwise not my finest hour. Having said that, my Reivers came in and killed a big squad of Cultists over two rounds of melee and then killed a CSM squad. A little tear of pride fell. Reivers....Killed something!

Game 4 vs Orks. On an Incursion table this was like fighting in a phone booth. He was on me Turn 1 and while I took down lots of stuff it was a tough match for the boys in Dark Angels Green. Lets just say that Captain Flashman the Second did not survive. Or did he?

Bring on the Phobos Army of Renown!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/15 05:19:37


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Boosting Space Marine Biker





Quebec, Canada

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Inspired by the rumoured Phobos Army of Renown...a battle report of a mostly Phobos army (Dec 2021)

My group has a Secret Santa tourney which is intended to be beginner friendly. Most of us bring off-the-wall lists. In 2019 I brought all Deathwing Terminators - how things have changed. This year I decided to bring a Phobos force, going for theme if not meme. I took a Phobos Captain, a Phobos Lieutenant (fear those twin combat knives!), Incursors, Infiltrators, Suppressors, Scouts, Reivers, Eliminators with Bolt Rifles and Eliminators with Las-Fusils. I was really excited about my Phobos Captain and his sniping ability - I even buffed him.

As we set up for the first game I realized that the small boards for an Incursion tourney were Bad-News-Bears for my infiltrating yet shooting army...

Game 1 vs Space Wolves. This one looked real bad at the end of turn 1. His wounded Redemptor and a squad of Assault Intercessors were in my lines. Somehow my Phobos Captain punched the crippled Redemptor to death. Booyah! The Suppressors did good work before dying. Dark Angels victory!

Game 2 vs Imperial Fists. This was my opponent's first game since 5th Ed. He had Tac Squads, a Land Raider, a Dread, a Terminator Captain dude and some Terminators. The Land Raider was a major problem, but it eventually died. My Phobos Captain heroically fell back from combat and shot Lysander in the face.

Game 3 vs Night Lords. He had Raptors, a Chaos Turkey, those Chain Cannon dudes and some cultists. My Phobos Captain, now named Master Flashman, boldly deployed forward. The Chaos Turkey flew over and nuked him Turn 1. I fell for the oldest trick in the book...hubris. My dudes scraped out some points but otherwise not my finest hour. Having said that, my Reivers came in and killed a big squad of Cultists over two rounds of melee and then killed a CSM squad. A little tear of pride fell. Reivers....Killed something!

Game 4 vs Orks. On an Incursion table this was like fighting in a phone booth. He was on me Turn 1 and while I took down lots of stuff it was a tough match for the boys in Dark Angels Green. Lets just say that Captain Flashman the Second did not survive. Or did he?

Bring on the Phobos Army of Renown!


I'm very enthusiast for the new Vanguard AoR myself. I'm not very familiar with Dark Angels strats, relics and WL traits. Do they mesh well with an all Phobos army? Were you able to mitigate some of the weaknesses of such armies, mainly killing power at range and CC?

Praise the emperor, bless your weapon and pass the ammo!

Armies played:  
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

I wouldn’t say that Dark Angels mesh better with Phobos than other Chapters, although the +1 to hit in melee when charged came in handy during some of fur-balls that occurred mid table. The Surpressors also took advantage of them SM Strat to count as stationary (jumping out from behind Obscuring). They then hit on a 2+ due to the DA Chapter tactic. Expensive in CP, but effective.

An Invictor Warsuit would have helped - I took a look at the preview on WHC Andrew it looks like a fun list.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

so, i have a decision to make in the near-ish future and i would like your input:

Im planning on getting the base marine combat patrol box, mainly because I'm planning to run a spectrus kill team with eliminators in it, and for relitively little more (£20 ish), i can get the parts i need for that, PLUS the impossible to get elsewhere supressors, a LT and implusor.


my question relates to the implusor and the loadout options for it. Im planning to stick the iornhail stubber on it with storm bolters for the side guns, but im not sure what would be best on the "rear" mount.

options, and my thoughts so far, are:

orbital comms array: seems rather underwhelming, a one shot trick for a few mortal wounds, frankly it would have been better as a stratagem

Ironhail skytalon array: twin linked stubber with +1 to aircraft? 3.4 rotogens, not great, not terrible for 10 points.

shield dome: a 5++ save is nice, i suppose, but given the prolifteration of MW and ignores invul tricks these days, it might not be worth that much.

Bellicatus missle array: agian, 3.4 rotogens, but 20 points is a bit steep for a what amounts to a the same weapon i can get on a tac marine for 15 points with a sometimes useful anti air trick.

no rear mount: always an option, as its a transport, not a tank, but seems a bit of a waste.


Its still hypotheical for me at the moment, as I neither have the implusor kit, nor do i really have a clear role for it when i get it, given most of my current deathwatch army cant ride in it.

so, what do you guys put on your implusors, if anything?

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Impulsors don't see a whole lot of use in general. I guess if I was running one I would probably give it the shield dome. If you want a way to deal damage you're looking at the wrong vehicle. The impulsor has only one job and that is to move up the board and survive. Shield Dome seems like the obvious choice for that.
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




Agreed. Go with the Shield Dome. The threat of ignore invuln weapons isn't really an issue. If anything, we want them to be used on the impulsor versus other more valuable targets like a relic contemptor.

You really just need to get a T1 move and act like a bullet sponge for something like Bladeguard for a turn. Anything else is bonus.

Bladeguard and Hellblasters (for the assault vehicle rule) are the only units that I can see any merit in putting in an impulsor but it's a pricey option for both.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




So speaking of Impulsors, I'm currently writing up a Black Templar list and I'm definitely looking for advice! Keep in mind there are more comical choices in it (mostly the Chapter Master I got in it) but let's get started.

Spoiler:

HQ:
×1 Chapter Master in Terminator Armor
. Breath of the Throne, Thunder Hammer
. Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve
. Heir of Sigismund: Frontline Commander
×1 Master of Sanctity
. Jump Pack, Relic of the Chapter: Benediction of Fury
. Hero of the Chapter: Champion of Humanity or Wise Orator???
. Litanies: Mantra Of Strength, Canticle of Hate
×1 Emperors Champion???
. Hero of the Chapter: Paragon of Fury

Troop:
×5 Assault Intercessors
. Power Fist
×5 Assault Intercessors
. Power Fist
×5 Assault Intercessors
. Power Fist
×5 Assault Intercessors
. Power Fist

Elite:
×5 Aggressors
. Boltstorm Gauntlets
×5 Aggressors
. Boltstorm Gauntlets
×5 Bladeguard Veterans
. Revered Repositories: Sword of Judgment
. Champion of the Feast
. The Crux Obsidian or Icon of Heinmann???
×5 Vanguard Veterans
. Jump Packs
. Four Vets with 2 Chainswords
. Sergeant with Fist of Balthus, Storm Shield
×1 Chief Apothecary
. Relic of the Chapter: Teeth of Terra

Fast Attack:
×1 Attack Bike
. Multi-Melta
×1 Attack Bike
. Multi-Melta
×1 Attack Bike
. Multi-Melta

Dedicated Transport:
×1 Impulsor
. Storm Bolters, Shield Dome

1998 points total

The list is pretty straight forward. Emperors Champ rides with the Bladeguard, killy Apothecary advances with the Aggressors keeping them alive, Chappy + Vanguard is a Character or large target killer, and Chapter Master is in reserves and pops next to the Aggressors or Bladeguard depending which needs it most (or which is safer). Assault Intercessors run wherever as do the Attack Bikes. I have some questions though:
1. Is the Champ even that necessary for the list? He's fun, but with the Chap and Vanguard do I really need him?
2. For the Chap, is Wise Orator for the consistent Litanies better than just being better at character killing?
3. For the Bladeguard, I have a tough time choosing between those two Relic Bearer items. Both work well obviously, but what are people leaning towards?
4. While nobody plays Black Templars for the shooting, I still wanted that element via Attack Bikes and the Aggressors. Is that actually ENOUGH shooting though? Even with the Vanguard and Chap + Attack Bikes, I feel lacking in the anti-tank department.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

Hey everyone,

I was recently thinking of starting a Salamanders army and noticed that there doesn't seem to be 9th edition 40k rules for their unique units "Pyroclasts" and "Firedrakes".

What gives? Am I just not finding them?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They're HH only.

Firedrakes!
Pyroclasts!

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




hi guys, im getting back to my crimson fists, yeah I know. They're really bad. I just think of them as vanilla marines with exploding sixes on bolters and thats it.

so my question is; What are the basics of the current marine meta?

I've been playing my custodes for some months now. back when I put my marines on a hiatus it was basically dreadnaughts. is there are more balanced build out there now? nachmund seems to dictate more infantry. Also, obsec seems extra ok now with some of the objectives and my chapter master has an aura of that, so maybe theres something there. He is rather pricey though.

so can the poster boys hang these days?
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




is there an "optimal build" for the primaries chappie on bike theses days? There used to be a bufflain and a smashlain archetype.

Also, when I build my white scars smash chaplain with the super crocius I can only get him to 8 (4 base, 1 for shock assault, d3 for chogorian storm, 1 for the mantra litany) 8 (counting 2 on CS) attacks. I believe he used to be 10 attacks, iirc. what am I missing?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




It's tough. I'm your Imperial Fists brother, so I feel the pain.

Many marine players rely heavily on their special units, Sang Guard, Deathwing Terminators, Hellbrecht, etc. Unfortunately that doesn't work for us.

Another staple is the Volkite Contemptor from forgeworld. 2 or 3 is not uncommon, but I sort of have a thing against Forgeworld and I think it isn't too rare to not want to use FW... If you're fine with FW that's a good place to start, if not we're moving on to the Codex units.

HQs: A lot of people are running a smash chaplain, usually on bike with mantra of strength and benediction of fury. Not much to say, he's fast, he's a beatstick. Chaplains are really good pretty much any way you run them.

Troops: Incursors are really hot right now. They play really well into the current meta. 1 squad of 5 just to help get you RND does a lot of work for very little investment. Some like Infiltrators but I say that Incursors do the same job for cheaper. I would really suggest that 1 squad of 5 incursors, even if you do end up running a Vanguard detachment (which a lot of people do).

Elites: Elites tend to be where Marines spend a lot of their points. I already mentioned Volkite Contemptors, but Redemptor dreads are also excellent units. Agressors can be good with Fists, Bladeguard Veterans are really popular for a strong combat unit. Vanguard Veterans are also popular with their jump packs. I still run the Apothecary and give him the Vox Espiritum for the 6" feel no pain aura, but a lot of other space marine players have moved away from that. As I mentioned earlier a lot of marines are using a Vanguard detachment so they can spend more of their points here.

Fast: Attack bikes with meltas are the weapon of choice here. A really good unit. Most of the other fast choices are a bit weaker.

Heavy: Eradicators are still very meta, the heavy melta rifles rising in popularity; although the regular melta rifle is still popular. They're the best and most efficient anti-vehicle that SM have access to by far. For other heavies I like the whirlwind a lot; an absolute dumpster fire of a unit with a fantastic stratagem. But the fact of the matter is that for a CP and 125 points this embarrassment of an indirect fire piece can still save the game for you. My other heavy pick is Eliminators. Now I quite like these guys with Fists when using the Bolt Sniper rifles. 6s doing extra hits can put in some work when you are using this weapon. If you happen to spike dice at a critical moment, you can easily wipe out an opponents character. They also have their camo cloaks which makes them very hard to kill with shooting attacks, they have the very handy Concealed Positions rule, and they are one of the cheapest units that you can field. Even if your opponent hides all their characters well they can still perform for you by holding objectives, and their choice of either mortis or hyperfrag rounds makes them very good for clearing either heavy infantry or chaff infantry in addition to their anti-character role. Can't recommend these guys enough, I have been using 2 squads. The only annoyance is that if you do this you fill your heavy support slots very quickly, so you'll have to make some choices.

I think you'll find that a dread heavy meta is still very popular, but there are some more infantry based choices now. As far as how they do competitively.... not very well I'm afraid. Crimson fists and Imperial Fists are consistently among the lowest ranked armies in tourneys. Typically we're down at the very bottom with the Imperial Guard.
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




apogats wrote:
It's tough. I'm your Imperial Fists brother, so I feel the pain.
(..)
I think you'll find that a dread heavy meta is still very popular, but there are some more infantry based choices now. As far as how they do competitively.... not very well I'm afraid. Crimson fists and Imperial Fists are consistently among the lowest ranked armies in tourneys. Typically we're down at the very bottom with the Imperial Guard.



apogats, thank you so much for that breakdown. it was exactly what I hoped for. And sadly, exactly how things where back when I left. I dont mind, though. I love playing my fists, and I get wins in too. Its brutal though, and you have to fight for every inch. this is my current list.

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Imperial Fists) [103 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists Successor

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Champion of Blades [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Pedro Kantor [8 PL, 155pts]: Stoic Defender, Warlord

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 90pts]: The Eye of Hypnoth
. Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle

Techmarine [5 PL, 90pts]: Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Master of the Forge, Omnissian power axe, Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 195pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: 2x Twin volkite culverin

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: 2x Twin volkite culverin

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Inceptor Squad [14 PL, 160pts]: Assault bolter x2, 3x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

+ Dedicated Transport +

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]

++ Total: [103 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++




It used to be a selfless healer, missiles on the forge world dreads and an outrider squad instead of the 2 infiltrator squads. The apothecary is just so good and the bikes always were champs for me with 12 shots and exploding sixes. They would often flank and then join Kantor in the middle if they lived. They combed well with the apothecary too. but with nachmund I feel the infiltrators are needed and with them taking the board early I don't really miss the outriders, and therefore the apo seemed less relevant too. could be incursions, but I feel the infiltrators 12 inch deny deepstrike aura will help me a lot. Idk if this is better. We will have to see.

I basically castle the dreads/techie/captain with eye of hypnoth and shoot from the back line wth those guys while Pedro (he grants obsec), the blade guards and some chaff take the center to score primaries and oath. The attack bikes can pop out and delete an important target. they often die afterwards and I guess with out the apothecary they will die even faster. The land speeder storm was good at some point and I will be doing engage quite often, I think, so I think ill keep it in for now. If I could scrap it and find 50 points more I could get the apothecary back, though.

- i was always hyped for bolt rifles over autos but I see that every one and their mom is running the assault version now. should I swop too? They do seem good with exploding sixes. I just love that ap-2 on the doctrine.
- idk if those 5 blade guards are worth anything in the center field now the apothecary is not with them. how could I support them?
- should I scrap the speeder and go missiles on both relic contemptors? I dont love paying that much for those two robots, but 4 extra krak missiles would help mitigate the lists lack of firepower.

I feel the list is well rounded and has some scoring potential. It can lay down mediocre fire too, but it lacks serious punch. Any oppinions?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/13 09:22:45


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




If you are looking at Engage then the LS Storm might still be relevant. If you dont pick that secondary it is sort of a waste. I'll talk about secondaries here in a minute.

Your basic plan seems like a good one. You might be able to drop some Intercessors since you dont need them to fill your battalion and save some points for some other option. Um.. however, since you asked about the loadout... Turns out that that is sort of a particular interest of mine, so you're getting more than you bargained for!

It's actually ridiculous how close the Stalker, Standard, and Auto Bolt Rifles are in damage output. I mean frankly it's insane how balanced they are against one another. This remains true even when exploding 6s are taken into account.
Their damage output is almost spot on identical... kind of.

That is to say that it *would* be almost identical as long as you were "using" all of the stats all the time. So for example if you fire the 2 damage stalker at a 1w model, you are wasting damage output. If you fire an AP -2 shot at a unit that only has a 6+ save, you waste damage output. If your ap -2 puts them on their INV save but ap -1 would have also put them on their INV save, you waste damage output. So it turns out that the Auto Bolt Rifles are the least likely to waste damage output in this way. They basically start even with the Standard Bolt Rifles and the Stalker Bolt Rifles, but those weapons are often presented with sub-optimal targets where the ABR pretty much always gets its maximum potential damage output. For this reason and also the usefulness of being able to Advance and shoot at a -1 penalty, the ABR is preferred.

The bladeguard in the center might be a bit dicey. You can try it. If there's a nice big fat piece of obscuring terrain in the center you're probably ok. But if not... could be a problem. This is one reason I'm a little uncertain about Oaths of Moment. It's a staple of marine play, but it can backfire. If you watch the TableTop Titans youtube channel, check out the recent Ultramarines vs. Sisters of Battle (Bloody Rose) if you are in need of a good cry. Long story short by trying to score Oath the Ultramarines throw away a pricey unit, give the Sisters extra charge move, allowed them to tag into the rest of their army, lost a dreadnaught in the process, and STILL DIDNT SCORE THE OATH POINTS.

So I really think you need to do some deep consideration as to whether or not you want Oath. It's not as safe of a secondary as some players are making it out to be.

Engage on All Fronts, Stranglehold, and Retrieve Nachmund Data, are all good secondaries. I often end up taking one secondary based on my opponents army, and very often this is No Prisoners. I ususally score more on No Prisoners than I do with Oath, and this comes at monumentally less risk.

Another interesting secondary is Mental Interrogation. I havent tried this myself, but I saw a very persuasive post about including one 60 pt Inquisitor in your list so that you can score Mental Interrogation very easily. I havent had the opportunity to try it but I'm convinced it's worth a shot.

Finally if you feel you lack serious firepower, try to include another squad of attack bikes or Eradicators in the list. I think you could probably afford them if you dropped some troops and maybe the storm speeder. I would probably opt for this route over just some extra missiles on the Contemptors.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/13 17:52:39


 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




yeah, all good points. I could probably cut back on troops and be more elite. my old list that I mentioned was like that with the apothecary and the bikes (should prolly be something else).

I did see the TTT matchup and it was brutal. I will say, though, jon is not a very good marine player, Imo, and he could have done better. that said, the matchup isn't in his favor either. Bloody rose is one thing, but an optimized argent shroud list that advance+1 and shoots 40-50 multimelta shots with a reroll for hits and wounds plus miracle die for blowing up those dreads just obliterates that UM list, id say.

I kind of hate not being dialed in on a SM list right now. BTW feel free to post your IF list on here : )
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Oh dear...

That's basically every First Born Captain - including the one with all the weapon options - Chaplains with Jump Packs, First Born Techmarine (and his Servitors) and even the plastic Terminator Librarian.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh dear...

That's basically every First Born Captain - including the one with all the weapon options - Chaplains with Jump Packs, First Born Techmarine (and his Servitors) and even the plastic Terminator Librarian.


Gutting the old range pretty hard.

It looks like the box with the techmarine and the servitors is still there, you just wont be able to get them separate.

Firstborn Lib and chap still there, but are there any non-named captains left?

   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 Nevelon wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh dear...

That's basically every First Born Captain - including the one with all the weapon options - Chaplains with Jump Packs, First Born Techmarine (and his Servitors) and even the plastic Terminator Librarian.


Gutting the old range pretty hard.

It looks like the box with the techmarine and the servitors is still there, you just wont be able to get them separate.

Firstborn Lib and chap still there, but are there any non-named captains left?

I was going to say you can still make a Captain with the Space Marine Commander kit... then I saw that it was among the Last Chance items. Which sucks, because that kit is awesome even just as a grab bag for bits.

I wonder if sales (or rather, lack thereof) is driving this? I can't imagine they sell very many of the Armor Through The Ages set, for example. Of course, this could actually be leading up to the inevitable move of all the non-Primaris stuff to Legends.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 4/26/22, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~18000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~5000
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1100 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~4300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2021: 114 | Total models painted in 2022: 18 | Current main painting project: Stormcast Eternals
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

before we get TOO alarmist, this could be a SKU change for some complicated background/logistic reason. we got a pretty obvious announcement before they "rotated" the marine characters earlier this year, so i doubt its a real "last chance for ever!" type situation, just maybe a "retirement" of that specific SKU for them, and when they print off a new batch in 2 months they will bring them back out.

hell, it could be a stock simplification to ease ongoing issues with shipping, and once/if the world settles into a new normal they will get them back out.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They wouldn't be on "Last Chance". They'd just be out of stock like everything goes before a rebox.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh dear...

That's basically every First Born Captain - including the one with all the weapon options - Chaplains with Jump Packs, First Born Techmarine (and his Servitors) and even the plastic Terminator Librarian.


Typical GW. I regret my decision to not give them any money less and less.
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

yhea, i stand corrected, this is the 2nd leg of the rotation, they accounced it as such on Sunday. shame. also shifting the land speeder Tempest off as well, which is also a shame as i was planning on getting one soon, but cant really stump up the cash for it before it disappears. double shame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just spotted an odd one, but you can still get the "deathwatch terminator captain", which is a standard firstborn termie cap with a deathwatch upgrade sprue thrown in, and its not on rotation, oddly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/21 20:47:58


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
 
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